US Politics Thread

[Federberg]

Trump just bulldozed the East Wing of the White House. To build his ballroom. He said he wouldn't, and then he did.

Trump exposed a 'loophole' to demolish the White House East Wing. Here's what we know.

President Trump's demolition of the White House East Wing to make way for his new ballroom exposed a "loophole" in the nation's main preservation law.

www.usatoday.com

It seems symbolic of what he's doing to everything: our laws, our norms and our Constitution.

View attachment 10316

it's appalling but it's the ultimate troll to his enemies. I'm not in the least bit surprised

 

[Moxie]

Because “this woman” represents “these people” who are commonplace in the modern west. They’re the zombie parasites who have eaten the body of liberalism and turned it into an intolerant, smug, totalitarian machine. And they still don’t know why they lost the election.

I think it's slightly outrageous that you use this sluggish woman to stand in for every one of "these people" in the "modern west," as you suggest it. That's not just cherry-picking what you're looking for, it's lazy, and sincerely inaccurate. Come on. No large group is a monolith, in terms of opinion, and you're just looking for confirmation of your bias here. I'm rather bored and disillusioned that you guys keep bringing random crap off of the internet rather than engaging in conversation about what goes on amongst ourselves. Can't we just talk about it?

 

[Moxie]

it's appalling but it's the ultimate troll to his enemies. I'm not in the least bit surprised

A "troll?" It's an abomination. He's doing to the White House what he is doing to our country and our Constitution. OK, maybe a "troll" in the sense that it's an enormous "FUCK YOU" to the whole country. That he can demolish everything, because he has the power. He is seriously scary.

 

[Kieran]

I think it's slightly outrageous that you use this sluggish woman to stand in for every one of "these people" in the "modern west," as you suggest it. That's not just cherry-picking what you're looking for, it's lazy, and sincerely inaccurate. Come on. No large group is a monolith, in terms of opinion, and you're just looking for confirmation of your bias here. I'm rather bored and disillusioned that you guys keep bringing random crap off of the internet rather than engaging in conversation about what goes on amongst ourselves. Can't we just talk about it?

As I say, we have these types of people over here as well. They are reactionary and stupid. They have an activist mindset and they reject questions about their views as patriarchal colonial oppressive violence - because they haven’t a fricking clue. They think men can’t have a say on abortion because they don’t have a uterus but they can become a woman if they don’t have a uterus. They think borders are racism until they need borders to tell you you’re literally standing on some Native American tribes ground.

Etc. There’s nothing much to say. They’re a type, and you know they are…

 

[Federberg]

Anyone surprised? Stupid lefties!

 

[Federberg]

A "troll?" It's an abomination. He's doing to the White House what he is doing to our country and our Constitution. OK, maybe a "troll" in the sense that it's an enormous "FUCK YOU" to the whole country. That he can demolish everything, because he has the power. He is seriously scary.

That’s the point

 

[Moxie]

That’s the point

I know what you mean, I just think the word trivializes it. It's not big enough to contain the implications, IMO.

 

[Federberg]

I know what you mean, I just think the word trivializes it. It's not big enough to contain the implications, IMO.

I hear you. But I suspect that's the word that Trump would use in his private moments

 

[Moxie]

As I say, we have these types of people over here as well. They are reactionary and stupid. They have an activist mindset and they reject questions about their views as patriarchal colonial oppressive violence - because they haven’t a fricking clue. They think men can’t have a say on abortion because they don’t have a uterus but they can become a woman if they don’t have a uterus. They think borders are racism until they need borders to tell you you’re literally standing on some Native American tribes ground.

Etc. There’s nothing much to say. They’re a type, and you know they are…

You're complaining that she's pigeon-holed the guy from the coffee shop, and then you do the same thing to her. You even manage to shoe horn yet another of your trans-fearful comments, when all she's talking about is him being a Republican. Anyway, I don't why either of those people is worth your time, or why you 'd post their random opinions.

