The U.S. is Dramatically Overcounting Coronavirus Deaths

calitennis127

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Here is a very good recent piece explaining how and why.....


The US is Dramatically Overcounting Coronavirus Deaths

John R. Lott, Jr.
|
Posted: May 16, 2020 12:01 AM


Editor's Note: Timothy Craig Allen, MD, JD, contributed to this column.

Over 86,500 people have reportedly died in the United States from the Coronavirus, and the fear generated by those deaths is driving the public policy debate. But that number is a dramatic overcount. Our metrics include deaths that have nothing to do with the virus. The problem is even worse as the Centers for Disease Control over counts even some of these cases and the government has created financial incentives for this misreporting. Relying on these flawed numbers is destroying businesses and jobs and costing lives.

“The case definition is very simplistic,” Dr. Ngozi Ezike, director of Illinois Department of Public Health, explains. “It means, at the time of death, it was a COVID positive diagnosis. That means, that if you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means, technically even if you died of clear alternative cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it’s still listed as a COVID death.”

Medical examiners in Michigan use the same definition. In Macomb and Oakland Counties, where most of the deaths occurred, medical examiners classify any deaths as Coronavirus deaths when the postmortem test is positive. Even people who died in suicides and automobile accidents meet that definition.

Still, these broad definitions are not due to a few rogue public health officials. The rules direct them to do this. Unlike other countries, “if someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that as a COVID-19 death,” as Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House coronavirus response coordinator, recently noted.

Classifications go beyond even these broad categories. New York is classifying cases as Coronavirus deaths even when postmortem tests have been negative. Despite negative tests, classifications are based on symptoms, even though the symptoms are often very similar to those of the seasonal flu. The Centers for Disease Control guidance explicitly acknowledges the uncertainty that doctors can face. When Coronavirus cases are “suspected,” they advise doctors that “it is acceptable to report COVID-19 on a death certificate.”

That isn’t just a theoretical issue. On April 21st, when New York City’s death toll rose above 10,000, the New York Times reported that the city included “3,700 additional people who were presumed to have died of the coronavirus but had never tested positive” – a more than 50 percent increase in the number of cases.

But the problem is worse than this broad definition implies. Birx and others believe that the CDC is over counting cases. The Washington Post reports they are concerned that the CDC’s “antiquated” accounting system is double counting cases and inflating mortality and case counts “by as much as 25 percent.”

There are additional reasons for concern. Some doctors feel pressure from hospitals to list deaths as due to the Coronavirus, even when they don’t believe that is the case, “to make it look a little bit worse than it is.” There are financial incentives that might make a difference for hospitals and doctors. The CARES Act adds a 20 percent premium for COVID-19 Medicare patients.

Incentives matter. When the government increased the disability compensation for air traffic controllers, a lot more controllers suddenly started claiming to be disabled. When unemployment insurance payments increase, more people become unemployed and stay unemployed for longer periods. When the government offers flood insurance that charges everyone the same insurance premium regardless of the risk level in their area, more people build homes in frequently flooded areas.

The Washington Post and others claim that we are undercounting the true number of deaths. They reach that conclusion by showing the total number of deaths from all causes is greater than we would normally expect from March through early May, and that this excess is actually due to deaths not being accurately labeled as due to the Coronavirus. But these are simply not normal times. Lots of people with heart and other problems aren’t going to the hospital for fear of the virus. Surgeries for many serious conditions are being put off. The stress of the situation is increasing suicides and other illnesses.

Deaths that have absolutely nothing to do with the Coronavirus count as virus deaths. Add to that claims that the CDC is double counting some of these improperly identified cases and the perverse financial incentives created by the government, and you have a real mess when crucial decisions are being made based in large part on this data.

Erroneous data unduly scare people about the risks of the disease. It keeps the country locked down longer than necessary, which destroys peoples’ lives and livelihoods in many other ways. Exaggerated fears of the virus endanger lives by keeping people from obtaining treatment for other medical problems. It also makes it impossible to accurately compare policies across countries.

It is hard to believe that we are basing such crucial decisions on such flawed data.

