US Politics Thread

[GameSetAndMath]

I’d love to add Buttigieg, but I don’t think he’ll make it in the top slot. My dream team (for now, at least) would be Harris/Buttigieg. They would have it all: female/male, black/white, straight/gay, coastal/midwest.

Is one of them left handed and the other right handed? :scratch:

Seriously, I really hate this kind of balancing. One does not have to have a female in the ticket to have policies that are supportive of women. One does not have to have a black person in the ticket to have policies that promotes their position etc.

Conversely, one could have a gay in the ticket and yet their policies might be anti-gay. One could have rural person in the ticket and yet their policies could be against welfare of farmers.

One should really go beyond personality politics.

 

[tented]

Is one of them left handed and the other right handed? :scratch:

Seriously, I really hate this kind of balancing. One does not have to have a female in the ticket to have policies that are supportive of women. One does not have to have a black person in the ticket to have policies that promotes their position etc.

Conversely, one could have a gay in the ticket and yet their policies might be anti-gay. One could have rural person in the ticket and yet their policies could be against welfare of farmers.

One should really go beyond personality politics.

You’re thinking too logically. If most people voted based on logic, we wouldn’t have Donald Trump, a reality TV star, in the White House.

 

[Federberg]

Ok... these Dem Presidential candidates are now officially out of hand. Bill De Blasio? Are you freaking kidding me? Even folks in New York don't want him to run. I'm getting a sense that a lot of these guys are doing this not with any sincere intention to win but to line themselves up for cabinet positions

 

[atttomole]

Ok... these Dem Presidential candidates are now officially out of hand. Bill De Blasio? Are you freaking kidding me? Even folks in New York don't want him to run. I'm getting a sense that a lot of these guys are doing this not with any sincere intention to win but to line themselves up for cabinet positions

It is becoming theatrical. Voters will not have enough time to listen to all of them, and even if they try to listen, they will not be able to remember who said what.

 

[britbox]

Ok... these Dem Presidential candidates are now officially out of hand. Bill De Blasio? Are you freaking kidding me? Even folks in New York don't want him to run. I'm getting a sense that a lot of these guys are doing this not with any sincere intention to win but to line themselves up for cabinet positions

Just waiting for Hillary to throw her hat in and then we can sit back and listen to some music from Benny Hill.

 

[Federberg]

I've admired Pelosi's political savvy a lot since her Speakership started this year. But now I have to say... I think it is beyond politics. The Dems have to initiate impeachment proceedings. The very nature of the relationship between the Article 1 and 2 branches will be forever changed. I know she's afraid of getting her clock cleaned in 2020, but this is at the core of what the people's House was created. She simply cannot shirk the responsibility or voters are entitled to ask the question.. "what good are you as a check and balance, why should I even bother voting for you?"

This whole thing has got me thinking about why Republicans tend to win these sorts of fights against the Dems. I think it's quite simple really. You always get the feeling that there is political calculation behind Dem actions. Republicans just say fk it... this is what we believe. People respect them for it. Granted they get it badly wrong some times. I think this Alabama abortion thing (a doctor assisting an abortion could potentially be jailed for longer than the rapist that has impregnated a woman) for example is going to be terrible politics for Republicans. But generally even when Dems have the moral high ground they execute from a political perspective not from conviction. It just leaves a funny taste in the mouth. Dems will regret this for all time if they don't stop acting like total pussies and do their jobs

 

[Federberg]

Most of us have marvelled at how Trump has managed to con the American people. But this new narrative that an impeachment fight will be good for Trump, may well be the slickest con job by the orange buffoon yet. And what gets me is that the Dem leadership is falling for it

I repeat... the GOP didn't suffer for it the House elections. And Clinton was fundamentally more popular than Trump is. And that's not even including the fact that he continued to work for people during the impeachment process. Trump is doing none of that.

 

[Federberg]

It seems to me that after Mueller's resignation speech that Dems have no choice but to impeach. It has to be a case of when not if. How much more clear could he be. He said if he could have exonerated the President he would have, but he could not! It's clear. I appreciate the political calculation but at this point I am starting to loathe political calculation. Frankly if Dems don't do something soon then the Dem Leaders in the House will be as derelict in their constitutional obligations as Barr and Trump are.

