US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

Trump is awarding disaster relief only to the states that voted for him.

Trump Approves Disaster Relief—But Just for States That Voted for Him

Donald Trump is playing favorites at a major cost.

newrepublic.com

This is the benign, democrat party version what they do. “Some people did some stuff” (Ilhan Omar on the terrorist attack on your city), “mostly peaceful riots”, that kind of rhetoric.

They always cover their faces. They’re always violent, and threatening violence.

I don’t bring trans into every conversation, just every now and then to remind you of how nuts and unelectable the left is.




There’s been an a lot of Business Insider articles yanked, and they quote The Guardian in the little window there. I’ll try find time later, but I’m not being evasive when I say that I’m under extreme time pressure now.

They always cover their faces, as do all your protesters now, which I think should be illegal. If you’re going to protest, show your face, tell us who you are.

Biden saying they don’t exist is literally him giving them Carte Blanche. “They’re just an idea”.

Just because they call themselves anti-fascists does not mean they’re anti-fascist…

Wait, I just told you they don't always cover their faces. And I've seen them. What's wrong with you?

Should be illegal? How about ICE agents coming after people masked, with no ID, no warrant, in plain clothes. I'd say that should be illegal.

 

[Kieran]

Trump is awarding disaster relief only to the states that voted for him.

Trump Approves Disaster Relief—But Just for States That Voted for Him

Donald Trump is playing favorites at a major cost.

newrepublic.com

Wait, I just told you they don't always cover their faces. And I've seen them. What's wrong with you?

Should be illegal? How about ICE agents coming after people masked, with no ID, no warrant, in plain clothes. I'd say that should be illegal.

Well they should have a warrant, but I don’t know what that’s about. Going about covering their faces is probably wise given that treacherous “activists” would willingly planned them in danger, while they’re trying to keep you safe and clean up the mess your previous administration made of the border.

But so-called activists should not be allowed to stop traffic and cause disruption or march the streets inviting chaos and violence while covering their faces…

 

[Moxie]

@Moxie and I say this in absolute seriousness.... believing a chick can have a dick is as tin foil hat as it gets. It makes far more sense, seems far more credible that there might be a secret powerful cabal running things in the background. I actually don't believe in either of those scenarios, so... which one of us is wearing the tin foil hat?

You are completely misusing the metaphor "tinfoil hat," and you know it, so that's disingenuous. Chicks with dicks is your phrase, not mine, but I do believe that transgenderism exists, as do you. We just have different opinions about it. I have no conspiracy theory about it. I don't believe that my government or any other is trying to control my mind over it, so I have no reason to wear a tin foil hat. You, on the other had, find it rather "credible that there might be a secret powerful cabal running things in the background." Now, we both know that governments and entities run mind games, use propaganda, and invade social media with misinformation in order to influence others in opinions and votes and conspiracy theories. That doesn't mean I believe that some secret cabal runs everything. That presumes more organization and influence than I think any one group has.

By the way... I don't have to believe or support everything the guy says.

And yet you posted it with no more comment than how stupid the lefties are. Implying that you agreed with him.

Do I believe that universities in the West might have been infiltrated by Communist/ex-Communist counter-intelligence operatives? ABSOLUTELY! You would be foolish not expect that. There was no way the communists could have challenged the West militarily, so it was patently obvious that some sort of asymmetric counter-measures would be attempted. Are you seriously telling me that you don't understand or appreciate that?

I addressed this above. You did not, however, address anything that I wrote when you asked me to point out what the guy said that was wrong/biased. In fairness to you, it could be a cultural difference that you think he was talking about universities. When he says "teachers unions" and "school boards," he is only talking about public schools through high school. But you might not realize that. However, you did sort of ignore everything I said, and change the conversation. So you'll understand if I don't waste my time next time you ask for elaboration. I was talking about the inherent bias in the piece, and you're yammering at me about what I do and don't believe.

 

[Moxie]

Well they should have a warrant, but I don’t know what that’s about.

When you arrest someone in this country, you should have an arrest warrant issued by a judge, unless the arresting officer sees you commit a crime, or finds you to be putting others in danger. If you are arresting someone for an outstanding crime, you should have a warrant, otherwise the case may be thrown out by the judge. However, because these people are being deported before their cases are heard, ICE is acting without such fear. It's not legal, but they're doing it.

Going about covering their faces is probably wise given that treacherous “activists” would willingly planned them in danger, while they’re trying to keep you safe and clean up the mess your previous administration made of the border.

