What's worse: Donald Sterling's remarks or thousands of shootings?

[calitennis127]

I was just glancing through the threads on this section of the website from recent months and I thought I would find a post from Broken, tented, Murat, Moxie, or others on this, but maybe I just missed it. The aforementioned were so piously and sanctimoniously outraged by Donald Sterling's remarks a few months back, showing so much concern for African-Americans, that I thought surely they would also bring to our attention the fact that over the July 4th weekend in Chicago, there were 82 shootings which resulted in 16 deaths. That was one weekend alone. I thought the aforementioned group might discuss the social policies that lead to this kind of dangerous and destructive environment, but again, I must have just missed it.

So what is worse: an 83-year-old Jewish lawyer who pays multiple African-Americans tens of millions of dollars telling his Hispanic mistress (who is secretly taping him) not to be around black people in public, or 16 lives being lost and a total of 82 people (overwhelmingly African-American) being shot in one weekend due to disastrous educational and economic policies?

I guess it's the former.

(This article comes from a radical right-wing paper here. It's called the Los Angeles Times.)

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-chicago-shot-weekend-violence-20140707-story.html

 

[britbox]

If it's a quiz question then the latter is obviously the worse... there is far too much outrage placed on a few words when compared in relative terms to actual death but how and where are you relating the two stories?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Uh, you're reaching here. I didn't even hear of this incident, and that probably tells you a lot about the media.

My thread about Donald Sterling was not because I was "concerned" for African Americans (who are getting paid millions to play Basketball), it was simply to talk about something that was very relevant given the NBA playoffs were taking place. I even opened that thread in the sports section, not global news section.

This is obviously a tragedy. You could have opened a thread about it without the stupid comparison but you have a thing for theatrics and stupid analogies.

 

[calitennis127]

If it's a quiz question then the latter is obviously the worse... there is far too much outrage placed on a few words when compared in relative terms to actual death but how and where are you relating the two stories?

Britbox, I will admit that sometimes I lose sight of the fact that since this is an international forum, not everyone is as in tune with American sensibilities. However, the reason for relating the two stories is pretty obvious: there is an obsession with racism and the victim hood of an assortment of minorities in America: African-Americans, gays, women, Native-Americans, and Hispanic-Americans, and "Muslim Americans". Every one of these groups has special claims as victims, according to the media and educational establishment, but only within a certain script.

If an old sleaze ball named Tuskowitz gets caught taped by his mistress saying a couple unpleasant things about black people, then he is a KKK demon, because it fits the narrative of cheap TV dinner history in which the white Christian male is always the devil of world history. But if the product of social policy designed by anti-Christian/post-Christian white males and females causes the deaths of hundreds of black people (which is far worse and far more meaningful than an illegally taped recording given over to the TMZ scum), then the media hardly mention it.

 

[britbox]

I get the gist of what you are saying about american sensibilities because the UK wasn't too far behind when I left there... but still find the two issues pretty isolated unless you think Tuskowitz had the answers to the social policy issues you mentioned.

1) Tuskowitz is by my definition a racist. Is he a "KKK" type racist. I doubt it... I'd imagine there is some scale to this sort of thing. Some people lose their jobs over comments I regard as little more than banter. Tuskowitz went beyond that... but still, it's a "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" type of situation (that's an old Brit rhyme BTW). People say a lot of things in private that they wouldn't say publically, so I'd also say Tuskowitz was stiched up by his GF. Not that I'd lose any sleep over it.

2) I'm not getting the connection with the riots and shootings and Tuskowitz. Are you a) saying he's right or b) trying to connect dots that seem miles apart. Is there any issue with left wing liberal social policy? Yes, plenty... but that horse bolted years ago. I'm not up to speed with all the shootings in Chicago but I'd also suggest the lack of leadership in the community would be obvious one. You can't blame everything on white left wing liberals... If things need fixing, a lot of it needs to start from within.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I was just glancing through the threads on this section of the website from recent months and I thought I would find a post from Broken, tented, Murat, Moxie, or others on this, but maybe I just missed it. The aforementioned were so piously and sanctimoniously outraged by Donald Sterling's remarks a few months back, showing so much concern for African-Americans, that I thought surely they would also bring to our attention the fact that over the July 4th weekend in Chicago, there were 82 shootings which resulted in 16 deaths. That was one weekend alone. I thought the aforementioned group might discuss the social policies that lead to this kind of dangerous and destructive environment, but again, I must have just missed it.

