2019 Roland Garros Men's Final: Rafael Nadal vs. Dominic Thiem

Who wins?


  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .

DarthFed

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
17,724
Reactions
3,477
Points
113
really? exactly how did you deduce that conclusion? fans still talk about Pancho, Laver, Rosewall, Hoad etc passionately from 50 years ago, whats your evidence about fading into obscurity?

They won't fade into obscurity quickly but at some point there will be no one left in the world who saw those guys play and yes their names will fade quite a bit.

Also it is all relative. No one talks about Hoad or even Rosewall the way they talk about Laver, no one talks about Connors or McEnroe the way they talk Borg, no one talks Agassi the way they talk Sampras. And one of the current big 3 will have a brighter and longer lasting star than the other 2.
 

DarthFed

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
17,724
Reactions
3,477
Points
113
Look... I love basketball but... you simply can't compare the stamina required in tennis to basketball. Tennis has an order of magnitude higher requirement. I'm amazed that this can actually be argued with any seriousness. As for athleticism there are different requirements. I won't say that the ability to jump higher in one sport implies a higher athletic quotient than the other sport. Short burst acceleration and change of direction, while implementing incredible hand eye coordination is deserving of a great deal of respect. And that's without the fact that basketball... and American football is inherently more start stop than tennis. And that's not even bringing up the fact that tennis players don't get plays drawn up for them. The mental toll of being out there and making decisions on the fly by yourself is just a different league of difficulty.

I agree with all that, but note that I was responding to Mike. I chose only a couple points of it that were just clearly wrong. I mean he was talking 38 minutes of game time in basketball and then acting like in tennis you are playing non stop during a 3-4 hour tennis match. His other point is that people's opinions on athleticism in the NBA is distorted by player's size. It is clear to me he doesn't watch the NBA at all.

I am not crapping on tennis, they are much different games, involving much different skill sets and you also make excellent points on just how much more mental tennis is.
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,542
Reactions
5,607
Points
113
I agree with all that, but note that I was responding to Mike. I chose only a couple points of it that were just clearly wrong. I mean he was talking 38 minutes of game time in basketball and then acting like in tennis you are playing non stop during a 3-4 hour tennis match. His other point is that people's opinions on athleticism in the NBA is distorted by player's size. It is clear to me he doesn't watch the NBA at all.

I am not crapping on tennis, they are much different games, involving much different skill sets and you also make excellent points on just how much more mental tennis is.
ah ok my bad. I obviously missed part of the chain :)
 

GameSetAndMath

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Messages
21,141
Reactions
3,398
Points
113
i am sorry but what high standard do you think a mere tennis fan should set for the players? they may be nothing if you just mouth off, but anyone objective can see that they are truly one in a million greats....its just easy for people sitting behind screen to write them off in a mere few words, as if they know anything about the sport.

If you have been following HOF, you would know that it is a joke. They are running out of good candidates to induct. Instead of simply not giving it to anyone until they find worthy, they are giving it all kind of tom, dick and harry. This is well known in tennis circles and I am by no means the only one who thinks that way.

I am not requiring everyone to be at the level of Fedalovic. Neither am I requiring them to be at that level to be inducted. But, HOF is a joke.
 

MikeOne

Masters Champion
Joined
Sep 29, 2015
Messages
658
Reactions
484
Points
63
I agree with all that, but note that I was responding to Mike. I chose only a couple points of it that were just clearly wrong. I mean he was talking 38 minutes of game time in basketball and then acting like in tennis you are playing non stop during a 3-4 hour tennis match. His other point is that people's opinions on athleticism in the NBA is distorted by player's size. It is clear to me he doesn't watch the NBA at all.

I am not crapping on tennis, they are much different games, involving much different skill sets and you also make excellent points on just how much more mental tennis is.
i owned you on this, its why you didn't even have a comeback to my response. I'll add, i guarantee i've played and watched more b-ball than you.
 

MikeOne

Masters Champion
Joined
Sep 29, 2015
Messages
658
Reactions
484
Points
63
Look... I love basketball but... you simply can't compare the stamina required in tennis to basketball. Tennis has an order of magnitude higher requirement. I'm amazed that this can actually be argued with any seriousness. As for athleticism there are different requirements. I won't say that the ability to jump higher in one sport implies a higher athletic quotient than the other sport. Short burst acceleration and change of direction, while implementing incredible hand eye coordination is deserving of a great deal of respect. And that's without the fact that basketball... and American football is inherently more start stop than tennis. And that's not even bringing up the fact that tennis players don't get plays drawn up for them. The mental toll of being out there and making decisions on the fly by yourself is just a different league of difficulty.

right and even when you factor in that there are breaks in a 3-4 hour match, it's still more moving than 38 mins of play time during a basketball game. There are even breaks during the 38 mins of play time so the 38 mins a player is on court, it isn't constant running. What you mention about the mental aspect of making decisions on your own, is also a factor, can take it's toll mentally. The fact is b-ball players also get a long extended break during off-season, there is none in tennis. It's no surprise virtually every tennis player you can think off has had injuries, some bad injuries. Also, how many times have we seen world class tennis players lose a match due to exhaustion right after playing a 3 hour match the day before? happens all the time, their bodies can't handle it, even being super fit. How many times have we seen a b-ball player be exhausted the game after a previous game? never happens, they are always fresh. When you factor in the amount of injuries, the # of times players succumb to exhaustion (mental and physical), evidence suggests tennis more physically taxing. Don't get me wrong, basketball is workout, i used to play a lot.. it is a heck of a workout but like i've said before, i have never felt more exhausted than after playing a 3 set battle against a consistent base liner. I've had to default tennis matches due to this...

