The Pleasures of Being a Luddite

[Moxie]

On another thread, @El Dude talked about his obsession with fountain pens. I was trying not to distract the thread, but then @Kieran piped in, too, so I figured we need an outlet to nerd out over the joys of fountain pens, interesting papers, books that you actually hold in your hand and keep on your bookshelves, vinyl records, the joys of cursive writing, of sending actual letters, and maybe the value of stepping away from the computer. Etcetera. The irony is that this is a web forum, but feel free to complain about the internet. Curious to hear everyone's Luddite pleasures.

 

[Moxie]

Let's start with fountain pens. I was itching to talk about them when El Dude first brought them up. I don't have a great collection, and even use cheap ones, too, but they are SO pleasurable. You get ink on your finger. You get blobs. (IMO, all of these are plusses.) But the nibs have such a lovely edge. You write, and you carve. And, if you add a paper with a certain "tooth" to it, it really is like art.

Question to @El Dude: I've always been told that you shouldn't let anyone write with your fountain pen. Like a lovely Monteblanc, because the nib starts to conform to your hand. But you have vintage pens. What thoughts?

I also wanted to say to @Kieran: OMG, my handwriting has gone to hell, too, since the age of the computer. Is it lack of practice? I do write longhand all the time. I think part of it is not writing at a desk as much, anymore. I scribble on my lap...at the computer, for work. Another part I think is lack of patience. My handwriting is the same, but bigger and sloppier. Maybe if I'd just take a breath, and write more slowly, my handwriting would be smaller and better...and perhaps my thoughts more well-formed. Hmm...

 

[El Dude]

Nice, Moxie. Yeah, I love my fountain pens...rather obsessive, really. And inks, too. I have a rather embarrassingly almost 200 bottles, and about two dozen pens. I've gotten more and more into vintage stuff, with my favorite brand and pen being the Pelikan 400...I have four of them, of different varieties. Most have a lovely, soft and flexible nib that writes like a dream.

I recently picked up a vintage pen at a consignment shop, a Wahl Oxford, that has the most delightfully (but finicky) "superflex" nib. It isn't quite a "wet noodle," which are like paint brushes, but it is very flexible.

And yes, I agree that the "flaws" are fun features...I almost always have ink on my fingers (I have some right now).

I also just love playing with the ink, trying out and comparing colors. It is rather therapeutic.

But I will say this: I don't write cursive. I'm a lefty, so decades ago--middle or early high school--I abandoned cursive, and focused on print under-writing, which allows me to write without smearing the ink. Recently I tried a bit of cursive but it was rather horrible.

And to add to the mix...I also love high quality and vintage mechanical pencils, like Yard o Led, Graf Von Faber Castell, Caran d'Ache, etc. The jewel of my collection is a ridiculously expensive Graf Von Faber Castell Classic in sterling silver. Just a lovely, magical implement.

I enjoy stationery of all kinds...wooden pencils, too, and fancy brass sharpeners and various other implements.

 

[Moxie]

Excellent start to this nerd-fest, Dude! I admire your collection, and do recognize a lot of names. I'm lucky in Manhattan to still have a few great stationers, which stock great pens, pencils and papers. And even though a lot of our art stores have closed, there are still great ones within walking distance of my place.

If you don't mind my saying, you mentioned "doodling" in a recent PM we had. I'm also a great doodler, if not a great sketch artist anymore. (Lack of practice.) And this is where great pens and pencils come in. I doodle my way through zoom meetings and work conversations, in the midst of note-taking, and I believe it helps me think. Bullet points become flowers, and arrows to big issues can be quite elaborate. This is where you want a nice, soft-leaded drawing pencil, or just a good sturdy felt-tip. But it's not just fun, or distracting. When I put my pen or pencil to it, as I'm thinking about it, I ruminate over it, and remember it. I really do believe that my young assistants who only take notes on their phones or computers don't commit these things to memory as much. I have heard that the physical act of writing something aids in remembering it.

I won't hold it against you that you don't write in cursive, but I mentioned it because it seems to have become a thing of the past. I suppose it goes the way of sending people actual letters. (I'll come back to that in another post.) But lefties have to accommodate, especially if you're going to write with a fountain pen.