They often are not anywhere near protestors when they do this. In Boston, near my brother's house, they grabbed a young woman off the street, masked and in plainclothes, showing no idea and shoving her into a car. She thought she was being kidnapped. This is not normal law enforcement behavior, it's strong-arm stuff.

People who show up in courtrooms in an attempt to protect these people are not treacherous, IMO. They are documenting illegal law enforcement. There is nothing wrong with that. If these ICE officers were doing things legally, they would have no reason to conceal their identities.

But so-called activists should not be allowed to stop traffic and cause disruption or march the streets inviting chaos and violence while covering their faces…

Protesting is not illegal. Stopping traffic is, unless you have a permit to protest in the streets. But I've already told you that you're exaggerating the "violence" and "chaos." You're just parroting the words of others. You're also editorializing, and without merit. Protesting illegal government actions is perfectly legal, and they SHOULD do it.

 

[Kieran]

When you arrest someone in this country, you should have an arrest warrant issued by a judge, unless the arresting officer sees you commit a crime, or finds you to be putting others in danger. If you are arresting someone for an outstanding crime, you should have a warrant, otherwise the case may be thrown out by the judge. However, because these people are being deported before their cases are heard, ICE is acting without such fear. It's not legal, but they're doing it.

People who show up in courtrooms in an attempt to protect these people are not treacherous, IMO. They are documenting illegal law enforcement. There is nothing wrong with that. If these ICE officers were doing things legally, they would have no reason to conceal their identities.

It’s legal:

Immigration Enforcement Frequently Asked Questions

www.ice.gov

Now, the question is whether it’s warranted or not - forgive the pun. They can take somebody they suspect is illegal in the country without having to flash a judicial warrant.

Protesting is not illegal. Stopping traffic is, unless you have a permit to protest in the streets.

If you want to describe it as “protesting”, that’s fine. They come out regularly, don’t they? I tend to think of it as being something other than “protesting.” But when you’re screaming for the genocide of Jews, please have the courtesy to remove your culturally appropriated face-covering keffiyeh when you do it…

 

[Federberg]

And yet you posted it with no more comment than how stupid the lefties are. Implying that you agreed with him.

I said I didn't agree with everything he said. Doesn't mean I don't agree with some of it! How is that so difficult for you to understand?

I addressed this above. You did not, however, address anything that I wrote when you asked me to point out what the guy said that was wrong/biased. In fairness to you, it could be a cultural difference that you think he was talking about universities. When he says "teachers unions" and "school boards," he is only talking about public schools through high school. But you might not realize that. However, you did sort of ignore everything I said, and change the conversation. So you'll understand if I don't waste my time next time you ask for elaboration. I was talking about the inherent bias in the piece, and you're yammering at me about what I do and don't believe.

universities are topical at the moment particularly with Palestine. But ok... try the whole trans nonsense in schools. Didn't think I had to point out the bleeding obvious to you.

You are completely misusing the metaphor "tinfoil hat," and you know it, so that's disingenuous. Chicks with dicks is your phrase, not mine, but I do believe that transgenderism exists, as do you. We just have different opinions about it. I have no conspiracy theory about it. I don't believe that my government or any other is trying to control my mind over it, so I have no reason to wear a tin foil hat. You, on the other had, find it rather "credible that there might be a secret powerful cabal running things in the background." Now, we both know that governments and entities run mind games, use propaganda, and invade social media with misinformation in order to influence others in opinions and votes and conspiracy theories. That doesn't mean I believe that some secret cabal runs everything. That presumes more organization and influence than I think any one group has.

Sigh.. actually I don't believe there's a secret cabal guiding everything. It amazes me that you wilfully try to misinterpret what I write. I pointed out that some believe that, and other believe in chicks with dicks. And yes I was fkg with you a bit about tin-foil hattery I'm not sure why you seem to think it's the State behind this. The whole point is that if as I believe there have been counter-intelligence operations executed by enemy countries it certainly hasn't been targeted at government. Rather leftwing and rightwing activists.. On the left there are plenty of fools who seem to have entrenched themselves in the education system

Oh and by the way I'm not sure who's worse.. the right for banning books, although to be honest some of the books that they've banned targeting young kids and talking about sexual relationships I'm not sure I'm too offended by that. But on the left, some classics have been edited to assuage the snowflakes who arrogantly believe that they're competent enough to handle the originals but shudder at the thought of others being able to deal with it. It's just different forms of censorship!