So what is worse: an 83-year-old Jewish lawyer who pays multiple African-Americans tens of millions of dollars telling his Hispanic mistress (who is secretly taping him) not to be around black people in public, or 16 lives being lost and a total of 82 people (overwhelmingly African-American) being shot in one weekend due to disastrous educational and economic policies?

I guess it's the former.

(This article comes from a radical right-wing paper here. It's called the Los Angeles Times.)

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-chicago-shot-weekend-violence-20140707-story.html

That is half the story though. Of course I was outraged by the guy. I am outraged by racism. That is the worst kind of collectivism and as you know, I hate collectivism. But did you read the posts I wrote about the punishment Sterling got? I said explicitly I do not agree with anyone losing their jobs because of opinions they have, no matter how outrageous they might be. Nobody should be forced to sell their businesses because of what they said in a private conversation in the privacy of their own home. I find THAT outrageous as well.

As for Chicago issues, they exist on parallel universes with the Sterling issue and has to be debated on its own. I am all for that. Just today 3 people were gunned down in Toronto. And guns are illegal here. Go figure.

 

[calitennis127]

I get the gist of what you are saying about american sensibilities because the UK wasn't too far behind when I left there... but still find the two issues pretty isolated unless you think Tuskowitz had the answers to the social policy issues you mentioned.

1) Tuskowitz is by my definition a racist. Is he a "KKK" type racist. I doubt it... I'd imagine there is some scale to this sort of thing. Some people lose their jobs over comments I regard as little more than banter. Tuskowitz went beyond that... but still, it's a "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" type of situation (that's an old Brit rhyme BTW). People say a lot of things in private that they wouldn't say publically, so I'd also say Tuskowitz was stiched up by his GF. Not that I'd lose any sleep over it.

2) I'm not getting the connection with the riots and shootings and Tuskowitz. Are you a) saying he's right or b) trying to connect dots that seem miles apart. Is there any issue with left wing liberal social policy? Yes, plenty... but that horse bolted years ago. I'm not up to speed with all the shootings in Chicago but I'd also suggest the lack of leadership in the community would be obvious one. You can't blame everything on white left wing liberals... If things need fixing, a lot of it needs to start from within.

Britbox, the connection is this: there was an outpouring of self-righteous indignation at Sterling's comments, putatively because he had said something harmful to black people. Yet, there is nothing approaching the same outcry or righteous indignation when thousands of black people are harmed by the type of street violence that occurs in Chicago. Sterling's comments did not affect a single black life, except perhaps that of Magic Johnson, who has enough money and standing to get over a sleight (I think), while scores of black lives are either ended or severely damaged by the chaos in the ghettos. The left refuses to acknowledge this reality because their concerns, as in the Sterling affair, are purely ideological and have nothing to do with aiding minorities; it is about a psychological battle they are waging within their own stratum of society to create a new vision for society.

The Western media and people with college degrees have been more brainwashed by the Frankfurt School than primitive tribes were in polytheistic religions thousands of years ago.

 

[calitennis127]

I was just glancing through the threads on this section of the website from recent months and I thought I would find a post from Broken, tented, Murat, Moxie, or others on this, but maybe I just missed it. The aforementioned were so piously and sanctimoniously outraged by Donald Sterling's remarks a few months back, showing so much concern for African-Americans, that I thought surely they would also bring to our attention the fact that over the July 4th weekend in Chicago, there were 82 shootings which resulted in 16 deaths. That was one weekend alone. I thought the aforementioned group might discuss the social policies that lead to this kind of dangerous and destructive environment, but again, I must have just missed it.

So what is worse: an 83-year-old Jewish lawyer who pays multiple African-Americans tens of millions of dollars telling his Hispanic mistress (who is secretly taping him) not to be around black people in public, or 16 lives being lost and a total of 82 people (overwhelmingly African-American) being shot in one weekend due to disastrous educational and economic policies?

I guess it's the former.

(This article comes from a radical right-wing paper here. It's called the Los Angeles Times.)

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-chicago-shot-weekend-violence-20140707-story.html

That is half the story though. Of course I was outraged by the guy. I am outraged by racism. That is the worst kind of collectivism and as you know, I hate collectivism. But did you read the posts I wrote about the punishment Sterling got? I said explicitly I do not agree with anyone losing their jobs because of opinions they have, no matter how outrageous they might be. Nobody should be forced to sell their businesses because of what they said in a private conversation in the privacy of their own home. I find THAT outrageous as well.

