US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

This story about the Venezuelan boat that was blown up on Sept. 2nd, and the "double-strike" that killed the two remaining shipwrecked men, is becoming a real problem for Trump and especially for Hegseth. I think Hegseth's head is on the chopping block. There is already talk that Dan Driscoll, the Army secretary, who is close to Vance, will be the replacement. Hegseth, in turn, is trying to place the blame on Admiral Bradley, who is overseeing the operations in the Caribbean.

Even if the Administration can make the case that this is a war, (and only Congress can declare war,) even drug runners are still civilians, and it's illegal to kill them. And even beyond that, once you've sunk a ship, you can't go back and kill the survivors. That's known as a "double-strike," or a "double-tap" in military speak, and is prohibited. The code of military justice requires taking them as prisoners. So the killing of those two men is a war crime, or simply a crime.

Congress is holding hearings, led by a bipartisan pair to investigate the matter.

 

[Fiero425]

This story about the Venezuelan boat that was blown up on Sept. 2nd, and the "double-strike" that killed the two remaining shipwrecked men, is becoming a real problem for Trump and especially for Hegseth. I think Hegseth's head is on the chopping block. There is already talk that Dan Driscoll, the Army secretary, who is close to Vance, will be the replacement. Hegseth, in turn, is trying to place the blame on Admiral Bradley, who is overseeing the operations in the Caribbean.

Even if the Administration can make the case that this is a war, (and only Congress can declare war,) even drug runners are still civilians, and it's illegal to kill them. And even beyond that, once you've sunk a ship, you can't go back and kill the survivors. That's known as a "double-strike," or a "double-tap" in military speak, and is prohibited. The code of military justice requires taking them as prisoners. So the killing of those two men is a war crime, or simply a crime.

Congress is holding hearings, led by a bipartisan pair to investigate the matter.

I think we forgot; "W" Bush is officially a "war criminal!" He literally has to be careful going to countries w/ extradition treaties, doubling his Secret Service details while in Canada IIRC! We officially went over to the "dark side" & obviously still ignoring the CRIME of torture by way of "Renditions!" Black planes, sites of prisoners being tortured physically & mentally, then getting away w/ it just b/c it wasn't done on US soil; (that we know of)! I'm afraid to say Obama was little better trying to appease Republicans! He thought if he relented on some things, that they'd come around! It only emboldened them to be more disrespectful! Conservatives gave up on all pretense when it came to being politically correct! The Republican leaders all but called the man & his family "The N-word" to his face; actually calling him a liar in the middle of the SOTU! The guy was lauded & rewarded w/ political contributions! I was so done w/ that side of the aisle even though I was no fan of Obama! He should have bulldozed those idiots like Trump is doing now! He had the power to do things, but "shrinked back" trying to be the lone adult in the room! I can go on for days on the subject, but have totally w/d seeing it's only getting worse as time goes on w/ the blessing of the masses!

 

[Federberg]

This story about the Venezuelan boat that was blown up on Sept. 2nd, and the "double-strike" that killed the two remaining shipwrecked men, is becoming a real problem for Trump and especially for Hegseth. I think Hegseth's head is on the chopping block. There is already talk that Dan Driscoll, the Army secretary, who is close to Vance, will be the replacement. Hegseth, in turn, is trying to place the blame on Admiral Bradley, who is overseeing the operations in the Caribbean.

Even if the Administration can make the case that this is a war, (and only Congress can declare war,) even drug runners are still civilians, and it's illegal to kill them. And even beyond that, once you've sunk a ship, you can't go back and kill the survivors. That's known as a "double-strike," or a "double-tap" in military speak, and is prohibited. The code of military justice requires taking them as prisoners. So the killing of those two men is a war crime, or simply a crime.

Congress is holding hearings, led by a bipartisan pair to investigate the matter.

Hegseth is definitely in trouble, and it seems like the White House has subtly distanced themselves from it. The Admiral is probably in danger as well. It's not good enough to just say I was following orders

 

[Moxie]

Hegseth is definitely in trouble, and it seems like the White House has subtly distanced themselves from it. The Admiral is probably in danger as well. It's not good enough to just say I was following orders

This is exactly what that video was about, reminding armed services that they are actually obligated NOT to follow illegal orders. I hope Hegseth goes down. I'm afraid that Bradley will probably go down, too. Would be a sad end to a distinguished career, for Bradley, but he knew better. I just hope they don't make him the scapegoat and keep Hegseth, who is a waste of space.