 

[Kieran]

You're complaining that she's pigeon-holed the guy from the coffee shop, and then you do the same thing to her. You even manage to shoe horn yet another of your trans-fearful comments, when all she's talking about is him being a Republican. Anyway, I don't why either of those people is worth your time, or why you 'd post their random opinions.

You might be “trans-fearful” yourself if you cared for the danger and damage done to young children by your side. The trans lobby seem to think that young girls and boys are up for grabs, the hell with the consequences. It’s frightening how far removed from a healthy, caring society these ghouls are. But typical of your party, you blame the people who call them out on it.

What was my “trans-fearful” comment? That the left are so weird that they’ll say men can’t comment on the abortion issue because they don’t have a uterus - while at the same time accepting men (still without the uterus) as actually being women? That the left have reached the stage that they think a woman is “somebody who identifies as a woman?”

Surely that’s not fearful, surely my view is common sense?

Surely you don’t believe that women can have a cock instead of a uterus? I would be very surprised if you said that in fact, they can. In that case I’d ask you, what is a woman?

 

[Moxie]

You might be “trans-fearful” yourself if you cared for the danger and damage done to young children by your side. The trans lobby seem to think that young girls and boys are up for grabs, the hell with the consequences. It’s frightening how far removed from a healthy, caring society these ghouls are. But typical of your party, you blame the people who call them out on it.

What was my “trans-fearful” comment? That the left are so weird that they’ll say men can’t comment on the abortion issue because they don’t have a uterus - while at the same time accepting men (still without the uterus) as actually being women? That the left have reached the stage that they think a woman is “somebody who identifies as a woman?”

Surely that’s not fearful, surely my view is common sense?

Surely you don’t believe that women can have a cock instead of a uterus? I would be very surprised if you said that in fact, they can. In that case I’d ask you, what is a woman?

What is "fearful" is that you insert it where it's not needed or germane, all the time. There is no "trans lobby," btw.

 

[Moxie]

Anyone surprised? Stupid lefties!

You bought what that guy said, just because he said it? And you think the lefties are stupid? He's a right-wing guy, and there are basic fallacies in each of his 5 points. Also, he claims to be repeating something from some unnamed operative? It's a conspiracy theory he's spouting, with a wildly right-wing bias. "Law and order is fascist"?! Give me a break. NO ONE believes that or espouses it, first of all. Sending the National Guard into US cities that don't really have a crime problem, however, IS pretty fascist. See the difference?

 

[Kieran]

What is "fearful" is that you insert it where it's not needed or germane, all the time. There is no "trans lobby," btw.

Oh sister, that’s like when Biden said that there’s no such anti-American violent militia called Antifa, “antifa is just an idea!”

 

[Moxie]

Oh sister, that’s like when Biden said that there’s no such anti-American violent militia called Antifa, “antifa is just an idea!”

Find me one then, and send a link. They have to register. Why don't you tell me what you think Antifia actually IS, then, while you're at it? Who runs it? "Violent militia?" "Militia?" Doesn't that imply armed? Have never seen that, nor heard of it with them.

 

[Kieran]

Find me one then, and send a link. They have to register. Why don't you tell me what you think Antifia actually IS, then, while you're at it? Who runs it? "Violent militia?" "Militia?" Doesn't that imply armed? Have never seen that, nor heard of it with them.

You know what I mean, you’re aware of your activist class of people who are endlessly disruptive, aggressive, intolerant and violent. Antifa are probably the most violent of them, and they exist.

Pushers of trans exist, and they lobby, bully and create carnage in their abuse of little children - something you should be concerned about, rather than defend it.

And yes, the right have violent militia proxies too. These groups exist. Biden said Antifa is just an idea. This was empty politicking and false. What is the only recognisable idea that is “Antifa”?

Facism.

But it’s not an idea, it’s a masked, violent organisation that’s encouraged by the Democrats to do their dirty work..

 

[Federberg]

You bought what that guy said, just because he said it? And you think the lefties are stupid? He's a right-wing guy, and there are basic fallacies in each of his 5 points. Also, he claims to be repeating something from some unnamed operative? It's a conspiracy theory he's spouting, with a wildly right-wing bias. "Law and order is fascist"?! Give me a break. NO ONE believes that or espouses it, first of all. Sending the National Guard into US cities that don't really have a crime problem, however, IS pretty fascist. See the difference?

ok I'll bite. Elaborate on the fallacies please.