 

[Moxie]

It’s legal:

Immigration Enforcement Frequently Asked Questions

www.ice.gov

Now, the question is whether it’s warranted or not - forgive the pun. They can take somebody they suspect is illegal in the country without having to flash a judicial warrant.

Interesting how this government puts it. As I mentioned, it can be done, but in normal times, the arrest risks being thrown out of court. Not so now, because Trump govt. ignores the courts orders, and doesn't offer illegal immigrants, (or even legal ones, as it happens,) due process of law before shipping them out. Also, if you looked at the masks bit, it says they are masked to prevent "doxing," but they do it even when there are no protesters present. It also says they carry ID and will show it, which has often not been the case.

If you want to describe it as “protesting”, that’s fine. They come out regularly, don’t they? I tend to think of it as being something other than “protesting.” But when you’re screaming for the genocide of Jews, please have the courtesy to remove your culturally appropriated face-covering keffiyeh when you do it…

I do call it protesting. There a people who try to make a presence at the courthouses where immigrants have been seized while attending, or attempting to attend scheduled court hearings. Several elected officials were arrested in NYC last summer while trying to inspect conditions of arrested immigrants at a courthouse in NYC.

I do not scream for the genocide of Jews. And you insult almost anyone who has protested against to killing of civilians in Palestine in good faith to say so. Also, has nothing to do with ICE wearing masks. You guys cannot stop wandering off topic.

 

[Moxie]

I said I didn't agree with everything he said. Doesn't mean I don't agree with some of it! How is that so difficult for you to understand?

universities are topical at the moment particularly with Palestine. But ok... try the whole trans nonsense in schools. Didn't think I had to point out the bleeding obvious to you.


Sigh.. actually I don't believe there's a secret cabal guiding everything. It amazes me that you wilfully try to misinterpret what I write. I pointed out that some believe that, and other believe in chicks with dicks. And yes I was fkg with you a bit about tin-foil hattery I'm not sure why you seem to think it's the State behind this. The whole point is that if as I believe there have been counter-intelligence operations executed by enemy countries it certainly hasn't been targeted at government. Rather leftwing and rightwing activists.. On the left there are plenty of fools who seem to have entrenched themselves in the education system

Oh and by the way I'm not sure who's worse.. the right for banning books, although to be honest some of the books that they've banned targeting young kids and talking about sexual relationships I'm not sure I'm too offended by that. But on the left, some classics have been edited to assuage the snowflakes who arrogantly believe that they're competent enough to handle the originals but shudder at the thought of others being able to deal with it. It's just different forms of censorship!

You spend a lot of energy changing the subject and insisting I misinterpret you when I don't. You've completely lost track of the point of your original video. It would save time if you'd just admit that I made good points.

 

[Kieran]

Interesting how this government puts it. As I mentioned, it can be done, but in normal times, the arrest risks being thrown out of court. Not so now, because Trump govt. ignores the courts orders, and doesn't offer illegal immigrants, (or even legal ones, as it happens,) due process of law before shipping them out. Also, if you looked at the masks bit, it says they are masked to prevent "doxing," but they do it even when there are no protesters present. It also says they carry ID and will show it, which has often not been the case.

Look, they're right to cover their faces due to fear of doxxing. Do you really trust your citizens to keep your law enforcement agents safe?

ICE have been operating without judicial warrants since it was founded 20-odd years ago, and Obama was a formidable deporter too. The Deporter in Chief, in fact. Your previous administration offered an open border to immigrants, and that created chaos. Trump didn't invent this shit.

I do call it protesting. There a people who try to make a presence at the courthouses where immigrants have been seized while attending, or attempting to attend scheduled court hearings. Several elected officials were arrested in NYC last summer while trying to inspect conditions of arrested immigrants at a courthouse in NYC.

The thing I notice with your permanent protesters is that if I want to know what's the truth of the situation, it's the opposite to them. Trans, BLM, The Joooz. Whatever they're against, I'm for it, and whatever they're for, I'm against. They're reckless and ill-informed. They're not critics of your country, they're opponents.

I do not scream for the genocide of Jews. And you insult almost anyone who has protested against to killing of civilians in Palestine in good faith to say so. Also, has nothing to do with ICE wearing masks. You guys cannot stop wandering off topic.

None of them protested the Palestine thing in good faith. They screamed for the genocide of Jews, without even understanding the Hamas lyrics they were chanting. If they cared for Palestinian civilians, they'd support the Jewish State, point blank, but "criticism of Israel" is very rarely about "criticism of Israel". Such a tiny country, I wonder what it is about it that triggers everybody. What could it be?

