UK Politics Thread

[Mary]

Interesting. My own vibe about him was that he just seemed untrustworthy. I'm not just saying that because he's Labour (plenty of Tories give me that vibe too)... but I got the impression that he'd sell his own granny to further his career... and take the fake moral high ground in the process.

I think you are spot on there!

 

[britbox]

I've been following the campaigns from afar @Mary and the Conservatives have run a pretty poor one, they don't seem to have got much of a message through. Still think they will win comfortably but Corbyn has campaigned well. Don't think any of his sums add up and that there would be a massive flight of capital out of the UK but he's electioneered a lot better than May.

 

[Mary]

I've been following the campaigns from afar @Mary and the Conservatives have run a pretty poor one, they don't seem to have got much of a message through. Still think they will win comfortably but Corbyn has campaigned well. Don't think any of his sums add up and that there would be a massive flight of capital out of the UK but he's electioneered a lot better than May.

The manifesto is fully costed, I've seen it. Members were consulted on it too. None of the Tory proposals are costed at all. When you look at Tory proposals socially they are dreadful, Dementia tax, loss of heating payments, death of the NHS, end of free school meals, money away from schools, they're better not getting those messages through! And when May makes the cost of a child's breakfast 7p and Hammond forgets 20 billion of the cost of HS2.....

Every Tory interview has looked inept, especially the defence guy and Amber Rudd. And the attempts to show Corbyn as a terrorist supporter are disgraceful. May is pathetic. Incidentally the insurance packages to be forced on homeowners as part of the dementia tax are prepared by Legal and General. Guess who will make a major killing! Mr May of course!

Did you see Paxman take May apart on TV yesterday? Even the Times couldn't give her a good write up!

PS And bring back fox hunting! They would make England a playground for rich people and sod the rest of us!

 

[britbox]

I saw the Paxman interviews with both. I don't think she performed particularly well, but she held up her hand to things she'd said and done. I didn't think Paxman conducted it very well to be honest, he's become a caricature of himself. I prefer Andrew Marr and Andrew Neil, and I used to like John Humphrys on the radio.

The Labour manifesto is costed in a tax bubble - if you change the rules on taxation, then the people paying the tax change the way they operate. The Labour manifesto seems to think if you add 5% tax on, then you'll get 5% extra... it never works like that. When the tax rate on some of the higher earners varied between 50 and 45% the difference was negligible - in fact if I remember rightly, they may have even raised more revenue with the lower figure.

With Brexit on the horizon, Britain needs to be competitive for business and investment. Raising taxes on corporates isn't going to help, particularly when you see the US and France cutting theirs.

Not only that, he's going to increase wages and subsequently costs... so...

My main question to Corbyn would be...

How are you going to encourage private investment when you are creating a less competitive product?

I see a flight of capital and big drop in investment. Governments only spend other people's money and if they aren't present to be taxed on it then the tap runs dry and they'l end up borrowing heavily, throwing even more debt on future generations.

Many of these billionaires, Corby fancies taxing aren't British - just look at the Times Rich List... They might just pack their bags and leave.

I agree, some social injustices need to be addressed, but scaring away the people that ultimately pay the bills, isn't the way to do it. The top 1% of the richest people in the UK pay about 28% of the entire countries income tax already...

On costings... I didn't see any costings for the re-nationalisation of water, mail, energy and rail... things he's said he's going to do... I agree that they should never have been privatised in the first place, but the cost of re-nationalising them would be astronomical.

 

[Mary]

I saw the Paxman interviews with both. I don't think she performed particularly well, but she held up her hand to things she'd said and done. I didn't think Paxman conducted it very well to be honest, he's become a caricature of himself. I prefer Andrew Marr and Andrew Neil, and I used to like John Humphrys on the radio.

The Labour manifesto is costed in a tax bubble - if you change the rules on taxation, then the people paying the tax change the way they operate. The Labour manifesto seems to think if you add 5% tax on, then you'll get 5% extra... it never works like that. When the tax rate on some of the higher earners varied between 50 and 45% the difference was negligible - in fact if I remember rightly, they may have even raised more revenue with the lower figure.

With Brexit on the horizon, Britain needs to be competitive for business and investment. Raising taxes on corporates isn't going to help, particularly when you see the US and France cutting theirs.

Not only that, he's going to increase wages and subsequently costs... so...

My main question to Corbyn would be...