Well, unfortunately, no one will ever care about your libertarian perspective. It has been and always will be irrelevant to anyone who is near power. The entire issue with Sterling was about so-called "racism" and "bigotry" and "prejudice", as defined by the priests and priestesses of the misnamed "multicultural" religion. You were in an irrelevant minority for saying that while you abhorred what Sterling was caught saying, you didn't think he should be forced to give up his business. Well, that only makes me chuckle. Consider these two examples:

1) Mark Cuban said exactly what you said, and ESPN - the new great wing of the anti-bigotry movement of American society - went after him with numerous headlines and editorials. All Cuban said was that in America, people should have the right to make fools of themselves with their words. The INTOLERANT, indoctrinated, shallow American media could have no time for such a balanced view, and Cuban was targeted for being a closet racist.

2) Rand Paul was utterly blasted by Rachel Maddow on MSNBC a couple years ago for saying that while he agreed with the vast majority of the 1964 Civil Rights Act provisions, he disagreed with the one that forced private businesses to admit customers they did not want to admit. He said about ten times that while he abhorred racism and considers it a poor business practice, he considered it immoral to force a business to accept any group of customers it would not want to cater to. Rachel kept pounding away at him and pounding away at him to make him look like a closet bigot who secretly resented black people - this coming from Rachel Maddow, who I am sure could relate to Marshawn Lynch and Adrian Peterson on a very personal level.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I was just glancing through the threads on this section of the website from recent months and I thought I would find a post from Broken, tented, Murat, Moxie, or others on this, but maybe I just missed it. The aforementioned were so piously and sanctimoniously outraged by Donald Sterling's remarks a few months back, showing so much concern for African-Americans, that I thought surely they would also bring to our attention the fact that over the July 4th weekend in Chicago, there were 82 shootings which resulted in 16 deaths. That was one weekend alone. I thought the aforementioned group might discuss the social policies that lead to this kind of dangerous and destructive environment, but again, I must have just missed it.

So what is worse: an 83-year-old Jewish lawyer who pays multiple African-Americans tens of millions of dollars telling his Hispanic mistress (who is secretly taping him) not to be around black people in public, or 16 lives being lost and a total of 82 people (overwhelmingly African-American) being shot in one weekend due to disastrous educational and economic policies?

I guess it's the former.

(This article comes from a radical right-wing paper here. It's called the Los Angeles Times.)

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-chicago-shot-weekend-violence-20140707-story.html

That is half the story though. Of course I was outraged by the guy. I am outraged by racism. That is the worst kind of collectivism and as you know, I hate collectivism. But did you read the posts I wrote about the punishment Sterling got? I said explicitly I do not agree with anyone losing their jobs because of opinions they have, no matter how outrageous they might be. Nobody should be forced to sell their businesses because of what they said in a private conversation in the privacy of their own home. I find THAT outrageous as well.

Well, unfortunately, no one will ever care about your libertarian perspective. It has been and always will be irrelevant to anyone who is near power. The entire issue with Sterling was about so-called "racism" and "bigotry" and "prejudice", as defined by the priests and priestesses of the misnamed "multicultural" religion. You were in an irrelevant minority for saying that while you abhorred what Sterling was caught saying, you didn't think he should be forced to give up his business. Well, that only makes me chuckle. Consider these two examples:

1) Mark Cuban said exactly what you said, and ESPN - the new great wing of the anti-bigotry movement of American society - went after him with numerous headlines and editorials. All Cuban said was that in America, people should have the right to make fools of themselves with their words. The INTOLERANT, indoctrinated, shallow American media could have no time for such a balanced view, and Cuban was targeted for being a closet racist.

2) Rand Paul was utterly blasted by Rachel Maddow on MSNBC a couple years ago for saying that while he agreed with the vast majority of the 1964 Civil Rights Act provisions, he disagreed with the one that forced private businesses to admit customers they did not want to admit. He said about ten times that while he abhorred racism and considers it a poor business practice, he considered it immoral to force a business to accept any group of customers it would not want to cater to. Rachel kept pounding away at him and pounding away at him to make him look like a closet bigot who secretly resented black people - this coming from Rachel Maddow, who I am sure could relate to Marshawn Lynch and Adrian Peterson on a very personal level.

Anytime what I believe is accepted by majority, I question my judgement.