Athleticism is another story but what i say about height is also true, height does make people seem more impressive. Would've a 6'1 Jordon or 6'1 Lebron done as well? even with same speed, leaping ability (same athletcism), i would argue hell no. When you are tall and athletic it makes you more impressive, especially on a b-ball court where rim is at 10 feet. It's unfair to compare Lebron to Nadal, he makes Nadal look like a little baby and this creates an illusion. Lebron may be more athletic than Nadal but make him 6'1 and the difference diminishes substantially.
 

DarthFed

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
17,724
Reactions
3,477
Points
113
i owned you on this, its why you didn't even have a comeback to my response. I'll add, i guarantee i've played and watched more b-ball than you.

Lol sure thing man. You were directly comparing 38 minutes for bball to a 3 hour match and acting like they are playing that full 3 hours. Admit that it was stupid, that's all I'm asking :)

I've never heard anyone attribute NBA players' height as part of athleticism. If LeBron was 6'1 200 pounds he'd probably have a lot more raw athleticism than he does at 6'8 260. But with that said no one who actually watches him play would say he's just athletic for a big guy. He's crazy athletic period. Ive also seen you talk about "Clay" Thompson in other posts. Maybe you used to watch, I don't know how old you are.

And it might not be the best time to compare devastating injuries in tennis compared to basketball. Not that you'd know or anything.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,603
Reactions
14,761
Points
113
They won't fade into obscurity quickly but at some point there will be no one left in the world who saw those guys play and yes their names will fade quite a bit.

Also it is all relative. No one talks about Hoad or even Rosewall the way they talk about Laver, no one talks about Connors or McEnroe the way they talk Borg, no one talks Agassi the way they talk Sampras. And one of the current big 3 will have a brighter and longer lasting star than the other 2.
It's all relative, as you say. That does seem like a concession. Sure, someday these guys will be forgotten...when the planet explodes and we're all dead. Until then, history tells us that even guys who lived in the pre-Youtube days have such a legacy that we still talk about them. Even the also-rans. You are feeling a bit hysterical at the moment, worrying about Roger's legacy. Don't worry, he won't be forgotten. But neither will Rafa or Novak. Not by a long shot.

Sorry to interrupt the basketball conversation. Carry on...
 

DarthFed

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
17,724
Reactions
3,477
Points
113
right and even when you factor in that there are breaks in a 3-4 hour match, it's still more moving than 38 mins of play time during a basketball game. There are even breaks during the 38 mins of play time so the 38 mins a player is on court, it isn't constant running. What you mention about the mental aspect of making decisions on your own, is also a factor, can take it's toll mentally. The fact is b-ball players also get a long extended break during off-season, there is none in tennis. It's no surprise virtually every tennis player you can think off has had injuries, some bad injuries. Also, how many times have we seen world class tennis players lose a match due to exhaustion right after playing a 3 hour match the day before? happens all the time, their bodies can't handle it, even being super fit. How many times have we seen a b-ball player be exhausted the game after a previous game? never happens, they are always fresh. When you factor in the amount of injuries, the # of times players succumb to exhaustion (mental and physical), evidence suggests tennis more physically taxing. Don't get me wrong, basketball is workout, i used to play a lot.. it is a heck of a workout but like i've said before, i have never felt more exhausted than after playing a 3 set battle against a consistent base liner. I've had to default tennis matches due to this...

Athleticism is another story but what i say about height is also true, height does make people seem more impressive. Would've a 6'1 Jordon or 6'1 Lebron done as well? even with same speed, leaping ability (same athletcism), i would argue hell no. When you are tall and athletic it makes you more impressive, especially on a b-ball court where rim is at 10 feet. It's unfair to compare Lebron to Nadal, he makes Nadal look like a little baby and this creates an illusion. Lebron may be more athletic than Nadal but make him 6'1 and the difference diminishes substantially.

What are these breaks in the 38 minutes you're referring to? And apparently basketball players don't get tired. Damn, if that's the case I'm sure teams would play their starters the entire game. I'm also sure teams wouldn't sit their best players multiple games throughout the year to keep them fresh and limit chances for injury.

Tennis has a longer season but players are not playing tournaments every week, not even close. I'd say the top 3 for most of their careers are probably under 80 matches per season even when healthy throughout. What is better, playing a ton throughout the season basically non stop and getting a 4-5 month offseason (for teams that make playoffs) or just getting a month and a half offseason but actually playing tournaments a little over 20 weeks during the year? I could see it both ways. IMO both seasons are way too long and near the end of it for both sports many players are heavily fatigued.
 
Last edited:

atttomole

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,347
Reactions
1,138
Points
113
It's all relative, as you say. That does seem like a concession. Sure, someday these guys will be forgotten...when the planet explodes and we're all dead. Until then, history tells us that even guys who lived in the pre-Youtube days have such a legacy that we still talk about them. Even the also-rans. You are feeling a bit hysterical at the moment, worrying about Roger's legacy. Don't worry, he won't be forgotten. But neither will Rafa or Novak. Not by a long shot.
Sorry to interrupt the basketball conversation. Carry on...
You don’t have to apologize for that. This is a tennis forum after-all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moxie

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,603
Reactions
14,761
Points
113
You don’t have to apologize for that. This is a tennis forum after-all.
Thanks, but to be honest, when a tournament is over, I kind of enjoy the free-flow of where a conversation might go. I really don't care, personally, if it ends up with basketball or whatever.