How are you going to encourage private investment when you are creating a less competitive product?

I see a flight of capital and big drop in investment. Governments only spend other people's money and if they aren't present to be taxed on it then the tap runs dry and they'l end up borrowing heavily, throwing even more debt on future generations.

Many of these billionaires, Corby fancies taxing aren't British - just look at the Times Rich List... They might just pack their bags and leave.

I agree, some social injustices need to be addressed, but scaring away the people that ultimately pay the bills, isn't the way to do it. The top 1% of the richest people in the UK pay about 28% of the entire countries income tax already...

On costings... I didn't see any costings for the re-nationalisation of water, mail, energy and rail... things he's said he's going to do... I agree that they should never have been privatised in the first place, but the cost of re-nationalising them would be astronomical.

We could argue the toss for weeks and neither of us would change our minds.But debt and borrowing are worse under the Tories than they were under labour.
The reality is that I and millions like me I don't want to live in a country where working people depend on food banks and people with disabilities are asked if they have considered suicide when they are interviewed about their benefits as part of a policy which costs more to run than it saves. And this government is corrupt and inept. What ever the result this election has shown up the Tories in a big way. My current MP who is retiring now and not standing again told me that most senior Tories see the campaign as a disaster and that it's done untold damage tongue party. I hope he is right.

 

[britbox]

We could argue the toss for weeks and neither of us would change our minds.But debt and borrowing are worse under the Tories than they were under labour.
The reality is that I and millions like me I don't want to live in a country where working people depend on food banks and people with disabilities are asked if they have considered suicide when they are interviewed about their benefits as part of a policy which costs more to run than it saves. And this government is corrupt and inept. What ever the result this election has shown up the Tories in a big way. My current MP who is retiring now and not standing again told me that most senior Tories see the campaign as a disaster and that it's done untold damage tongue party. I hope he is right.

I see Prescott tweeted the same about senior Tories being concerned about the shambolic campaign. Will have to agree to disagree on the rest.

I would prefer a lot of things, but with the advent of globalisation, I'm thinking this is roughly as good as it's going to be be going forward... and Corbyn would leave a disastrous legacy. Listen... I agree that everything he says, sounds nice, kind, and fair.... I get it... and he's riding the crest of a positive message for many. I just think it's totally impractical and the side effects of implementing his policies would wreck the economy for years.

 

[Mary]

Nothing wrong with healthy disagreement. And you are discussing with a diehard leftwinger! We have more in common than you might think. We both want to see a healthy economy, both recognise social injustice, both have an active interest. Our differences lie in deciding how to move forward and we would need a few evenings and a few drinks is to sort that out.

Interesting to think about what next though. My guess is a hung pmt, May challenged for leadership, Labour still to split because a divided labour vote in a hung parliament would be horrendous.

 

[britbox]

Nothing wrong with healthy disagreement. And you are discussing with a diehard leftwinger! We have more in common than you might think. We both want to see a healthy economy, both recognise social injustice, both have an active interest. Our differences lie in deciding how to move forward and we would need a few evenings and a few drinks is to sort that out.

Interesting to think about what next though. My guess is a hung pmt, May challenged for leadership, Labour still to split because a divided labour vote in a hung parliament would be horrendous.

I still think the Tories will win. Not enough young people will get out and vote as per usual. With Labour decimated in Scotland, Labour as it stands won't win outright power again for the foreseeable future. I also expect a stronger conservative campaign in the final days - people don't like arrogant complacency - and a lot of members who originally expected a landslide victory will have had a rocket up their arse... and no doubt about it, this has been a shambolic campaign so far. They made another big mistake on not doing the leaders debates.

I think the Conservatives might actually pick up a few seats in Scotland at the expense of the SNP. I think the SNP have pissed a lot of people off by continuing to harp on about a second referendum, forgetting that most Scots voted against them anyway... and half-forgetting that they are also being judged on the governance rather than being the nationalist and protest vote of yesteryear.

The Tories will still win outright. The UKIP voters will, in the main go back - UKIP are a busted flush. Paul Nuttall is hopeless, lacking any of the charisma Farage had. Like or loathe him (and I guess you are in the latter camp), at least it seemed Farage was genuine when he spoke. Nuttall comes across as one of those ex-BNP types in a suit. I think Labour will have some wins on the night - places like Wirral West - those type of knife-edge swing seats, but not enough of them...