 

[Federberg]

https://www.gq.com/story/democrats-impeaching-trump

 

[britbox]

The Dems are pissing in the wind because they're trying to win over completely the wrong crowd... people who are already won over and want to take Trump down. They're rubber stamping a section of the electorate that they've won already.

There is probably around 40% of the electorate that they'll have zero impact on - who would vote for Trump even if he suffocated his own child with a pillow live on Fox News.

Then you have about 20% in the middle. Most of whom I guess are tired of this shit and want a positive message going forward with solutions to real problems. The Dems are making the same mistake they made during the Clinton campaign... it's a negative campaign based on Trump and Trump's shortcomings.

That won't win the day... expect Trump to be re-elected unless there is an about-turn in the rhetoric and the Dems start offering some sort of positive vision for the future. It likely won't happen and then we'll have a bunch of people wandering around on forums and social media acting all confused, blaming Russia and all sorts of other silly crap... while the Don is sitting there in the Whitehouse for another term.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

pelosi is playing the long game with trump and his criminal cohorts..and keeping the temperature down as she tries to reign in the more excitable members of her party..shouting for impeachment now..

there are so many things going on behind the scenes with indictments/etc, it just looks like not much is happening just now, o_O

and folk say the muller report will be referenced against trump as things go forward.

think of trump crimes like he is the titanic and the muller report is the iceberg, trump has hit the iceberg but we are still at the stage where people think no damage has been done and the titantc is ok..

.........but we all know how that ended up. (pelosi is the water, starting to pour in).

 

[Federberg]

The Dems are pissing in the wind because they're trying to win over completely the wrong crowd... people who are already won over and want to take Trump down. They're rubber stamping a section of the electorate that they've won already.

There is probably around 40% of the electorate that they'll have zero impact on - who would vote for Trump even if he suffocated his own child with a pillow live on Fox News.

Then you have about 20% in the middle. Most of whom I guess are tired of this shit and want a positive message going forward with solutions to real problems. The Dems are making the same mistake they made during the Clinton campaign... it's a negative campaign based on Trump and Trump's shortcomings.

That won't win the day... expect Trump to be re-elected unless there is an about-turn in the rhetoric and the Dems start offering some sort of positive vision for the future. It likely won't happen and then we'll have a bunch of people wandering around on forums and social media acting all confused, blaming Russia and all sorts of other silly crap... while the Don is sitting there in the Whitehouse for another term.

I always love to hear your take. There's some sense to it, the Dems are not winning the message battle. They have actually put through a ton of legislation that is consistent with their agenda. They're shockingly bad at getting the electorate aware of it. McConnell refuses to vote on anything they send to the Senate. It's interesting that you think they haven't been doing anything else but all this Trump stuff, but I know the type of Kool-aid you like to drink so I'm not surprised I do take issue with the idea that this is just politics, Trump is lawless, the Mueller Report has shown that there is incontrovertible evidence of crimes, in both volume 1 and 2. The obstruction allegations are damning by themselves. What I find really disturbing is the fact that the Senate is complicit in changing the nature of the US Presidency. For that reason and that reason alone the Dems simply have to push through with impeachment. The US Constitution was never meant to permit a unitary Presidency. That's why they had a civil war, no kings! I'm intrigued to see how Pelosi's strategy plays out, I just find Dems so weak and so ostentatiously calculating. They need to get some GOP style ruthlessness to get the job done. As for the outcome of the election in 2020? Trump has an ace in his hand with the strength of the US economy but he's doing his darnedest to sabotage it with this tariff stuff. The China tariffs are bad enough, but trying that with Mexico is flat out suicidal. Bond markets are already starting to signal the economy is likely to slow quickly. If that's his case then he might not have cover with the Senate anymore. At that point they would be forced to look out for their own electoral fates. It's so tough to peer into the future and see how this all plays out. But I'll repeat something I said to you a long time ago. A US President overseeing an economy that's steaming along with full employment should have higher poll numbers than he does. We are likely to see something that should never happen... history says Trump shouldn't lose in 2020, but right now it looks like he probably will...