Lott is the president of the Crime Prevention Research Center. Allen is a Governor of the College of American Pathologists and Professor and Chair of the Department of Pathology at the University of Mississippi Medical Center. He is also on the Board of Directors and the Academic advisory board for the Crime Prevention Research Center.

 

Moxie

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This week, the Freedom Foundation, a conservative organization which routinely fences with Democratic Gov. Jay Inslee, cast doubt on the official count, asserting it is inflated as much as 13% because it includes every person who had a positive test. At that time, the state had reported 1,000 deaths.

“Obviously, not every person who tests positive for COVID-19 and subsequently passes away dies because of COVID-19,” the group concluded in a report released May 18.

Inslee, at a televised news conference, said he had “no reason to doubt” the tally and fired back at the organization.

“I guess they’re saying that would make it 887 dead and that’s OK and we should not act responsibly if there are only 887 people instead of 1,000 people?” he said. “I’m not sure I understand that logic.”
 

calitennis127

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Great piece here from David Stockman, a former economic adviser to Reagan. He really hits the nail on the head.....



Back in early May, for instance, the NYT breathlessly carried a leaked study from the Trump Administration that projected a massive surge of new infections and a near doubling of daily death rates by early June relative to levels than extant:

"As President Trump presses for states to reopen their economies, his administration is privately projecting a steady rise in the number of coronavirus cases and deaths over the next several weeks. The daily death toll will reach about 3,000 on June 1, according to an internal document obtained by The New York Times, a 70 percent increase from the current number of about 1,750.

The projections, based on government modeling pulled together by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, forecast about 200,000 new cases each day by the end of the month, up from about 25,000 cases a day currently.

The numbers underscore a sobering reality: The United States has been hunkered down for the past seven weeks to try slowing the spread of the virus, but reopening the economy will make matters worse."

Needless to say, that one went down the memory hole ages ago (i.e. around Memorial Day). As of June 10, in fact, actual daily averages for the month to date were:

- 827 deaths per day, representing a 53% decline, not a 70% increase;

- 20,694 new cases per day, representing a 17% decline, not an 8X increase;

In other words, these Washington modelers (this one was prepared by FEMA) couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn with the antiaircraft guns Chairman Kim uses to dispatch his adversaries. So to keep the Covid-Hysteria alive, they send out the hot spot “groomers”.



 

Horsa

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How do you know that the statement in the title of your thread is true? Have you got a job looking through all American death certificates from the Coronavirus era, picking out those with Coronavirus as a primary or secondary cause of death & counting them?
 
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calitennis127

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How do you know that the statement in the title of your thread is true? Have you got a job looking through all American death certificates from the Coronavirus era, picking out those with Coronavirus as a primary or secondary cause of death & counting them?


Perhaps you should take a close look at the reasoning offered by John Lott in the article I posted. What do you have to say to his points?

I have also noted many times that the CDC's guidelines for reporting COVID deaths are very open-ended and allow for the COVID cause to be "presumed" if there is any ambiguity. Combine that with the clear financial incentive of hospitals to claim they have COVID cases (not to mention the media desire to amplify the numbers to hurt Trump) and you have the making of a very fraudulent situation.

There is also a book coming out by an NYC nurse spilling the beans on the malpractice of NYC hospitals.
 

Horsa

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Perhaps you should take a close look at the reasoning offered by John Lott in the article I posted. What do you have to say to his points?

I have also noted many times that the CDC's guidelines for reporting COVID deaths are very open-ended and allow for the COVID cause to be "presumed" if there is any ambiguity. Combine that with the clear financial incentive of hospitals to claim they have COVID cases (not to mention the media desire to amplify the numbers to hurt Trump) and you have the making of a very fraudulent situation.

There is also a book coming out by an NYC nurse spilling the beans on the malpractice of NYC hospitals.
Is it really true though or just his opinion? How does he know? Does he really have access to that information or is he just going on the news like everyone else & selecting & thinking about some parts of this but not others? I was just asking a few questions. I'll look again later & answer your question later.

Maybe so. Where I come from death certificates have all causes of death on them not just 1. Primary causes are at the top & secondary causes at the bottom.