And I'm still on topic regarding the ICE agents wisely wearing masks because I said above, that the uni-level useful idiots and your general "protesters" can be seen covering their faces while going about their shady business, and this stands in stark contrast to the legitimate reasons for ICE agents covering their faces....

 

[Moxie]

Look, they're right to cover their faces due to fear of doxxing. Do you really trust your citizens to keep your law enforcement agents safe?

I thought the idea was that law enforcement agents were there to keep citizens safe.

ICE have been operating without judicial warrants since it was founded 20-odd years ago, and Obama was a formidable deporter too. The Deporter in Chief, in fact. Your previous administration offered an open border to immigrants, and that created chaos. Trump didn't invent this shit.

The thing I notice with your permanent protesters is that if I want to know what's the truth of the situation, it's the opposite to them. Trans, BLM, The Joooz. Whatever they're against, I'm for it, and whatever they're for, I'm against. They're reckless and ill-informed. They're not critics of your country, they're opponents.

None of them protested the Palestine thing in good faith. They screamed for the genocide of Jews, without even understanding the Hamas lyrics they were chanting. If they cared for Palestinian civilians, they'd support the Jewish State, point blank, but "criticism of Israel" is very rarely about "criticism of Israel". Such a tiny country, I wonder what it is about it that triggers everybody. What could it be?

And I'm still on topic regarding the ICE agents wisely wearing masks because I said above, that the uni-level useful idiots and your general "protesters" can be seen covering their faces while going about their shady business, and this stands in stark contrast to the legitimate reasons for ICE agents covering their faces....

I think you're making too much of this stuff up, or buying too much propaganda from afar, and I'm tired of looking stuff up to show you. You just keep ignoring it. You're clearly just going to believe what you do.

 

[Kieran]

I thought the idea was that law enforcement agents were there to keep citizens safe.

Illegals aren’t your citizens and the public do have a legal obligation to help keep the peace, regardless of what you’re leftist parade of fifth columnists think.

I think you're making too much of this stuff up, or buying too much propaganda from afar, and I'm tired of looking stuff up to show you. You just keep ignoring it. You're clearly just going to believe what you do.

Says the person who complained that ICE aren’t flashing warrants…

 

[Federberg]

You spend a lot of energy changing the subject and insisting I misinterpret you when I don't. You've completely lost track of the point of your original video. It would save time if you'd just admit that I made good points.

lol I would love to know how I’ve changed the subject. The reality is you always try to reframe things to suit your argument. I don’t allow it. You then try gaslighting claiming your initial understanding was the truth. Rinse and repeat. Like I said… silly lefties

 

[Moxie]

Illegals aren’t your citizens and the public do have a legal obligation to help keep the peace, regardless of what you’re leftist parade of fifth columnists think.

Well, that wasn't the comment I was responding to, but law enforcement is meant to protect the public, which is everyone. No, we don't "help keep the peace." We're meant not to break laws. And if you weren't so pig-headed, you'd realize that most immigrants, and most protestors do just that. But you won't let the truth get in the way of your narrative.

Says the person who complained that ICE aren’t flashing warrants…

That is misunderstanding what I have been taking pains to explain to you. Also, taking too much at face value what the Trump govt. have put up on their website, and I've already told you're they've scrubbed some inconvenient truths off of it. I hadn't realized that you don't technically need a warrant, but it's a norm, and it's also unwise not to, as you could queer the case...in normal times, where due process is respected. But to state no cause, show no warrant, no iD, to arrest people in while wearing plain clothes is outrageous and authoritarian. And they're not always right about who they grab. And deport! I'd be surprised if you tolerated it in your country.

 

[Moxie]

lol I would love to know how I’ve changed the subject. The reality is you always try to reframe things to suit your argument. I don’t allow it. You then try gaslighting claiming your initial understanding was the truth. Rinse and repeat. Like I said… silly lefties

I didn't reframe anything to suit my argument. I addressed your video, as you asked me to, and they you conveniently ignored everything I wrote. And I think I've been clear that I understand you're not 100% in with the video. But it would be interesting if you'd debate, rather than just sneer. You snarl when I point out that something you've posted is biased.