 

[calitennis127]

As for Chicago issues, they exist on parallel universes with the Sterling issue and has to be debated on its own. I am all for that. Just today 3 people were gunned down in Toronto. And guns are illegal here. Go figure.

Good point about the gun control idea, but Chicago's violence is not at all unrelated to the Sterling matter. If the well-being of black people is such a concern, then what is happening in Chicago and other cities should be treated as much more serious than utterly irrelevant remarks from Sterling when he was in a hotel room with a 30-something mistress.

Has anyone showed how Sterling's remarks negatively and tangibly impacted the life of a single black person? I have yet to see any proof. If you dislike them, you move on. What I have heard from black friends, black acquaintances, black entertainers, and black athletes frankly makes Donald Sterling's comments seem like a little speck on a huge chalkboard.

Right now I live in the Philadelphia area and you can't flip on a radio station without hearing these lyrics from one huge radio song: "9-3-4, 8-6-1-6 I just gotta missed call from your b----". This is one of a countless number of examples of black people being completely unhinged in how they communicate to each other, but suddenly, when it comes to the Mike Brown or Donald Sterling matters, they are these innocent little 10-year-old kids who have never thought a bad thought in their lives. It is ridiculous. People need to toughen up. I really don't think that Donald Sterling's remarks are that serious when placed in the context of an age in which Kanye West makes songs with titles like "Black Skinhead". I just can't stand when people who have no connection to African-American attitudes at all try to comment on race issues in a pious way they consider pro-minority. I really just want to tell them all to shut up and get back to watching Friends.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

^ I agree with most of what you say. But you know as well as I do, the Sterling story is much more juicier , with its millionaire players and the Magic Johnson angle, than some random black dudes killing each other over who knows what. I am not saying I agree, I am just saying how things are. If you are asking me if I am oK with the hypocrisy, I am not.

 

[calitennis127]

^ I agree with most of what you say. But you know as well as I do, the Sterling story is much more juicier , with its millionaire players and the Magic Johnson angle, than some random black dudes killing each other over who knows what. I am not saying I agree, I am just saying how things are. If you are asking me if I am oK with the hypocrisy, I am not.

Well that is good. At least you recognize that 82 shootings in one weekend in one city is more significant than an old sleazebag lawyer running his mouth in private. :clap

 

[kskate2]

I get the gist of what you are saying about american sensibilities because the UK wasn't too far behind when I left there... but still find the two issues pretty isolated unless you think Tuskowitz had the answers to the social policy issues you mentioned.

1) Tuskowitz is by my definition a racist. Is he a "KKK" type racist. I doubt it... I'd imagine there is some scale to this sort of thing. Some people lose their jobs over comments I regard as little more than banter. Tuskowitz went beyond that... but still, it's a "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" type of situation (that's an old Brit rhyme BTW). People say a lot of things in private that they wouldn't say publically, so I'd also say Tuskowitz was stiched up by his GF. Not that I'd lose any sleep over it.

2) I'm not getting the connection with the riots and shootings and Tuskowitz. Are you a) saying he's right or b) trying to connect dots that seem miles apart. Is there any issue with left wing liberal social policy? Yes, plenty... but that horse bolted years ago. I'm not up to speed with all the shootings in Chicago but I'd also suggest the lack of leadership in the community would be obvious one. You can't blame everything on white left wing liberals... If things need fixing, a lot of it needs to start from within.

Britbox, the connection is this: there was an outpouring of self-righteous indignation at Sterling's comments, putatively because he had said something harmful to black people. Yet, there is nothing approaching the same outcry or righteous indignation when thousands of black people are harmed by the type of street violence that occurs in Chicago. The left refuses to acknowledge this reality because their concerns, as in the Sterling affair, Sterling's comments did not affect a single black life, except perhaps that of Magic Johnson, who has enough money and standing to get over a sleight (I think), while scores of black lives are either ended or severely damaged by the chaos in the ghettos

How do you know his comments didn't affect anyone's life?

 

[calitennis127]

I get the gist of what you are saying about american sensibilities because the UK wasn't too far behind when I left there... but still find the two issues pretty isolated unless you think Tuskowitz had the answers to the social policy issues you mentioned.

1) Tuskowitz is by my definition a racist. Is he a "KKK" type racist. I doubt it... I'd imagine there is some scale to this sort of thing. Some people lose their jobs over comments I regard as little more than banter. Tuskowitz went beyond that... but still, it's a "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" type of situation (that's an old Brit rhyme BTW). People say a lot of things in private that they wouldn't say publically, so I'd also say Tuskowitz was stiched up by his GF. Not that I'd lose any sleep over it.

