US Politics Thread

Federberg

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Well for the officer, whatever direction she was fleeing from the crime, she hit him. Hitting him with the car cannot be interpreted favourably on her part. After this, she might have been a threat to anyone on that street. How could her know differently? She held the agents in contempt.

But I agree with you totally, this one is going to run and run, and it’s hard to get my friends on the left even to agree that hitting him with the car was a bad thing..
lol! Except I'm not on the left. I'm as conservative as the next guy. Old school conservative, rule of law and all that. I won't subvert my free will and common sense to support any party, left or right. For me, their policies are what I care about. If the left do something crazy I'll call it out, but if the right does something stupid, I've got exactly the same energy. The incident isn't a left or right issue, how people relate or interpret it however, is clearly political at this point sadly
 
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Kieran

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lol! Except I'm not on the left. I'm as conservative as the next guy. Old school conservative, rule of law and all that. I won't subvert my free will and common sense to support any party, left or right. For me, their policies are what I care about. If the left do something crazy I'll call it out, but if the right does something stupid, I've got exactly the same energy. The incident isn't a left or right issue, how people relate or interpret it however, is clearly political at this point sadly
Oh I didn’t mean that directed at you! You’re as sound as can be, because you weigh these things based on their merits and apply a reasonable approach to your conclusions. I wasn’t even directing it at our dyed in the wool resident dems here. I was referring to my own brother, his gf and other friends in Ireland (virtually all of them) etc, who are simply regurgitating leftist talking points on this.

Sorry of you felt I meant you! I think we agree about a thousand percent on main issues, and I certainly agree that this isn’t a left-right issue, but it’s exacerbated by tribalist commentary…
 
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Federberg

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Oh I didn’t mean that directed at you! You’re as sound as can be, because you weigh these things based on their merits and apply a reasonable approach to your conclusions. I wasn’t even directing it at our dyed in the wool resident dems here. I was referring to my own brother, his gf and other friends in Ireland (virtually all of them) etc, who are simply regurgitating leftist talking points on this.

Sorry of you felt I meant you! I think we agree about a thousand percent on main issues, and I certainly agree that this isn’t a left-right issue, but it’s exacerbated by tribalist commentary…
no worries at all mate.

This is starting to have unintended consequences...

1768304265441.jpeg


 
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lomaha

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I think Trump is being Trump and trying to negotiate. I don't believe he'll actually try to attack. It's completely unnecessary as I think the Danes would have been happy to entertain more US bases in Greenland. I think this is primarily domestic signalling and posturing for China and Russia because of Arctic security concerns. Justified concerns actually. But as usual Trump might be right with his concerns but appalling in the execution. Even presenting this possibility of an invasion has already been highly damaging to NATO. The reality as we all know is that whatever Trump even tried to do in Greenland would have to be ratified in Congress and there's zero chance of a two thirds majority in the Senate which I believe would be required for something like this
You do know that the US have had 10 bases on Greenland but they closed them all by them selves. So if there's a risk in Greenland - why have they withdrawn from there in the first place?
 

Federberg

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You do know that the US have had 10 bases on Greenland but they closed them all by them selves. So if there's a risk in Greenland - why have they withdrawn from there in the first place?
Yes... I do know :) Not quite sure what your point is? I'm not part of his National Security team :face-with-tears-of-joy:
 

Kieran

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no worries at all mate.

This is starting to have unintended consequences...

View attachment 10400


It’s funny, I haven’t been to America since 2009. I wanted to go in 2010 for the USI but the missus preferred Sicily. Well done, missus, Rafa achieved the career slam in 2010. There were later thoughts to go there but other places enticed us more. But now, I’ve no interest.

And it’s not because of Trump, ICE or any of that stuff. Partly because, let’s face it, it used to be cheaper, but also because of their deranged politics. Maybe social media has driven people over the edge, but everything and everyone seems politicised.

Example, my good friend of 13 years is of Vietnamese origin, born in America, married and living in Denver. Recently she started a new job, and soon after there was a bit of a do in the job, families included. She texted me and said she was annoyed, her director is Jewish and her husband was wearing a Free Palestine t-shirt to the party.

I asked her, WTF does he think he’s achieving by this? She was confused by the question. She replied, “activism.”

This was the level of the conversation. This is the low level of thought. I don’t even think she saw the bigotry in what he was doing, she just thought that he chose the wrong time and place.
 

Federberg

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It’s funny, I haven’t been to America since 2009. I wanted to go in 2010 for the USI but the missus preferred Sicily. Well done, missus, Rafa achieved the career slam in 2010. There were later thoughts to go there but other places enticed us more. But now, I’ve no interest.