 

[Federberg]

I didn't reframe anything to suit my argument. I addressed your video, as you asked me to, and they you conveniently ignored everything I wrote. And I think I've been clear that I understand you're not 100% in with the video. But it would be interesting if you'd debate, rather than just sneer. You snarl when I point out that something you've posted is biased.

oh good grief! You can be exhausting sometimes. You give, and when someone gives back you become a victim. Miss me with that

 

[Kieran]

Well, that wasn't the comment I was responding to, but law enforcement is meant to protect the public, which is everyone. No, we don't "help keep the peace." We're meant not to break laws. And if you weren't so pig-headed, you'd realize that most immigrants, and most protestors do just that. But you won't let the truth get in the way of your narrative.

That is misunderstanding what I have been taking pains to explain to you. Also, taking too much at face value what the Trump govt. have put up on their website, and I've already told you're they've scrubbed some inconvenient truths off of it. I hadn't realized that you don't technically need a warrant, but it's a norm, and it's also unwise not to, as you could queer the case...in normal times, where due process is respected. But to state no cause, show no warrant, no iD, to arrest people in while wearing plain clothes is outrageous and authoritarian. And they're not always right about who they grab. And deport! I'd be surprised if you tolerated it in your country.

Let's break this down a little different, maybe to help us see why we really disagree. This is a partisan issue, not just in your country, but everywhere. We have "protesters' here too, and we're similarly split. The left believe in relatively open borders, and the right want care to be taken about who gets in, and also that it should be legal, and also not at the expense of the citizens who are here, some struggling badly and feeling neglected by the government at the expense of others.

So the left will see themselves as being compassionate towards illegal immigrants, and the right will question that, given that they'll feel the compassion should start at home.

Your last government let in a helluva lot of people and your current government is trying to reverse that, as a policy they promised in the election. Protesters are out in force.

This is our main area of disagreement: You think they're "protesters", and I say they're not, they're simply disrupters who will come out for any fancy cause if it destabilises your country. Why do I say this? Because we have them here. They are far left anarchists who think the west is an unfair, oppressive, colonialist influence in the world. So they believe in defund the police, BLM, trans, the evil Jews, whatever is the opposite to truth and western norms. They come out in force to overwhelm and disrupt.

Sure, we have some useful idiots too.

And some genuinely concerned protesters.

As for ICE, they haven't needed a warrant since they were formed, over 20 years ago. Other presidents, including Obama, have been controversial when it comes to deporting illegals:

Each year, over 363, 279 – 83 percent – of deportations from the United States are ordered by immigration officers, not judges. Those deported in "summary removal" processes do not get a hearing or a chance to present evidence, or call a lawyer, or even say goodbye to their families before they are banished, sometimes for life. Our report released today, American Exile: Rapid Deportations That Bypass the Courtroom, shows the incredible costs to those we remove and to their families left behind when the rush to deport trumps due process.

...

Announcing his executive action program, President Obama said, "We didn't raise the Statue of Liberty with her back to the world; we did it with her light shining as a beacon to the world." But when asylum seekers reach our borders following that beacon, they and many others are deported quickly to danger, without a hearing, often after signing deportation forms they don't understand and in a language they don't speak.

In all of these situations, people are deported because immigration enforcement officers have incredible power and discretion that is used too often as a smokescreen to deny a person his or her rights. Immigration enforcement officers are not trained as lawyers; nor do they act as independent mediators. They are trained to arrest, detain, and deport – not to judge and authorize relief or to be fluent in some of the most complicated law in the United States.

But these deportation orders, which you'd think need more review and oversight, receive almost none – far less than a deportation order issued by a judge after evidence, testimony, and legal review. Getting illegal deportation orders reviewed and expunged is virtually impossible. And review can be too little, too late, when people are deported back into harm's way.

This ACLU article is from 2014, and it would be harrowing reading - if it was Trump in charge. But I don't remember any protests from this back then. Obama was known as The Deporter in Chief. He was known as a fancy orator with the common touch, and his actions weren't seen the way the same actions are seen now, because this is a partisan issue.

People don't protest based on the issues, they simply take sides and join in...

 

[Moxie]

oh good grief! You can be exhausting sometimes. You give, and when someone gives back you become a victim. Miss me with that

I don't feel a victim, I think I'm right. You just can't stand it when someone points out that there may be flaws in some of the videos you maybe post without watching them carefully, or when you walk back your belief in some conspiracies theories.

 

[Moxie]

Let's break this down a little different, maybe to help us see why we really disagree. This is a partisan issue, not just in your country, but everywhere. We have "protesters' here too, and we're similarly split. The left believe in relatively open borders, and the right want care to be taken about who gets in, and also that it should be legal, and also not at the expense of the citizens who are here, some struggling badly and feeling neglected by the government at the expense of others.