That book sounds interesting but I'm just taking time out from reading about equine history & am busy with other things so don't really have the time. Besides how well does the story of just 1 New York nurse from 1 hospital really represent how things are in hospitals in New York & how well exactly does that represent how well things are in America as a whole?
 
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Horsa

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Perhaps you should take a close look at the reasoning offered by John Lott in the article I posted. What do you have to say to his points?

I have also noted many times that the CDC's guidelines for reporting COVID deaths are very open-ended and allow for the COVID cause to be "presumed" if there is any ambiguity. Combine that with the clear financial incentive of hospitals to claim they have COVID cases (not to mention the media desire to amplify the numbers to hurt Trump) and you have the making of a very fraudulent situation.

There is also a book coming out by an NYC nurse spilling the beans on the malpractice of NYC hospitals.
O.K. I've read the article you posted now though I found it boring & ladybird-bookish to be honest. (I thought that the book on D.I.Y. that I'm reading when I'm not reading about equine history was bad enough. I've been glad to get back to equine history. At least it gives me something proper to chew on for a bit.) I agree that a lot of people with other illnesses which could be exacerbated by Coronavirus could be classed as Coronavirus deaths though it wasn't (just) the Coronavirus that killed them. The idea that they could be bribed to put Coronavirus on the death certificate is scary but plausible. Will we ever know for certain though.
 

calitennis127

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Another thing to look at here Horsa. Whatever actual "Covid" deaths there have been (the number is not 120,000) mostly resulted from this Democratic Party stupidity/malevolence described in this tweet:

 

Horsa

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I don't take tweets as gospel. Anyone can have a twitter account & anyone can say anything. Not all figures put out there are real, official figures & sometimes figures are sometimes doctored to prove people's points & go with their opinions, Cali.
 

calitennis127

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Is it really true though or just his opinion? How does he know? Does he really have access to that information or is he just going on the news like everyone else & selecting & thinking about some parts of this but not others? I was just asking a few questions. I'll look again later & answer your question later.


Hi Horsa, hope you are doing well. We now have confirmation that Lott was right - from the CDC itself. Its latest data show that of the supposed 150,000-plus deaths from "covid" in the United States, only 9,210 were from coronavirus alone. That's not just Lott's opinion; that's the CDC's official data. So yes, this "180,000 deaths" figure you're hearing from the Trump-hating media is utter nonsense. That has been clear to me from the start and now we have official confirmation. If you want to look at a specific locale, look at the second story on Palm Beach County, Florida, which illustrates just how dishonest the death reporting actually has been. It's entirely intended to be a hit job on Trump.



SHOCK REPORT: This Week CDC Quietly Updated COVID-19 Numbers – Only 9,210 Americans Died From COVID-19 Alone – Rest Had Different Other Serious Illnesses
By Joe Hoft
Published August 29, 2020 at 7:45pm



Most Covid-19 Deaths In Palm Beach County Can't Be Attributed To Coronavirus Alone, Medical Records Reveal

 

Horsa

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Hi Horsa, hope you are doing well. We now have confirmation that Lott was right - from the CDC itself. Its latest data show that of the supposed 150,000-plus deaths from "covid" in the United States, only 9,210 were from coronavirus alone. That's not just Lott's opinion; that's the CDC's official data. So yes, this "180,000 deaths" figure you're hearing from the Trump-hating media is utter nonsense. That has been clear to me from the start and now we have official confirmation. If you want to look at a specific locale, look at the second story on Palm Beach County, Florida, which illustrates just how dishonest the death reporting actually has been. It's entirely intended to be a hit job on Trump.



SHOCK REPORT: This Week CDC Quietly Updated COVID-19 Numbers – Only 9,210 Americans Died From COVID-19 Alone – Rest Had Different Other Serious Illnesses
By Joe Hoft
Published August 29, 2020 at 7:45pm



Most Covid-19 Deaths In Palm Beach County Can't Be Attributed To Coronavirus Alone, Medical Records Reveal

Hi Cali!