2) I'm not getting the connection with the riots and shootings and Tuskowitz. Are you a) saying he's right or b) trying to connect dots that seem miles apart. Is there any issue with left wing liberal social policy? Yes, plenty... but that horse bolted years ago. I'm not up to speed with all the shootings in Chicago but I'd also suggest the lack of leadership in the community would be obvious one. You can't blame everything on white left wing liberals... If things need fixing, a lot of it needs to start from within.

Britbox, the connection is this: there was an outpouring of self-righteous indignation at Sterling's comments, putatively because he had said something harmful to black people. Yet, there is nothing approaching the same outcry or righteous indignation when thousands of black people are harmed by the type of street violence that occurs in Chicago. The left refuses to acknowledge this reality because their concerns, as in the Sterling affair, Sterling's comments did not affect a single black life, except perhaps that of Magic Johnson, who has enough money and standing to get over a sleight (I think), while scores of black lives are either ended or severely damaged by the chaos in the ghettos

How do you know his comments didn't affect anyone's life?

No one was killed. No one was shot. No one lost their job. No one was prevented from losing their job. There's a pretty long list I can make if you'd like.

 

[kskate2]

All those examples are assumptions. You don't know if his comments affected someone mentally or psychologically that could have manifested itself later.

 

[Riotbeard]

I see Cali's general point, and in general it is a good one, but once again it is lost in his hostile, attacking tone, that turns allies into enemies, before the conversation begins. I think (could be wrong) your point is that there is a double standard amongst liberal whites, who are big fans of public outcry for simple, fixable issue of one isolated racist says X, so let's figuratively drag him through the street. Then on the otherhand 10+ dead in one weekend is barely discussed. Criticizing someone for being racist is easy and self-congratulatory for your non-racistness, but actually dealing with this significant material issues requires getting off your arse.

I am a far lefty (left of liberal), and I have been saying this about liberals for some time, just that liberals attack language but for the most part leave the much more damaging conversation of structural racism untouched because it is harder to deal with and requires acknowledging core problems with American society not fixable in a news segment.

So I would say Cali's overall point holds some water. I pretty much feel the same thing as Murat on whether Sterling should have been fired. That being said, I don't think these two SPECIFIC stories are actually related. Also the fact that the media has double standard in no ways lets Sterling off the hook for being a creep. So your first post leads a lot of connections unsaid, because there is not direct relation, except in your mind and your general theory of American politics. Also let's be fair conservatives haven't made any more effort than liberals to fix crime in the southside of Chicago or in New Orleans where I live. Most likely, they have done even less.

 

[Billie]

You just have to get used to Cali, that's all, Riot. We all have our own quirks and ways of saying things, that is just our nature. I can sometimes be as sweet as anything, but sometimes I am a real bitch. :lolz:

Good thing I didn't see this before I left on my trip that included Chicago, otherwise I would have been more worried. Sometimes it is best when you don't know some things.

As for the topic, the outrage and the way they handled things regarding Sterling, for something he said in private, was way out of line. People say things in private that they wouldn't even think of saying in public, that still doesn't change what their "real' opinion of any matter is. Heck, even here posters say one thing in PMs and another when they post in public. :laydownlaughing

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

You just have to get used to Cali, that's all, Riot. We all have our own quirks and ways of saying things, that is just our nature. I can sometimes be as sweet as anything, but sometimes I am a real bitch. :lolz:

Good thing I didn't see this before I left on my trip that included Chicago, otherwise I would have been more worried. Sometimes it is best when you don't know some things.

As for the topic, the outrage and the way they handled things regarding Sterling, for something he said in private, was way out of line. People say things in private that they wouldn't even think of saying in public, that still doesn't change what their "real' opinion of any matter is. Heck, even here posters say one thing in PMs and another when they post in public. :laydownlaughing

posters do that do they ?..any vague examples ?.

 

[Billie]

^^ It's happened. My point is that everybody speaks differently in public than in private when it comes to certain topics. If nothing, we choose words more carefully when posting in public. Doesn't that happen to you?

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

^^ It's happened. My point is that everybody speaks differently in public than in private when it comes to certain topics. If nothing, we choose words more carefully when posting in public. Doesn't that happen to you?

no. I don't think so.