Just been watching George Galloway saying he is the real Labour candidate in Manchester Gorton. The official candidate is Afzal Khan.

 

[Mary]

I still think the Tories will win. Not enough young people will get out and vote as per usual. With Labour decimated in Scotland, Labour as it stands won't win outright power again for the foreseeable future. I also expect a stronger conservative campaign in the final days - people don't like arrogant complacency - and a lot of members who originally expected a landslide victory will have had a rocket up their arse... and no doubt about it, this has been a shambolic campaign so far. They made another big mistake on not doing the leaders debates.

I think the Conservatives might actually pick up a few seats in Scotland at the expense of the SNP. I think the SNP have pissed a lot of people off by continuing to harp on about a second referendum, forgetting that most Scots voted against them anyway... and half-forgetting that they are also being judged on the governance rather than being the nationalist and protest vote of yesteryear.

The Tories will still win outright. The UKIP voters will, in the main go back - UKIP are a busted flush. Paul Nuttall is hopeless, lacking any of the charisma Farage had. Like or loathe him (and I guess you are in the latter camp), at least it seemed Farage was genuine when he spoke. Nuttall comes across as one of those ex-BNP types in a suit. I think Labour will have some wins on the night - places like Wirral West - those type of knife-edge swing seats, but not enough of them...

Just been watching George Galloway saying he is the real Labour candidate in Manchester Gorton. The official candidate is Afzal Khan.

Not long to wait and see! Is Galloway drunk???

 

[Federberg]

David Cameron must be pissing himself laughing

 

[Nekro]

lol Becky Anderson

 

[britbox]

lol Becky Anderson

More crap from CNN. That once proud network has been so badly tarnished over the last year. They made a bad mistake in moving from reporting news to trying to influence news.

 

[mrzz]

^Hehehehe, this guys are a joke. I could not believe some of the things that they aired, shown on this:

 

[britbox]

Election day in the UK today.

Conservatives called the election with a 20 point majority in the polls. After a pretty lame campaign, have seen that shrink to 6 pts.

Still, I think they will go against the polls and maybe even increase their majority.

 

[britbox]

Exit Polls aren't looking good for the Cons. Pound already falling...

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Looks a bit embarrassing for May eh?

 

[britbox]

Looks a bit embarrassing for May eh?

Could be. The campaign was embarrassing for sure.

I'm still thinking the exit polls will be out and they'll win an outright majority.

 

[britbox]

Well, they didn't get the majority. Hung parliament.

20 point poll lead a month ago transfers to a loss of a majority.

Shambolic campaign by Tories and that's all on Theresa May.

 

[Mary]

Looks a bit embarrassing for May eh?

I hope this is the end of May. The worst PM in history by a long way. The party will ditch her as soon as they can. The one likely to be favoured as Tory Leader is Amber Rudd, she almost lost her seat last night and now has only a 300 vote majority. She described her constituency as full of drug addicts and scroungers, has dubious links with Saudi Arabia, shared with May responsibility for cuts to police and security services and is a tax avoider. I suppose Boris Johnson will be manoeuvring and goodness knows who else will crawl out of the Tory stately home woodwork!

 

[Mary]

Well, they didn't get the majority. Hung parliament.

20 point poll lead a month ago transfers to a loss of a majority.

Shambolic campaign by Tories and that's all on Theresa May.

It was no campaign at all, no coherent detailed policies, a string of pathetic catch phrases and the usual smear tactics. The knives will be out, in fact are already out in Tory HQ.

I think it's more than the campaign though. The anti austerity feeling has reached a near critical mass. The country is in grief at the death of 30 people in these dreadful terrorist attacks. Oxford University have calculated deaths due to austerity policies at 30,000 in one year. This is primarily due to delays in receiving health care and lack of social care. There are huge further cuts planned for health and security services including massive cuts in policing for Manchester and London. This government is dangerous to the wellbeing of any one with less than £100,000 pa. I think voters are saying "enough is enough" to Tory policies. Why on earth would anyone vote for people who openly scorn them, don't give a damn about them, and admit they are there to make more money for the rich (as Cameron said in the H of C)

Where will Labour go now? There are a lot of people in the PLP who have betrayed voters and party members. I still think it will be tough achieving unity. Corbyn is more forgiving than I would be though, I would be sharpening my hatchet this morning and taking my little list out of the drawer!