I found myself in a kind of heaven when I went to Japan, and went to a stationer. They have the most beautiful papers there. Little hand-bound rice paper notebooks. And brushes for calligraphy, with beautiful ink pots. I have a gigantic calligraphy pen that I got in China, with a lovely horn handle. I've rarely known what to do with it, but it's such a beautiful object.

These illustrations are for fun. Ralph Steadman embraced the ink blob like no one. And Georgia O'Keeffe's studies of line were some of the most beautiful examples I can think of hand, line...and patience. I think she spent a year just working on drawing lines. The most Luddite thing ever.

 

[Kieran]

Let's start with fountain pens. I was itching to talk about them when El Dude first brought them up. I don't have a great collection, and even use cheap ones, too, but they are SO pleasurable. You get ink on your finger. You get blobs. (IMO, all of these are plusses.) But the nibs have such a lovely edge. You write, and you carve. And, if you add a paper with a certain "tooth" to it, it really is like art.

Question to @El Dude: I've always been told that you shouldn't let anyone write with your fountain pen. Like a lovely Monteblanc, because the nib starts to conform to your hand. But you have vintage pens. What thoughts?

I also wanted to say to @Kieran: OMG, my handwriting has gone to hell, too, since the age of the computer. Is it lack of practice? I do write longhand all the time. I think part of it is not writing at a desk as much, anymore. I scribble on my lap...at the computer, for work. Another part I think is lack of patience. My handwriting is the same, but bigger and sloppier. Maybe if I'd just take a breath, and write more slowly, my handwriting would be smaller and better...and perhaps my thoughts more well-formed. Hmm...

That’s me. Impatience and irritation. I got too used to being able to change what I wrote. I’m thinking of starting handwriting classes for young doctors, I think their handwriting is like calligraphy compared to mine, they need to mess it up more…

 

[britbox]

Thanks for quite an intriguing "off the wall" thread. I've always loved fountain pens - the only downside being "leakage". My mother was quite into what she called "calligraphy". It seems to be a lost/dying art but a hand-written letter has ten times (at least) the impact of an e-mail (in my opinion). It's personal and it's distinctive.

We actually got taught in school to write in what we called "double-writing", some teachers would be a stickler for it being done correctly. Others call it "joined up" or "cursive".

Fascinating to read other accounts - glad old handwriting is still alive! I'm biro-phobic - if it's not a thing, then I guess it will be some form of hate-ink-speech in times to come.

 

[Horsa]

Thanks for quite an intriguing "off the wall" thread. I've always loved fountain pens - the only downside being "leakage". My mother was quite into what she called "calligraphy". It seems to be a lost/dying art but a hand-written letter has ten times (at least) the impact of an e-mail (in my opinion). It's personal and it's distinctive.

We actually got taught in school to write in what we called "double-writing", some teachers would be a stickler for it being done correctly. Others call it "joined up" or "cursive".

Fascinating to read other accounts - glad old handwriting is still alive! I'm biro-phobic - if it's not a thing, then I guess it will be some form of hate-ink-speech in times to come.

It is indeed a fascinating thread which could include many things. (As a heritage preservationist, I've got quite a few additions to make later but I haven't got time to say what I really want to say starting with writing as it's the topic that has been started on but also moving onto typing the old way where deletion wasn't possible & you changed your paper & started again if you made a mistake & you didn't always have 1 on your keyboard so used I as if you were using Roman numerals, old books & ways of doing things, etc.

 

[Moxie]

It is indeed a fascinating thread which could include many things. (As a heritage preservationist, I've got quite a few additions to make later but I haven't got time to say what I really want to say starting with writing as it's the topic that has been started on but also moving onto typing the old way where deletion wasn't possible & you changed your paper & started again if you made a mistake & you didn't always have 1 on your keyboard so used I as if you were using Roman numerals, old books & ways of doing things, etc.

I knew this would be up your street, Horsa! Ah, Roman numerals, you even managed to sneak in there. Good one.

 

[El Dude]

Excellent start to this nerd-fest, Dude! I admire your collection, and do recognize a lot of names. I'm lucky in Manhattan to still have a few great stationers, which stock great pens, pencils and papers. And even though a lot of our art stores have closed, there are still great ones within walking distance of my place.