So the left will see themselves as being compassionate towards illegal immigrants, and the right will question that, given that they'll feel the compassion should start at home.

Your last government let in a helluva lot of people and your current government is trying to reverse that, as a policy they promised in the election. Protesters are out in force.

This is our main area of disagreement: You think they're "protesters", and I say they're not, they're simply disrupters who will come out for any fancy cause if it destabilises your country. Why do I say this? Because we have them here. They are far left anarchists who think the west is an unfair, oppressive, colonialist influence in the world. So they believe in defund the police, BLM, trans, the evil Jews, whatever is the opposite to truth and western norms. They come out in force to overwhelm and disrupt.

Sure, we have some useful idiots too.

And some genuinely concerned protesters.

As for ICE, they haven't needed a warrant since they were formed, over 20 years ago. Other presidents, including Obama, have been controversial when it comes to deporting illegals:



This ACLU article is from 2014, and it would be harrowing reading - if it was Trump in charge. But I don't remember any protests from this back then. Obama was known as The Deporter in Chief. He was known as a fancy orator with the common touch, and his actions weren't seen the way the same actions are seen now, because this is a partisan issue.

People don't protest based on the issues, they simply take sides and join in...

I think there is a basic fallacy in your argument. I wouldn't say the left, at least in the US, believe in "relatively open borders." We just have more empathy for immigrants, and I would say generally less prejudice against them than those on the right tend to have. Certainly not the irrational fear that Trump has whipped up over the years. Trump made immigration the centerpiece of all of his campaigns, so yes, it was much more of a focus than during Obama. I have said, many times, on these very forums, that our immigration system is very broken, and many have attempted to do various things to fix it, to no real success.

You don't understand about warrants, so I give up.

As to protestors, I don't think we agree about proportion of sincere ones to agitators. I believe the agitators are a small but noisy number. At the risk of sounding like the old lady that I am, I think these Antifa people are mostly kids, rather passionate about their ideas, which is something most will grow out of. Much like Jerry Rubin and Bobby Seale. But you also seem to have forgotten what I told you just a post or two ago: that the recent No Kings protest marches saw some 8 million participants, with no arrests, as reported by the various police departments.

 

[Federberg]

I don't feel a victim, I think I'm right. You just can't stand it when someone points out that there may be flaws in some of the videos you maybe post without watching them carefully, or when you walk back your belief in some conspiracies theories.

sigh.. what did I walk back? I agreed with a point the guy made about the infiltration of left wing ideology. You tried to imply that I agreed with everything he said. My correcting that claim is not walking anything back. It's just a clarification, in order to move the debate along.

I think the problem is that you, like a lot of people in this era, are utterly incapable of taking parts of what people say and discarding the rest. For example Trump could bake the tastiest cake and progressives like you would swear it's awful. I'm not like that. Frankly I think people who position themselves like that are toxic and weird. This is why as much as I loathe Trump, I can acknowledge that his Abraham Accords were good. And any number of other things were effective. I can acknowledge that Biden vocally supporting Ukraine was good, even though it turned out that his support turned out to be utterly pathetic and even harmful. That's the real world. There is never perfect evil, or good, just imperfect humans. I think the real issue is that you have a broken perception problem. Just because someone is "right wing" you seem unable to hear or read the common sense they say. Keep telling yourself you're winning. It's a bit juvenile, but whatever. works I suppose

 

[Moxie]

sigh.. what did I walk back? I agreed with a point the guy made about the infiltration of left wing ideology. You tried to imply that I agreed with everything he said. My correcting that claim is not walking anything back. It's just a clarification, in order to move the debate along.

I think the problem is that you, like a lot of people in this era, are utterly incapable of taking parts of what people say and discarding the rest. For example Trump could bake the tastiest cake and progressives like you would swear it's awful. I'm not like that. Frankly I think people who position themselves like that are toxic and weird. This is why as much as I loathe Trump, I can acknowledge that his Abraham Accords were good. And any number of other things were effective. I can acknowledge that Biden vocally supporting Ukraine was good, even though it turned out that his support turned out to be utterly pathetic and even harmful. That's the real world. There is never perfect evil, or good, just imperfect humans. I think the real issue is that you have a broken perception problem. Just because someone is "right wing" you seem unable to hear or read the common sense they say. Keep telling yourself you're winning. It's a bit juvenile, but whatever. works I suppose

I think we need to move on. You only see what you want in this, which isn't a discussion, since you feel the same about me. Really never was interesting enough for this much palaver.