I am well & happy now I've got a lot of things sorted out & the hippophagy part of my equine history report done. It was distressing but thought-provoking. In fact I'm almost finished. I've re-read "The Mill on the Floss" for book-club which has started back & I'm reading "The Time Machine" for book-club too. It's the 1st sci-fi book I've ever read & I'm really enjoying it. I start back at quilting sessions at work this week & knitting workshops next week. I hope you're well & happy. I'll just take a look at the articles you've shared & let you know what I think later.
 

Horsa

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Hi Horsa, hope you are doing well. We now have confirmation that Lott was right - from the CDC itself. Its latest data show that of the supposed 150,000-plus deaths from "covid" in the United States, only 9,210 were from coronavirus alone. That's not just Lott's opinion; that's the CDC's official data. So yes, this "180,000 deaths" figure you're hearing from the Trump-hating media is utter nonsense. That has been clear to me from the start and now we have official confirmation. If you want to look at a specific locale, look at the second story on Palm Beach County, Florida, which illustrates just how dishonest the death reporting actually has been. It's entirely intended to be a hit job on Trump.



SHOCK REPORT: This Week CDC Quietly Updated COVID-19 Numbers – Only 9,210 Americans Died From COVID-19 Alone – Rest Had Different Other Serious Illnesses
By Joe Hoft
Published August 29, 2020 at 7:45pm



Most Covid-19 Deaths In Palm Beach County Can't Be Attributed To Coronavirus Alone, Medical Records Reveal

Right, I've read the articles you posted & agree that deaths could have been mislabelled as Coronavirus deaths or death certificates could have been given a secondary cause of death as Coronavirus to make the situation look worse than it was in order to justify measures taken to keep the virus under control. We don't know exactly & never will do.
 

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Right, I've read the articles you posted & agree that deaths could have been mislabelled as Coronavirus deaths or death certificates could have been given a secondary cause of death as Coronavirus to make the situation look worse than it was in order to justify measures taken to keep the virus under control. We don't know exactly & never will do.

Agree with you that in some cases the deaths have been overstated.

Unfortunately, it also appears that in many cases deaths have been understated. Certainly, China, Mexico, Turkey, Rusia, and the Sub Suharan REgion of African where people untested are dying of "respiratory illnesses" we will probably also never know the true death count.

This pandemic , has been a LEARNING CURVE, and in hindsight it's so much easier to say that nations and governments should have done Steps A, B and C with Protocols 1, 2 and 3. Unfortunately, these things happen in real time, while armchair QB's can rant and rave how everyone else misread things.
 
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Horsa

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Agree with you that in some cases the deaths have been overstated.

Unfortunately, it also appears that in many cases deaths have been understated. Certainly, China, Mexico, Turkey, Rusia, and the Sub Suharan REgion of African where people untested are dying of "respiratory illnesses" we will probably also never know the true death count.

This pandemic , has been a LEARNING CURVE, and in hindsight it's so much easier to say that nations and governments should have done Steps A, B and C with Protocols 1, 2 and 3. Unfortunately, these things happen in real time, while armchair QB's can rant and rave how everyone else misread things.
I agree.

We got a text message that came across as a threat which I double-checked information on to see if it was really true. The phraseology in the text could have been better. I just thought they're bossing us about & didn't take it seriously at 1st. I had a lot on when lockdown 1st started so just couldn't take everything in as everything was happening at once. I started wearing the masks when I realised the government were giving us our freedom back slowly if the rate went down. I'm sorry for everyone who suffered from this virus & want to keep the spread down so less people suffer but when I 1st started wearing the mask I did it so everyone could have their freedom back sooner. I shouldn't even be wearing 1 as I'm exempt as I have breathing difficulties but if it gets the rate down so people don't suffer & get their freedom back it's worthwhile.
 

calitennis127

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Agree with you that in some cases the deaths have been overstated.

Unfortunately, it also appears that in many cases deaths have been understated. Certainly, China, Mexico, Turkey, Rusia, and the Sub Suharan REgion of African where people untested are dying of "respiratory illnesses" we will probably also never know the true death count.