 

[Moxie]

Someone I know posted this map on social media. I don't know the provenance, but I trust the guy. Let's pretend it's reasonably accurate. Most of these strikes were on ships very near the coast of Venezuela, then. So, why not fishing boats? Someone else pointed out, they seem to have a lot of people on board, for a drug running ship. Also, they are so small, how many times would they have to refuel before reaching the US?

Also, some expert I was listening to on the radio today was saying that even if they are running drugs, it's definitely cocaine, out of Venezuela, not fentanyl, which is what Trump claims (correctly) is what is killing so many Americans. And, this expert says that most cocaine going out of Venezuela goes to Europe.

Still trying to figure out our drug war with Venezuela.

 

[mrzz]

Totally unrelated to previous conversation here (sorry), as I rarely post on this thread as I have close to zero common ground with the regular posters here on these particular topics, and currently without the time and energy to try to find any. Just wanted to register my 'prediction': Trump doesn't end this term. He will explode the batshit crazy meter and then something will gotta give...

 

[Moxie]

Totally unrelated to previous conversation here (sorry), as I rarely post on this thread as I have close to zero common ground with the regular posters here on these particular topics, and currently without the time and energy to try to find any. Just wanted to register my 'prediction': Trump doesn't end this term. He will explode the batshit crazy meter and then something will gotta give...

He's talked about that, and also walked it back. Who knows where he'll be with it in a couple of years, or how much support he might have for a completely unconstitutional act? I would posit a reality on how that could happen, though: IF he should want to try to stay on, he has 2 options: 1) try to get the Constitution changed so he can run again. That would have to happen pretty fast, and I doubt it would have the support. 2) He can support whoever runs to succeed him on the Republican line, and then declare the election illegal and "stolen," whoever wins, refuse to leave office, and declare martial law. This would require the cooperation of the military. He'd also have to enjoy pretty healthy support from the American people, which he doesn't currently have. He'd also have to still be alive, which is also an unknown at this point.

He's already getting to fairly "batshit crazy," if you've listened to him lately. He's always spoken in word salads, but he's more incomprehensible than ever.

 

[Federberg]

He's talked about that, and also walked it back. Who knows where he'll be with it in a couple of years, or how much support he might have for a completely unconstitutional act? I would posit a reality on how that could happen, though: IF he should want to try to stay on, he has 2 options: 1) try to get the Constitution changed so he can run again. That would have to happen pretty fast, and I doubt it would have the support. 2) He can support whoever runs to succeed him on the Republican line, and then declare the election illegal and "stolen," whoever wins, refuse to leave office, and declare martial law. This would require the cooperation of the military. He'd also have to enjoy pretty healthy support from the American people, which he doesn't currently have. He'd also have to still be alive, which is also an unknown at this point.

He's already getting to fairly "batshit crazy," if you've listened to him lately. He's always spoken in word salads, but he's more incomprehensible than ever.

quite apart from his napping in televised Cabinet meetings, which we saw recently, it seems clear that there is an increasingly obvious physical deterioration. Re: a constitutional change that requires two thirds in the Senate right? So... utterly impossible

PS, why on earth aren't Dems using the tape to brand Trump like he did with 'Sleepy Joe'. They need to come up with something that's catchy. Tired Trump, Trump-napping (which has an immigration flavour to it?) I could go on, but you get the point. Dems are so bad at this!

 

[Federberg]

In case folks didn't see it...

 

[Federberg]

This is astonishing!

Which means that if you add Twitter, where his holding (due to the merger with the AI entity) is estimated at $70bn.. So.. $336bn (SpaceX) + $190bn (Tesla) + $70bn (Twitter) ~ $600bn... and we're not including his free cash and other investments! Definitely on track to be the first trillionaire...

 

[Moxie]

This is astonishing!

View attachment 10361

View attachment 10362

Which means that if you add Twitter, where his holding (due to the merger with the AI entity) is estimated at $70bn.. So.. $336bn (SpaceX) + $190bn (Tesla) + $70bn (Twitter) ~ $600bn... and we're not including his free cash and other investments! Definitely on track to be the first trillionaire...

Which is why he hitched his star to Trump. Everyone is wondering how to monetize moon minerals. Who owns the moon? It's not just that Musk has, and will have, an obscene amount of money. He still has an obscene amount of power.