 

[britbox]

Humour me, Trump aside - what is the Dem's agenda?

 

[Federberg]

Humour me, Trump aside - what is the Dem's agenda?

that's a pretty surprising question! In no particular order

(1) Health care (2) sensible gun control (3) voting rights (4) Climate change.

Note that I wrote this down without giving it much thought at all. They go on about this stuff all the time. And they have put through between 100 and 200 pieces of legislation so far in furtherance of this

 

[Jelenafan]

If the economy slips Trump is certainly vulnerable.

It’s not a slam dunk either way.

 

[Federberg]

I have to say this Missouri assault on Roe vs Wade is horrifying to me. As I understand it, State regulators have now imposed a requirement that women seeking abortions in Missouri must have a pelvic exam before an abortion. This is effectively a State sanctioning an invasive vaginal exam with no medical basis. Now I understand that some women might be pro-Life, but surely this is simply too much. Are those female voters really ok with such a violation in furtherance of their cause?

 

[Moxie]

I have to say this Missouri assault on Roe vs Wade is horrifying to me. As I understand it, State regulators have now imposed a requirement that women seeking abortions in Missouri must have a pelvic exam before an abortion. This is effectively a State sanctioning an invasive vaginal exam with no medical basis. Now I understand that some women might be pro-Life, but surely this is simply too much. Are those female voters really ok with such a violation in furtherance of their cause?

I have no words for this, and can't explain the thinking of women on the anti-abortion side of the debate. I was listening to a piece on the radio this morning about the history of the rifts, etc., and there was a GOP operative who identified abortion as an issue they could use to politicize the white evangelicals. At that point in time, Roe and abortion polled generally that people were in favor, and let people make their own decisions. But when the GOP seized on it, cynically, as a political tool, they created the Moral Majority, and we got Reagan. And so on from there...

 

[Moxie]

that's a pretty surprising question! In no particular order

(1) Health care (2) sensible gun control (3) voting rights (4) Climate change.

Note that I wrote this down without giving it much thought at all. They go on about this stuff all the time. And they have put through between 100 and 200 pieces of legislation so far in furtherance of this

Health care will be #1. It's a huge issue in this country because it's so expensive. Trump trying to dismantle "Obamacare" has been a misstep for him. He fails to realize how much of his base was helped by Obamacare, and he's been tin-earred as to what they'd except as an alternative. Elizabeth Warren is a leader in regulation of banks and Wall Street, and overall, I think the Democrats would roll back some of the tax breaks that Trump is giving to the biggest corporations and the 1%-ers. That, in addition to what Federberg said. Except gun control. It's never been sensible to address it on the national level in the US. While the climate may be favorable to more restrictions, it has always been deemed best dealt with on a state-by-state basis. You talk about people's guns, and you step on the 3rd rail, when there is little that can be done by a President. No benefit, only down-side. The only thing that can be done on the Federal level is probably to help consolidate databases. If someone is denied a gun in one state, (for mental health issues, or domestic violence complaints, etc.) then another state ought to know that. At this point in time, the NRA has basically blocked that. They may talk about that, as this would appeal to young voters, at the very least.

 

[tented]

Health care will be #1. It's a huge issue in this country because it's so expensive. Trump trying to dismantle "Obamacare" has been a misstep for him. He fails to realize how much of his base was helped by Obamacare, and he's been tin-earred as to what they'd except as an alternative.

True, but the problem is a lot of these voters don’t even realize they’ve been helped by Obamacare. When asked whether they think it should be eliminated, they say yes; when asked if the Affordable Care Act (i.e., Obamacare) should be eliminated, they say no.

 

[Moxie]

True, but the problem is a lot of these voters don’t even realize they’ve been helped by Obamacare. When asked whether they think it should be eliminated, they say yes; when asked if the Affordable Care Act (i.e., Obamacare) should be eliminated, they say no.

Yes, I realize. They are likely the same people who say "Get your government hands off my Medicare." I only call it that because it's easy. I don't expect some people to ever give Obama credit, but the point is that when people got healthcare protection, you can't put that genie back in the bottle, and they will realize that the care has been diminished, and is more expensive, so it will be an issue in the next election, and I don't think it's something that Trump handles well.