Too Hard on Mauresmo?

[Riotbeard]

I have been feeling lately that Mauresmo may not get enough credit, and I found Andy's recent comments interesting. She was in a very tough position, taking on Murray post surgery and post Lendl, and people lose sight of the fact that his results have improved over time with Amelie. Has he had Lendl results? No. But he has been as successful as under any other coach.

Andy on Mauresmo and Female Coaches

 

[Kirijax]

I have nothing against female coaches but I thought from the beginning that Mauresmo was a bad choice for Murray. I really don't see how she has helped his game either. Murray has naturally progressed since his surgery and the Bjorkman hire was a way better choice in my opinion. I think Murray lucked out in Mauresmo getting pregnant so that he was free to go find another coach. I know I'm hard on her but I don't like the way she went down on the rest of the staff last year and like I said I really don't see how she has helped Murray at all. Just my two cents.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

It is not so much about the merits and demerits of her coaching. My problem is that once she
came in the team collapsed. This collapse has definitely due to she being a woman (independent
of whether the fault is with her or with other team members refusing to accept a woman as
Andy's coach).

Such a collapse is bad especially considering that she was not even a permanent or full-time coach
(that was the case even before we knew about her pregnancy). It is one thing to collapse the team over a permanent and full-time coach that you trust will do good things for you and it is totally another thing to let a team collapse over a part-time coach.

 

[Riotbeard]

I have nothing against female coaches but I thought from the beginning that Mauresmo was a bad choice for Murray. I really don't see how she has helped his game either. Murray has naturally progressed since his surgery and the Bjorkman hire was a way better choice in my opinion. I think Murray lucked out in Mauresmo getting pregnant so that he was free to go find another coach. I know I'm hard on her but I don't like the way she went down on the rest of the staff last year and like I said I really don't see how she has helped Murray at all. Just my two cents.

Andy was 26 when she came on, what was she supposed to do to his game? Becker has been successful (very successful), but there is no significant difference in how Novak plays. This year Andy has had as good of a year as any non-lendl year.

GSM: In terms of the team, you can make a good case that Vallverdu thought he should have been head coach and would have left no matter who Andy appointed post-lendl. Who else left?

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I have nothing against female coaches but I thought from the beginning that Mauresmo was a bad choice for Murray. I really don't see how she has helped his game either. Murray has naturally progressed since his surgery and the Bjorkman hire was a way better choice in my opinion. I think Murray lucked out in Mauresmo getting pregnant so that he was free to go find another coach. I know I'm hard on her but I don't like the way she went down on the rest of the staff last year and like I said I really don't see how she has helped Murray at all. Just my two cents.

Andy was 26 when she came on, what was she supposed to do to his game? Becker has been successful (very successful), but there is no significant difference in how Novak plays. This year Andy has had as good of a year as any non-lendl year.

GSM: In terms of the team, you can make a good case that Vallverdu thought he should have been head coach and would have left no matter who Andy appointed post-lendl. Who else left?

It is not just Vallverdu who left. I think the Physical Trainer also left. So, you cannot just
chalk it up on Danni's ambition.

 

[Kirijax]

I have nothing against female coaches but I thought from the beginning that Mauresmo was a bad choice for Murray. I really don't see how she has helped his game either. Murray has naturally progressed since his surgery and the Bjorkman hire was a way better choice in my opinion. I think Murray lucked out in Mauresmo getting pregnant so that he was free to go find another coach. I know I'm hard on her but I don't like the way she went down on the rest of the staff last year and like I said I really don't see how she has helped Murray at all. Just my two cents.

Andy was 26 when she came on, what was she supposed to do to his game? Becker has been successful (very successful), but there is no significant difference in how Novak plays. This year Andy has had as good of a year as any non-lendl year.

GSM: In terms of the team, you can make a good case that Vallverdu thought he should have been head coach and would have left no matter who Andy appointed post-lendl. Who else left?

It is not just Vallverdu who left. I think the Physical Trainer also left. So, you cannot just
chalk it up on Danni's ambition.

Exactly. What was his name? Joe Greene? Or something like that. Who is Murray's personal trainer now? Anybody that is well known?

 

[Kieran]

She worked with him during the time he was mainly regaining himself after his op, so her timing was wrong to start with, but even still, I think she was a wrong fit and he'll do a lot better without her...

 

[Riotbeard]

She worked with him during the time he was mainly regaining himself after his op, so her timing was wrong to start with, but even still, I think she was a wrong fit and he'll do a lot better without her...