I always find it amusing when either the left or the right claim that because something is from the other side it's automatically invalid. I don't believe that's the case.

It is my considered opinion that the right has been hoodwinked by Russian information warfare, and it's fairly obvious, we only have to see how supporters of Reagan's party can now spout anti-Ukraine nonsense without any shame. Funnily enough I believe most lefties would readily accept that. But I also believe that all of this cultural marxism nonsense, chicks with dicks for example are also a counter-intelligence weapon that the lefties ate up like candy. Both sides are as dumb as f--k in my humble opinion

 

[Moxie]

You know what I mean, you’re aware of your activist class of people who are endlessly disruptive, aggressive, intolerant and violent. Antifa are probably the most violent of them, and they exist.

So, then, you don't know. You're just parroting what you hear, which is outsized to what it is, and wrong. They DO actually subscribe to violence as one of their methods, though the most I've ever heard of tends to throwing bricks through store windows. I've never heard of them being armed. I've seen them a several protests, or may have, with the black bandannas, though only en masse, and with bandannas on their faces in DC in 2001, protesting the inauguration of GW Bush.

More than 100,000 people protested on No Kings Day on the 18th in NYC, and the NYPD reported no arrests. In fact, more than 8 million people protested around the US, and there were no arrests reported, including in Austin, LA, Chicago and other major cities.

Pushers of trans exist, and they lobby, bully and create carnage in their abuse of little children - something you should be concerned about, rather than defend it.

Surely they "lobby" for their rights, but I couldn't find a registered lobby/lobbyist. I don't defend it, I just call you out for trying to shoe-horn it into every conversation, when no one is even talking about it. And for making outrageous and unfounded statements about it.

And yes, the right have violent militia proxies too. These groups exist. Biden said Antifa is just an idea. This was empty politicking and false. What is the only recognisable idea that is “Antifa”?

Facism.

Well, at least you mentioned the right wing militias. And they ARE militias...they're armed. Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, KKK, National Socialist Movement, Folks Front, and the list goes on. By any statistic, right-wing groups are responsible for more than 60% of the political violence in the US, the left for about a 3rd. This information used to be on the Dept. of Justice website, but when Trump took office, they took it down. All those people Trump pardoned from the Jan. 6th insurrection. Obviously, it's in his interest to deflect attention to the much lesser threat from the left.

Of course Antifa exists, but it's a rather loose group, with no hierarchy. They are anti-fascists,

This is not a long article, and I would appreciate if you would read it. One thing it says is that, from 1994 to 2020, one person died in Antifa-related violence, and the person who died was the attacker, i.e., Antifa. Didn't say if they were shot by police.

Trump frequently accuses the far-left of inciting violence, yet right-wing extremists have killed 329 victims in the last 25 years, while antifa members haven't killed any, according to a new study

Counter-terrorism expert Seth Jones, who helped create the dataset, told The Guardian: "Left-wing violence has not been a major terrorism threat."

www.businessinsider.com

But it’s not an idea, it’s a masked, violent organisation that’s encouraged by the Democrats to do their dirty work..

As I said, I haven't seen them masked, personally, in 25 years. And you totally made that up about the Democrats. Try to be more factual.

 

[Moxie]

ok I'll bite. Elaborate on the fallacies please.

I always find it amusing when either the left or the right claim that because something is from the other side it's automatically invalid. I don't believe that's the case.

It is my considered opinion that the right has been hoodwinked by Russian information warfare, and it's fairly obvious, we only have to see how supporters of Reagan's party can now spout anti-Ukraine nonsense without any shame. Funnily enough I believe most lefties would readily accept that. But I also believe that all of this cultural marxism nonsense, chicks with dicks for example are also a counter-intelligence weapon that the lefties ate up like candy. Both sides are as dumb as f--k in my humble opinion

Damn! Now I have to watch it again. I did elaborate on one already, i.e., that law and order is fascist. No one thinks that. And gave you a helpful example of what Trump's trumped-up fake news about lawlessness in US (blue) cities has led to, which IS fascist, in the form of sending US troops after its own people.