Sure but you are conveniently assuming that those are all Covid deaths because you want to believe that they are for political reasons. You can't just assume that every death related to respiratory deaths is a Covid death because you want them to be, just as I can't assume that every respiratory death isn't a Covid death. But what is abundantly clear is that your assumption is far more prevalent than mine. The CDC just acknowledged that there have been less than 10,000 Covid-only deaths in the United States and the rest of the supposed 180,000 involved people with a very high average of 2.6 serious illnesses in addition to Covid. That means there is immense gray area at work here, and what is far more likely than an undercount is an overcount.

And why is that? It's because people like Moxie have wanted the death count to be as high as possible to hold it against Trump. That has been the case since Day 1 and it remains so. The main virus at play here is not the so-called "Covid-19" but a mental illness called Trump Derangement Syndrome, otherwise known as the Trumpvirus. That virus has infected millions of Democrats and there is no vaccine for it to date, although I'm sure Dr. Fauci could find one with his utter brilliance as a scientist. Ahem.

The bottom line is that 180,000 Americans have not died of the coronavirus. The real number is not even close to that. The CDC just admitted it.


This pandemic , has been a LEARNING CURVE, and in hindsight it's so much easier to say that nations and governments should have done Steps A, B and C with Protocols 1, 2 and 3. Unfortunately, these things happen in real time, while armchair QB's can rant and rave how everyone else misread things.

I've been ranting from Day 1, Jelena. The only concession I ever made to the lockdown advocates was that in some highly populated areas some lockdowns/restrictions could make sense for a brief period. But the widespread lockdowns across all areas of all countries were utterly insane, stupid, and unscientific.

And if you want something to pull at your heart strings, how about this story? It will bring home just how stupid the lockdown policy has been. It is totally ridiculous and unscientific:

Almost 1.2 million babies could die during the pandemic — but not from the coronavirus
Published: July 2, 2020 at 3:44 p.m. ET

 

calitennis127

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Horsa you should find this interesting. More fresh info that the U.S. Covid death total is a complete scam.....it is clear that the CDC is populated by government bureaucrats who are diehard Democrats and that they are fudging the numbers. The 180,000 number is a total lie:



CDC employees made more than 8,000 political contributions since 2015. Only 5 went to Republican causes
By
Curate RegWatch
-
July 17, 2020




MEDICAL FRAUD: CDC Includes 5,692 Intentional Injuries and Poisonings in their Total US Coronavirus Death Count
By Jim Hoft
Published September 11, 2020 at 7:00am

 

calitennis127

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This 200,000 figure is probably the most patently fraudulent statistic I have ever seen. The overt lying for political ends could not be more blatant. They are throwing in any and all deaths under the sun into the “Covid” category. And the Democrats in the CDC are engineering the process:


 

Horsa

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Horsa you should find this interesting. More fresh info that the U.S. Covid death total is a complete scam.....it is clear that the CDC is populated by government bureaucrats who are diehard Democrats and that they are fudging the numbers. The 180,000 number is a total lie:



CDC employees made more than 8,000 political contributions since 2015. Only 5 went to Republican causes
By
Curate RegWatch
-
July 17, 2020




MEDICAL FRAUD: CDC Includes 5,692 Intentional Injuries and Poisonings in their Total US Coronavirus Death Count
By Jim Hoft
Published September 11, 2020 at 7:00am

I do find this interesting. Thank you very much for sharing.

I'm very sorry for the delayed response but I'd just finished part of a book on equine history which covered bull-fighting & war-horses & I'd found it distressing. I also finished the book & am putting the finishing touches on the 1st draft of my equine history report. Then I'll have to put it in chronological order before re-writing it. I didn't want to read anything else that was depressing until I'd had a break.
 

calitennis127

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I do find this interesting. Thank you very much for sharing.

I'm very sorry for the delayed response but I'd just finished part of a book on equine history which covered bull-fighting & war-horses & I'd found it distressing. I also finished the book & am putting the finishing touches on the 1st draft of my equine history report. Then I'll have to put it in chronological order before re-writing it. I didn't want to read anything else that was depressing until I'd had a break.


Just out of curiosity, did you ever take an interest in the old American West (particularly the Southwest) and the tradition of horseback-riding out there? I've never been into it myself but it seems like that would be up your alley.