I mean we will definitely see, but he did make a slam final and win a masters under her this season, so she has been about as successful as every Murray coach except Lendl.

The point isn't she is Murray's best coach, but has she earned the amount of flak she gets?

Fair point about the physical trainer, but unless, he said it was because Mauresmo somewhere, it seems like conjecture to blame her. And I don't think anybody should blame Vallverdu, it was a logical step for him.

 

[Federberg]

I've always suspected a hint of mysoginy against Mauresmo and also the treatment of Murray himself has been rather patronising. He himself is more than happy with the job she is doing, but other people seem to know better!

From my observations she has done a great job. You have to believe that Murray is a better player than perhaps he is to believe otherwise. One thing I've noticed recently, which is different to his time with Lendl is that while his forehand is better it's not being used quite as aggressively as when under Lendl's tutelage. But... he is using aggression on his backhand far more now. I think this makes total sense to me. If Mauresmo is responsible for this I applaud her. In chess you over-protect your strength. Yes his forehand needs to be better but you can't turn a pig into a panther.

Finally I think his 2nd serve is slowly improving, but again.. pig-panther..

 

[tented]

She worked with him during the time he was mainly regaining himself after his op, so her timing was wrong to start with, but even still, I think she was a wrong fit and he'll do a lot better without her...

I mean we will definitely see, but he did make a slam final and win a masters under her this season, so she has been about as successful as every Murray coach except Lendl.

The point isn't she is Murray's best coach, but has she earned the amount of flak she gets?

Fair point about the physical trainer, but unless, he said it was because Mauresmo somewhere, it seems like conjecture to blame her. And I don't think anybody should blame Vallverdu, it was a logical step for him.

It was an odd time for her to come on board, but that was Andy's decision. She can't be held responsible for what happened in the aftermath of the surgery. His results could have been exactly the same had Lendl still been around.

But there's also no denying Andy is currently doing better than last year, with the AO final, the Miami final, the back-to-back clay wins in Munich and Madrid.

I'd hold off on a more definitive assessment until post-Wimbledon. If he loses early there (and by early, I mean prior to the semis), then he needs to take a long look at Amelie (assuming she's even still around).

As for Vallverdu, we'll never know exactly what happened, but if his presence was becoming a problem because of Amelie, I'd say Andy did the right thing to get rid of him, since the results are now better than when he was still there. Andy was almost flat-lining there for a while, but post-Dani there has been a noticeable change for the better.

 

[Denis]

I've always suspected a hint of mysoginy against Mauresmo and also the treatment of Murray himself has been rather patronising. He himself is more than happy with the job she is doing, but other people seem to know better!

From my observations she has done a great job. You have to believe that Murray is a better player than perhaps he is to believe otherwise. One thing I've noticed recently, which is different to his time with Lendl is that while his forehand is better it's not being used quite as aggressively as when under Lendl's tutelage. But... he is using aggression on his backhand far more now. I think this makes total sense to me. If Mauresmo is responsible for this I applaud her. In chess you over-protect your strength. Yes his forehand needs to be better but you can't turn a pig into a panther.

Finally I think his 2nd serve is slowly improving, but again.. pig-panther..

I agree with Riot and Federberg. Murray is the second best player right now, and is winning on clay. Mauresmo deserves some credit for that, as does Bjorkman. Not too much, they remain coaches. But she's been trashtalked unneccesarily. Also, I think it's great Murray hired her.

 

[Federberg]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-3085465/Andy-Murray-calls-women-coaches-British-No1-proudly-declares-m-feminist-ahead-French-Open.html

 

[nehmeth]

Bjorkman was the one who was there in Munich and he was also there in Madrid. The (successful and sustained) offensive play from Murray I would credit to him.

Riotbeard you should have ended your thread title with an exclamation point rather than a question mark. You aren't inviting discussion as much as you are cheerleading. :nono

To me she was a lousy choice, and not because she was a woman or a lesbian. Navratilova would have been a great coach for him and she would have kicked is whiney arse into shape a lot better and a lot quicker - in my opinion

links:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/tennis/32582143

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-3070801/Andy-Murray-joined-new-coach-Jonas-Bjorkman-prepares-Madrid-Open-match-against-Philipp-Kohlschreiber.html

 

[Federberg]

Bjorkman was the one who was there in Munich and he was also there in Madrid. The (successful and sustained) offensive play from Murray I would credit to him.