 

[Moxie]

quite apart from his napping in televised Cabinet meetings, which we saw recently, it seems clear that there is an increasingly obvious physical deterioration. Re: a constitutional change that requires two thirds in the Senate right? So... utterly impossible

PS, why on earth aren't Dems using the tape to brand Trump like he did with 'Sleepy Joe'. They need to come up with something that's catchy. Tired Trump, Trump-napping (which has an immigration flavour to it?) I could go on, but you get the point. Dems are so bad at this!

"The Drowsy Don?" "The Droopy Don?" (More emasculating.) Sure, hang a tag on him, and keep it going. Newsom will do it.

I still hope that his sins against the country will hang him, though.

 

[Federberg]

Which is why he hitched his star to Trump. Everyone is wondering how to monetize moon minerals. Who owns the moon? It's not just that Musk has, and will have, an obscene amount of money. He still has an obscene amount of power.

In one respect Musk will be proved wrong and Bezos right. Musk thinks humanity should conquer Mars. Bezos is focusing on orbital cities around Earth. I think Bezos has a far greater chance of success. I don’t think Mars is even the first choice planetary structure, it’s probably one of Jupiters moons

 

[Moxie]

A woman in Minnesota, who signed up to be an "observer" or "watcher" when neighbors get take in ICE raids, was knocked down and arrested by ICE, taken into custody for 4 hours, held in leg shackles, her wedding ring cut off (no explanation for that), and a bit bruised up. Why? Seemingly for standing on a public street and asking if they were ICE. They told her to back off, and she didn't.

She can see the account, including video and interviews here:

Federal agents arrest citizen observer watching ICE detain neighbors on her north Minneapolis block

Susan Tincher, a 55-year-old American citizen, appears to be the first observer arrested by federal immigration enforcement officers since the agency launched an immigration surge in the Twin Cities last Monday.

www.mprnews.org

The government's position on what happened was other. They said she attacked an officer, broke a perimeter, ignored commands. However, as you can read in the above, the woman is 55, and 5'4". She was also unarmed, and you can see the state of armor in the officers.

ICE responds to KTTC request, provides different perspective on Minnesota woman’s detainment

Information shared by ICE late Thursday contradicts the story being told by a Minnesota woman detained by federal law enforcement earlier this week in Minneapolis.

www.kttc.com

This is getting close to police state kind of stuff. Whatever happened, it seems like a terrible overreaction.

 

[Kieran]

A woman in Minnesota, who signed up to be an "observer" or "watcher" when neighbors get take in ICE raids, was knocked down and arrested by ICE, taken into custody for 4 hours, held in leg shackles, her wedding ring cut off (no explanation for that), and a bit bruised up. Why? Seemingly for standing on a public street and asking if they were ICE. They told her to back off, and she didn't.

She can see the account, including video and interviews here:

Federal agents arrest citizen observer watching ICE detain neighbors on her north Minneapolis block

Susan Tincher, a 55-year-old American citizen, appears to be the first observer arrested by federal immigration enforcement officers since the agency launched an immigration surge in the Twin Cities last Monday.

www.mprnews.org

The government's position on what happened was other. They said she attacked an officer, broke a perimeter, ignored commands. However, as you can read in the above, the woman is 55, and 5'4". She was also unarmed, and you can see the state of armor in the officers.

ICE responds to KTTC request, provides different perspective on Minnesota woman’s detainment

Information shared by ICE late Thursday contradicts the story being told by a Minnesota woman detained by federal law enforcement earlier this week in Minneapolis.

www.kttc.com

This is getting close to police state kind of stuff. Whatever happened, it seems like a terrible overreaction.

Overreaction to what? People thinking it’s ok to attack and hinder law enforcement officers? I don’t remember them attacking ICE officials when Obama was doing the exact same thing…

 

[mrzz]

A woman in Minnesota, who signed up to be an "observer" or "watcher" when neighbors get take in ICE raids, was knocked down and arrested by ICE, taken into custody for 4 hours, held in leg shackles, her wedding ring cut off (no explanation for that), and a bit bruised up. Why? Seemingly for standing on a public street and asking if they were ICE. They told her to back off, and she didn't.

She can see the account, including video and interviews here:

Federal agents arrest citizen observer watching ICE detain neighbors on her north Minneapolis block

Susan Tincher, a 55-year-old American citizen, appears to be the first observer arrested by federal immigration enforcement officers since the agency launched an immigration surge in the Twin Cities last Monday.

www.mprnews.org

The government's position on what happened was other. They said she attacked an officer, broke a perimeter, ignored commands. However, as you can read in the above, the woman is 55, and 5'4". She was also unarmed, and you can see the state of armor in the officers.