And it’s not because of Trump, ICE or any of that stuff. Partly because, let’s face it, it used to be cheaper, but also because of their deranged politics. Maybe social media has driven people over the edge, but everything and everyone seems politicised.

Example, my good friend of 13 years is of Vietnamese origin, born in America, married and living in Denver. Recently she started a new job, and soon after there was a bit of a do in the job, families included. She texted me and said she was annoyed, her director is Jewish and her husband was wearing a Free Palestine t-shirt to the party.

I asked her, WTF does he think he’s achieving by this? She was confused by the question. She replied, “activism.”

This was the level of the conversation. This is the low level of thought. I don’t even think she saw the bigotry in what he was doing, she just thought that he chose the wrong time and place.
lol! It's crazy.

For my part, I haven't been to the US since about 2014. And even then it was business, and paid by another company. Even overlooking the safety concerns, the main thing that's put me off is the cost! I was happy to visit when the exchange rate was 1.60 or better. But the thought of staying in hotels like Gramercy Park or Gansevoort in New York (the last two places I stayed on my dime) now horrify me! They weren't cheap then but with the exchange rate plus inflation, I can imagine a financial colonoscopy :face-with-tears-of-joy:

I don't understand why people feel they have to throw their politics in your face these days. But it's like the George Carlin thing you posted. It's their identity now...
 
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lomaha

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Yes... I do know :) Not quite sure what your point is? I'm not part of his National Security team :face-with-tears-of-joy:
You just wrote that you" thought the Danes would be happy to entertain more bases on Greenland" and I just wanted to clarify that they already did that.

The previous leadership of Greenland's flirtation with Russia and China has not done anything good for the cooperation between NATO and the US, but the current leadership has no intention of letting either Russia or China invest in the country.In the meantime Russia and China (and everyone besides the left wing in Greenland) has also found out that there is not much of value in the subsoil of Greenland.
 

PhiEaglesfan712

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no worries at all mate.

This is starting to have unintended consequences...

View attachment 10400


This is a massive overreaction. We have had World Cups in Brazil, Russia, and Qatar, far worse political climates than the United States. If those World Cups went on as scheduled (and people attended), I'm sure there should be no problem getting people to attend the World Cup here in the US.
 

Federberg

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You just wrote that you" thought the Danes would be happy to entertain more bases on Greenland" and I just wanted to clarify that they already did that.

The previous leadership of Greenland's flirtation with Russia and China has not done anything good for the cooperation between NATO and the US, but the current leadership has no intention of letting either Russia or China invest in the country.In the meantime Russia and China (and everyone besides the left wing in Greenland) has also found out that there is not much of value in the subsoil of Greenland.
yes, the fact that they have already accommodated bases on Greenland, and that Denmark is a NATO ally, it's reasonable to conclude that Denmark would be happy to entertain bases there.

I believe that Greenland does have some mineral resources, rare earth metals actually. The problem is that extraction is more challenging than the obvious alternatives. So there's definitely value there. One suspects that apart from securing the Arctic corridor, China's interest might be more about controlling access to those mineral resources than actually exploiting it themselves. After all they have significant resources domestically.
 

Federberg

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This is a massive overreaction. We have had World Cups in Brazil, Russia, and Qatar, far worse political climates than the United States. If those World Cups went on as scheduled (and people attended), I'm sure there should be no problem getting people to attend the World Cup here in the US.
I think the issue is more about the price than the politics to be honest mate. People will frame things to suit their politics though
 

Moxie

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Ok, hear me out.

First off, I don’t know what his being Israeli has to do with it, but anyway.
Israelis know that cops mean business, as do Black men in this country. As I said, I don't know if it meant anything. At the time, I wondered, though. I knew a guy who got into serious trouble getting out of Israel at the airport, just for having a Palestinian keffiyeh that he bought as a souvenir. US passport, but swarthy looking. They held him for hours. And I've had to deal with Israeli security in the US when I've tried to film at the Israeli embassy. They don't fool around.
But he was wise. And bear this in mind - as you know, the 10 and 2 is meant to help the officer see the driver isn’t a threat to them. Imagine how reassuring that is to an officer, in a country with so many guns.
I absolutely understand that.
But once she has obstructed the officers in doing their job, they were entitled to ask her to leave the car, and I’m sure your wonderful boyfriend would have done so, if asked.
Again...she wasn't blocking the road. And she wasn't obstructing the officers from doing their job. Did you watch these videos?
She was the opposite to compliant. But also your description of your “White Privilege” isn’t applicable here. It is an assumption on your part that police are racist, which is unfortunately a problematic which the left wing have created.
You don't understand my point. The notion of "white privilege" here is that the cops won't hurt you. Because you have no experience with that. It's not about what the cops think, but what the citizen thinks, if you can understand what I'm saying.
Secondly, they weren’t protesting, they were obstructing. They were blocking the road. You can see that clearly from the last video I posted.
SUV's were able to pass in front of and behind her car. They were not blocking the road. As to your video, I don't see which one you mean. There are so many.
Thirdly, you say she felt “protected by the law”, and yet she was breaking that same law, by trying to stop ICE from doing their job. I would give you an opposing theory: she felt contempt for both the law and the law enforcement agents, whose job has become more dangerous over the last year, as I’ve shown through state figures, and both these women thought it would be nice and jolly to go wind them up, just as others have done when they surround and trap ICE agents.
They are protected by the law. If they are protesting, that's protected speech. I have also proven she wasn't blocking them, or preventing them from doing their jobs. Contempt for an officer is not illegal. Even mocking him is not illegal, it's just foolish.