So, his guiding premise is that it's easier to change a young mind that an old one. We can agree on that, though I'm sure he meant to say "influence" a young mind, because that's what he's talking about.

His second point is "Normalizing the Abnormal," and leaps straight to a man going in a woman's bathroom, and playing women's sports. Niche choice, but also a very right-wing bugaboo. What about everything Trump has done in politics to "normalize the abnormal?" He has tossed norms of public behavior out the window for years. A guy pays off a porn star and still gets elected to be President. He's also wholesale ignoring laws and the courts in the choices he's making in this term. These things are FAR more important.

He says "Crisis is the Key" to Marxism...convince people that the country is falling apart. I'm sorry, but that is straight out of Trump's playbook, not some Marxist one. He's had a negative, pessimistic, even nihilistic view of the future of this country his entire political life.

He talks about "them" (I guess meaning these "operatives?") targeting schools, and mentions teachers unions and school boards more than once. Teachers' unions?! Who is actually trying to hold the line in all of this craziness or banning books and not wanting to teach the Civil War anymore?

He also says that Fascism is anyone who doesn't believe in law and order, and doesn't believe in a Judeo-Christian society. I don't think that's the definition, but I also don't think, as I mentioned above, that a) anyone doesn't "believe" in law and order, (OK, the odd anarchist, but we don't have many and b) that this is not established as a Judeo-Christian society, and not thinking it should be is NOT a fascist notion. Right? You can agree with that.

In the context of children, he does mention video games, and there I think he is right that they can be ripe for influence, but I'm no expert on this. He mentioned a bullet that said "Catch this, Fascist," which I think references the guy who shot Charlie Kirk. I don't know if I said this earlier, though I meant to, in that there seemed to be a lot of things that that killer referenced in terms of video games, like "Bella Ciao." Not sure how to put that all together, but I think there is something in there.

Yes, it seems that Russian propaganda has made its way in, to some extent, though anti-Ukraine speech comes directly from the King of Maga, too. He's been mad at Ukraine since Zelensky refused to help him on the Hunter Biden stuff years ago, which he got impeached for. That's what turned "the party of Reagan," as you call them, towards Putin and the Russians. Because Trump loves Putin. He loves a strongman. He loves Orban.

If you believe that things like trans-rights are just a counter-intelligence plant, I really thing that's tinfoil hat stuff. This is a huge country. Neither right nor left are a monolith. You surprise me at your willingness to see a conspiracy.

 

[Kieran]

They DO actually subscribe to violence as one of their methods, though the most I've ever heard of tends to throwing bricks through store windows. I've never heard of them being armed. I've seen them a several protests, or may have, with the black bandannas, though only en masse, and with bandannas on their faces in DC in 2001, protesting the inauguration of GW Bush.

This is the benign, democrat party version what they do. “Some people did some stuff” (Ilhan Omar on the terrorist attack on your city), “mostly peaceful riots”, that kind of rhetoric.

They always cover their faces. They’re always violent, and threatening violence.

, I just call you out for trying to shoe-horn it into every conversation, when no one is even talking about it. And for making outrageous and unfounded statements about it.

I don’t bring trans into every conversation, just every now and then to remind you of how nuts and unelectable the left is.

Of course Antifa exists, but it's a rather loose group, with no hierarchy. They are anti-fascists,

This is not a long article, and I would appreciate if you would read it. One thing it says is that, from 1994 to 2020, one person died in Antifa-related violence, and the person who died was the attacker, i.e., Antifa. Didn't say if they were shot by police.