ICE responds to KTTC request, provides different perspective on Minnesota woman’s detainment

Information shared by ICE late Thursday contradicts the story being told by a Minnesota woman detained by federal law enforcement earlier this week in Minneapolis.

www.kttc.com

This is getting close to police state kind of stuff. Whatever happened, it seems like a terrible overreaction.

Regarding this particular incident, problem is that there is no footage of the moments that led to her arrest. That is conveniently excluded. She does not deny that she broke the perimeter, and that she touched the federal agent before she was arrested. There is no evidence that she is not the cause of her own arrest, and even her own testimony seem to support that she is.

I guess she says something like "I am proud of what I did". All of that together indicates that she wasn't simply standing on the street and asking questions.

But do I think the agents are being nice? Hell no. But is it possible for them to be nice? Probably in most cases also no.

Overreaction? Possibly, but footage would help answer it, and there is context. In how many incidents before that agents were physically confronted? Their whole procedure is a direct consequence of that.

 

[Kieran]

Regarding this particular incident, problem is that there is no footage of the moments that led to her arrest. That is conveniently excluded. She does not deny that she broke the perimeter, and that she touched the federal agent before she was arrested. There is no evidence that she is not the cause of her own arrest, and even her own testimony seem to support that she is.

I guess she says something like "I am proud of what I did". All of that together indicates that she wasn't simply standing on the street and asking questions.

But do I think the agents are being nice? Hell no. But is it possible for them to be nice? Probably in most cases also no.

Overreaction? Possibly, but footage would help answer it, and there is context. In how many incidents before that agents were physically confronted? Their whole procedure is a direct consequence of that.

Oh the second article, in a video, says as much, that she became violent, as is the way of the self righteous left. And it also says that attacks on ICE agents are up by something like 1153% since 2024.

Now why is this? Because the left are violently anti-law and order, when it suits them. They don’t care about the people ICE are arresting, they care that there’s a Republican President doing it. There were no obstacles or violence when Obama did it…

 

[Federberg]

^I think you'll find that a lot of people who voted for Trump are saying they didn't sign up for what ICE is doing. I don't think it's accurate to frame this as a left vs right issue at this point..

 

[Kieran]

^I think you'll find that a lot of people who voted for Trump are saying they didn't sign up for what ICE is doing. I don't think it's accurate to frame this as a left vs right issue at this point..

That might be true but the left are playing this true to form: they cause trouble simply because a Republican president is doing this. When a Democrat president did the same, they were gushing over him. They don’t care about what Trump is doing, they care only that it’s him who’s doing it. They are the modern example of Marx’s permanent revolution…

 

[Moxie]

Regarding this particular incident, problem is that there is no footage of the moments that led to her arrest. That is conveniently excluded. She does not deny that she broke the perimeter, and that she touched the federal agent before she was arrested. There is no evidence that she is not the cause of her own arrest, and even her own testimony seem to support that she is.

The footage of her arrest might have been "conveniently" excluded, as you say, or it might not exist. So far, the footage we have seen, it seems, was taken by a bystander, (or fellow "observer") so they might not have started shooting until she was arrested. She did NOT say that she invaded any perimeter, or that she said she touched the officer. She said they asked her to back up, and she says she didn't. It seems she was on a public street.

I guess she says something like "I am proud of what I did". All of that together indicates that she wasn't simply standing on the street and asking questions.

By, "I'm proud of what I did," I take that to mean being a "watcher." There is no indication that she did more than that, except for what ICE said later, in a statement. But they have not yet provided their own footage of the incident, which Tim Walz, governor of Minnesota, as asked for.

But do I think the agents are being nice? Hell no. But is it possible for them to be nice? Probably in most cases also no.

I don't think they have to be "nice," but there is such a thing as excessive force, and police brutality. I would say both are in play here.

Overreaction? Possibly, but footage would help answer it, and there is context. In how many incidents before that agents were physically confronted? Their whole procedure is a direct consequence of that.

It depends on who you believe, as far as ICE officers facing violence. I have not seen much video evidence of it. Kristi Noem claims there is more, but that is not a person I believe. If her lips are moving, she's generally lying or exaggerating. It is the job of law enforcement to protect the safety of citizens and also non-citizens, not be the perpetrators of violence, or the escalators of it.