The cars that are blocking law enforcement officers, it is reasonable to assume that they are a threat. Your country is violent, and violently opposed to police, when it suits.

The cop - I believe - fired out of fear and frustration.
Again, she was not blocking them. Frustration is not an argument for shooting a civilian. Realistically, neither is fear, given the circumstance. Note the post from @Federberg above, and the restraint officers used on Jan. 6th, when they were literally attacked and embattled by civilians.
Should he done better? Other cops might have, but the fact of the matter is, you cannot decide as a citizen that the law enforcement agents will be able to shrug off every illegal activity with a grin, especially when it comes to hitting them with a deadly weapon.

Which she did.
I do have the right, as a citizen, to expect that he could have done better. He drew his gun before was necessary. Once drawn, he used it. And though he shot once, he also shot two more times, right at her head, at close range. I think I have the right to expect better judgement.
If she’d followed the law, she would still be alive, her child would still have a mother, and that poor man wouldn’t have had to go through that hellish moment.

Bear this in mind: you have made assumptions all along that are based on the suggestion that she wasn’t doing anything wrong, she wasn’t obstructing them. That he wasn’t afraid. That her hitting him with a car wasn’t important, it was only a tap. You have to accept at some level that this framing of it is not accurate, and that she was obstructing them, as well as, as you say, “behaving childishly” and that she was complicit in the outcome. Your side of the aisle have serious issues with law and order - including expecting too much from them in the most drastic and extreme conditions - and that’s a problem for your poorly appreciated law enforcement officers.
I have made way fewer assumptions than you have. I have been dealing with what is there to be seen.
 

Moxie

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Well for the officer, whatever direction she was fleeing from the crime, she hit him.
You are maddening! I keep telling you the same thing, and you won't hear it, but Federberg says it, and suddenly you hear it. You back off when someone who is not me says the same thing.
Hitting him with the car cannot be interpreted favourably on her part. After this, she might have been a threat to anyone on that street. How could her know differently?
Hitting him inadvertently, when she was trying to get away from them is different from hitting him on purpose. For one thing. She was no threat to anyone on the street, until she was killed, and her car careened uncontrolled until it hit a parked car. THAT was dangerous.
She held the agents in contempt.
Not illegal.
 
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Kieran

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You are maddening! I keep telling you the same thing, and you won't hear it, but Federberg says it, and suddenly you hear it. You back off when someone who is not me says the same thing.
Maddening, indeed. “Maddening” Is when someone takes a single word from my post, quotes it, and misrepresents what it means. It means, I was agreeing with brother @Federberg to “agree to disagree” on it. I know you didn’t post that in bad faith.
Hitting him inadvertently, when she was trying to get away from them is different from hitting him on purpose. For one thing. She was no threat to anyone on the street, until she was killed, and her car careened uncontrolled until it hit a parked car. THAT was dangerous.
Actually, hitting him with a car by driving recklessly was a danger to him…
 

Kieran

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Israelis know that cops mean business, as do Black men in this country. As I said, I don't know if it meant anything. At the time, I wondered, though. I knew a guy who got into serious trouble getting out of Israel at the airport, just for having a Palestinian keffiyeh that he bought as a souvenir. US passport, but swarthy looking. They held him for hours. And I've had to deal with Israeli security in the US when I've tried to film at the Israeli embassy. They don't fool around.
For good reason. They’re surrounded by psychopathic Islamist states which have sworn repeatedly to annihilate them. They have enemies in the west too, including America, who support the Islamists.

The Jews - and Israel - are to be constantly admired.
.

Again...she wasn't blocking the road. And she wasn't obstructing the officers from doing their job. Did you watch these videos?