Trump frequently accuses the far-left of inciting violence, yet right-wing extremists have killed 329 victims in the last 25 years, while antifa members haven't killed any, according to a new study

Counter-terrorism expert Seth Jones, who helped create the dataset, told The Guardian: "Left-wing violence has not been a major terrorism threat."

www.businessinsider.com

There’s been an a lot of Business Insider articles yanked, and they quote The Guardian in the little window there. I’ll try find time later, but I’m not being evasive when I say that I’m under extreme time pressure now.

As I said, I haven't seen them masked, personally, in 25 years. And you totally made that up about the Democrats. Try to be more factual.

They always cover their faces, as do all your protesters now, which I think should be illegal. If you’re going to protest, show your face, tell us who you are.

Biden saying they don’t exist is literally him giving them Carte Blanche. “They’re just an idea”.

Just because they call themselves anti-fascists does not mean they’re anti-fascist…

 

[Federberg]

Damn! Now I have to watch it again. I did elaborate on one already, i.e., that law and order is fascist. No one thinks that. And gave you a helpful example of what Trump's trumped-up fake news about lawlessness in US (blue) cities has led to, which IS fascist, in the form of sending US troops after its own people.

So, his guiding premise is that it's easier to change a young mind that an old one. We can agree on that, though I'm sure he meant to say "influence" a young mind, because that's what he's talking about.

His second point is "Normalizing the Abnormal," and leaps straight to a man going in a woman's bathroom, and playing women's sports. Niche choice, but also a very right-wing bugaboo. What about everything Trump has done in politics to "normalize the abnormal?" He has tossed norms of public behavior out the window for years. A guy pays off a porn star and still gets elected to be President. He's also wholesale ignoring laws and the courts in the choices he's making in this term. These things are FAR more important.

He says "Crisis is the Key" to Marxism...convince people that the country is falling apart. I'm sorry, but that is straight out of Trump's playbook, not some Marxist one. He's had a negative, pessimistic, even nihilistic view of the future of this country his entire political life.

He talks about "them" (I guess meaning these "operatives?") targeting schools, and mentions teachers unions and school boards more than once. Teachers' unions?! Who is actually trying to hold the line in all of this craziness or banning books and not wanting to teach the Civil War anymore?

He also says that Fascism is anyone who doesn't believe in law and order, and doesn't believe in a Judeo-Christian society. I don't think that's the definition, but I also don't think, as I mentioned above, that a) anyone doesn't "believe" in law and order, (OK, the odd anarchist, but we don't have many and b) that this is not established as a Judeo-Christian society, and not thinking it should be is NOT a fascist notion. Right? You can agree with that.

In the context of children, he does mention video games, and there I think he is right that they can be ripe for influence, but I'm no expert on this. He mentioned a bullet that said "Catch this, Fascist," which I think references the guy who shot Charlie Kirk. I don't know if I said this earlier, though I meant to, in that there seemed to be a lot of things that that killer referenced in terms of video games, like "Bella Ciao." Not sure how to put that all together, but I think there is something in there.

Yes, it seems that Russian propaganda has made its way in, to some extent, though anti-Ukraine speech comes directly from the King of Maga, too. He's been mad at Ukraine since Zelensky refused to help him on the Hunter Biden stuff years ago, which he got impeached for. That's what turned "the party of Reagan," as you call them, towards Putin and the Russians. Because Trump loves Putin. He loves a strongman. He loves Orban.

If you believe that things like trans-rights are just a counter-intelligence plant, I really thing that's tinfoil hat stuff. This is a huge country. Neither right nor left are a monolith. You surprise me at your willingness to see a conspiracy.

@Moxie and I say this in absolute seriousness.... believing a chick can have a dick is as tin foil hat as it gets. It makes far more sense, seems far more credible that there might be a secret powerful cabal running things in the background. I actually don't believe in either of those scenarios, so... which one of us is wearing the tin foil hat?

By the way... I don't have to believe or support everything the guy says. Do I believe that universities in the West might have been infiltrated by Communist/ex-Communist counter-intelligence operatives? ABSOLUTELY! You would be foolish not expect that. There was no way the communists could have challenged the West militarily, so it was patently obvious that some sort of asymmetric counter-measures would be attempted. Are you seriously telling me that you don't understand or appreciate that?