Riotbeard you should have ended your thread title with an exclamation point rather than a question mark. You aren't inviting discussion as much as you are cheerleading. :nono

To me she was a lousy choice, and not because she was a woman or a lesbian. Navratilova would have been a great coach for him and she would have kicked is whiney arse into shape a lot better and a lot quicker - in my opinion

links:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/tennis/32582143

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/...eiber.html

But what evidence do you have that it was Bjorkman who helped him? We have skype these days :blush: Furthermore, Bjorkman could have been taking instruction from Amelie, or they could have agreed a plan which was being implemented for Andy? I find it very odd that without facts any positives are not due to Amelie, and negatives are immediately attributed to her. Am I missing something here? How do we know?

btw.. your dailymail link isn't working

 

[nehmeth]

^^^
Notice I said - successful and sustained offense - and I meant in Madrid against Kei, and as much as was needed against Nadal.

That did not happen before Bjorkman came on board and unless Murray was skyping with Lendl, I doubt old Amelie was the one initiating it (nice try though). As I stated before in other posts, Bjorkman was a feisty scrappy fighter who carved out some significant wins in his day. He's completely unlike the diffident, reserved player that Mauresmo was.

It's the successful sustained offense that was non-existent after Lendl and before Bjorkman, as well as the fact that Bjorkman's personality would mesh well with that type of game emerging under his oversight. That's why I credit him. And I will end this one the same way I did the previous post you took issue with.... in my opinion.

And the link works now.

 

[Kieran]

I totally agree, Nehmeth. Although I don't think Navratilova would have been better. I don't see her (or McEnroe) being coaches to great players. If people think it's about anybody being a woman, they're wrong. Gloria Connors created Jimbo - with her mother. They could have stepped in after Mauresmo and made Andy better...

 

[Kirijax]

^^^
Notice I said - successful and sustained offense - and I meant in Madrid against Kei, and as much as was needed against Nadal.

That did not happen before Bjorkman came on board and unless Murray was skyping with Lendl, I doubt old Amelie was the one initiating it (nice try though). As I stated before in other posts, Bjorkman was a feisty scrappy fighter who carved out some significant wins in his day. He's completely unlike the diffident, reserved player that Mauresmo was.

It's the successful sustained offense that was non-existent after Lendl and before Bjorkman, as well as the fact that Bjorkman's personality would mesh well with that type of game emerging under his oversight. That's why I credit him. And I will end this one the same way I did the previous post you took issue with.... in my opinion.

And the link works now.

Just curious, but after Murray shook hands with Nadal, he went over to his box and shook hands with Mauresmo. The screen kept showing her on and off during the match. I didn't notice Bjorkman. Was he there? Is was a bit annoying the way they kept showing Mauresmo by the way.

 

[nehmeth]

I totally agree, Nehmeth. Although I don't think Navratilova would have been better. I don't see her (or McEnroe) being coaches to great players.

Very few thought Lendl would be good for Andy either. Navratilova would never have put up with the whiney baby act we've seen since Ivan's departure. Just saying.

Gloria Connors would slam the ball into her young child when he came to the net and tell him to "get used to it". Poor Andy would be reduced to wearing adult diapers if a resurrected Gloria were to coach him. :snicker

 

[Federberg]

^^^
Notice I said - successful and sustained offense - and I meant in Madrid against Kei, and as much as was needed against Nadal.

That did not happen before Bjorkman came on board and unless Murray was skyping with Lendl, I doubt old Amelie was the one initiating it (nice try though). As I stated before in other posts, Bjorkman was a feisty scrappy fighter who carved out some significant wins in his day. He's completely unlike the diffident, reserved player that Mauresmo was.

It's the successful sustained offense that was non-existent after Lendl and before Bjorkman, as well as the fact that Bjorkman's personality would mesh well with that type of game emerging under his oversight. That's why I credit him. And I will end this one the same way I did the previous post you took issue with.... in my opinion.

And the link works now.

I appreciate that it's your opinion. For my part, I'll reserve judgement on who has been responsible for his rebirth until we get more data. It seems to me, that Andy has actually credited Amelie (I may be wrong though), so unless he's lying I'm going to assume that she should get the credit..

 

[brokenshoelace]

Maybe Murray is just playing well? And neither Bjorkman nor Mauresmo had anything revolutionary to tell him before the Nadal match? Just a thought.