You must not have watched the video I posted above where she’s doing exactly that, parked sideways in the road, waving certain cars past while she’s beeping her horn constantly and dancing in her seat gleefully watching the ICE car coming towards her.
You don't understand my point. The notion of "white privilege" here is that the cops won't hurt you. Because you have no experience with that. It's not about what the cops think, but what the citizen thinks, if you can understand what I'm saying.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt because you’re you, but I absolutely detest terms like white privilege, simple because they’re so loaded politically - and so false, in meaning.
SUV's were able to pass in front of and behind her car. They were not blocking the road. As to your video, I don't see which one you mean. There are so many.

It was the last one I posted. Here, I dug it out.


They are protected by the law. If they are protesting, that's protected speech. I have also proven she wasn't blocking them, or preventing them from doing their jobs. Contempt for an officer is not illegal. Even mocking him is not illegal, it's just foolish.
You keep thinking that these people are “protesters.” That’s charming. Do you think the rioting in Minneapolis is also “protesting?” What about the BLM rioting and looting, the infamously “mostly peaceful” protests.

They were protests too? What about when they kill someone? What about when they’re looting too?

Is there a connection between the shops they destroy and steal from, and the cause they claim to be protesting in favour of?
Frustration is not an argument for shooting a civilian. Realistically, neither is fear, given the circumstance. Note the post from @Federberg above, and the restraint officers used on Jan. 6th, when they were literally attacked and embattled by civilians.
Fear is why she tried to flee, right? Is fear justification for recklessly hitting a law enforcement officer with her car?

She’d could have killed the poor bloke.

As for the rest of it, you must have zoomed out when I posted videos of people trapping ICE agents with their cars. You might have missed the stats on increasing attacks on ICE agents, including vehicular attacks.

He was justified, and it was reasonable, for him to think, given the heightened climate of rebellion against law enforcement officers, that she was a threat to others, including citizens or officers, in her path - when she already showed feck all regard for his safety.
I do have the right, as a citizen, to expect that he could have done better. He drew his gun before was necessary. Once drawn, he used it. And though he shot once, he also shot two more times, right at her head, at close range. I think I have the right to expect better judgement.

I have made way fewer assumptions than you have. I have been dealing with what is there to be seen.
You’re not. You’re defending the left - again - merely. You’re typically bringing nothing that is critical of Good, other than to say she was foolish. You chose a side - your usual side - without hesitation or without sympathy for the threat and abuse these officers face.

You should be looking for better from your fellow citizens, but you’re never going to do that, when they’re leftists.

As for holding agents in contempt, it might not be illegal but it’s terrible ungrateful of your side to persistently denigrate and dehumanise the police. It’s based on nothing but lousy ideas and bad politics.

And naturally, it’s based on hypocrisy. You didn’t denigrate ICE agents at all when they were doing the same job in the same way, for Barack…
 

Moxie

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It was the last one I posted. Here, I dug it out.


You've said this shows she was blocking the road? You said this, above: "Secondly, they weren’t protesting, they were obstructing. They were blocking the road. You can see that clearly from the last video I posted."

No, as I've said before, they were not blocking the road, or preventing anyone from passing on either side, as I said. You can see that in YOUR video. It's a wide road. It would take 3 SUV's to block it.

Anyway, we've all looked at the videos and see what we see. Nothing left now but to see how it plays out, legally. Vance has said that ICE has "absolute immunity," which is not true. It would be dangerous and ludicrous in a lawful society, if that were true. And Vance knows, or should know that. He earned a law degree from Yale.
 
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Moxie

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Lol! Everyone has to advertise their feelings these days! Sigh...

On the same day, I think, that Trump got heckled in Michigan over, presumably, the Epstein case. So he mouthed "f*ck you," and flipped the person the bird. Any sense of decorum left the building some years ago, I guess. For politicians and for those who spectate them.
 
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Fiero425

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On the same day, I think, that Trump got heckled in Michigan over, presumably, the Epstein case. So he mouthed "f*ck you," and flipped the person the bird. Any sense of decorum left the building some years ago, I guess. For politicians and for those who spectate them.

Honey, we're all years behind when it comes to presidential decorum or the lack thereof concerning Trump! From day 1 it was lost! He had his aides go out there to lie to the entire world saying his inaugural was attended by not only more people than Obama's, but the entire history of the ceremony! The latest has him renaming the Kennedy Center "ad hoc" & fk. the Constitution! This is the same man who wanted missiles to be paraded down Penn. Ave. like we were celebrating Bastile Day or a Communist regime (Russian & Chinese)! I still can't believe Congress allowed him to tear down the East Wing while the gov't was shutdown! Again, there needed to be "a Bill" passed! WTF? I'm afraid to see or hear the true latest really as I obstain from watching the NEWS! :angry-face::yawningface::face-with-symbols-on-mouth::fearful-face::astonished-face:
 
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