If you don't mind my saying, you mentioned "doodling" in a recent PM we had. I'm also a great doodler, if not a great sketch artist anymore. (Lack of practice.) And this is where great pens and pencils come in. I doodle my way through zoom meetings and work conversations, in the midst of note-taking, and I believe it helps me think. Bullet points become flowers, and arrows to big issues can be quite elaborate. This is where you want a nice, soft-leaded drawing pencil, or just a good sturdy felt-tip. But it's not just fun, or distracting. When I put my pen or pencil to it, as I'm thinking about it, I ruminate over it, and remember it. I really do believe that my young assistants who only take notes on their phones or computers don't commit these things to memory as much. I have heard that the physical act of writing something aids in remembering it.

I won't hold it against you that you don't write in cursive, but I mentioned it because it seems to have become a thing of the past. I suppose it goes the way of sending people actual letters. (I'll come back to that in another post.) But lefties have to accommodate, especially if you're going to write with a fountain pen.

I found myself in a kind of heaven when I went to Japan, and went to a stationer. They have the most beautiful papers there. Little hand-bound rice paper notebooks. And brushes for calligraphy, with beautiful ink pots. I have a gigantic calligraphy pen that I got in China, with a lovely horn handle. I've rarely known what to do with it, but it's such a beautiful object.

These illustrations are for fun. Ralph Steadman embraced the ink blob like no one. And Georgia O'Keeffe's studies of line were some of the most beautiful examples I can think of hand, line...and patience. I think she spent a year just working on drawing lines. The most Luddite thing ever.

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Moxie, if you're ever in Brooklyn, there's a great shop I order from a lot--Yoseka Stationery--that has a lot of great Asian stuff. Japan in particular has great pens and inks, but also Korea, Taiwan, and the Philippines. If I ever get a chance to go to Japan, I'll have to budget a thousand bucks or more just on stationery stuff.

And this goes to @britbox as well: Fountain pens--and boutique stationery in general--is actually a thriving hobby - I think it took off as a popular (relatively speaking) retro thing about 10-15 years ago, after several decades of dwindling down. This is actually somewhat of a trend, for instance vinyl and even something like "old-fashioned" Dungeons and Dragons, as I think people are craving more organic experiences as everything becomes more and more digitized.

And yes, doodling is great, Moxie! Nice pictures...I remember Frank Steadman, and of course Georgia O'Keefe...that has a somewhat Zen vibe. This is a bit different, but there's a British guy Nick Stewart who does lovely ink studies, sort of playing with the idea of what you can do with fountain pen inks other than write: https://nickstewart.ink/

 

[Horsa]

I knew this would be up your street, Horsa! Ah, Roman numerals, you even managed to sneak in there. Good one.

It is indeed, Moxie. Definitely & the method of typing I was referring to was indeed the typewriter. I learnt to type on a typewriter. (Moving on from Roman numerals there will be more on maths later as I have to calculate bills 1 of the old ways when I'm serving in the shop at work & I have to cash up using the pen & paper method. I really prefer calculating bills using either the pen & paper method or my head to using a calculator or having a till to do it for me. As I've been sent on both manual & computerised book-keeping & accounts courses from work, I can also say I prefer doing book-keeping & accounts the old way though I got a higher mark for computerised accounts than manual book-keeping but more about that later. *I definitely wouldn't like to calculate bills & fill in financial paperwork using Roman numerals though. I'm going to carry on with the reading, writing & typing theme 1st before going onto other old ways etc.)

 

[Moxie]

Moxie, if you're ever in Brooklyn, there's a great shop I order from a lot--Yoseka Stationery--that has a lot of great Asian stuff. Japan in particular has great pens and inks, but also Korea, Taiwan, and the Philippines. If I ever get a chance to go to Japan, I'll have to budget a thousand bucks or more just on stationery stuff.

And this goes to @britbox as well: Fountain pens--and boutique stationery in general--is actually a thriving hobby - I think it took off as a popular (relatively speaking) retro thing about 10-15 years ago, after several decades of dwindling down. This is actually somewhat of a trend, for instance vinyl and even something like "old-fashioned" Dungeons and Dragons, as I think people are craving more organic experiences as everything becomes more and more digitized.

And yes, doodling is great, Moxie! Nice pictures...I remember Frank Steadman, and of course Georgia O'Keefe...that has a somewhat Zen vibe. This is a bit different, but there's a British guy Nick Stewart who does lovely ink studies, sort of playing with the idea of what you can do with fountain pen inks other than write: https://nickstewart.ink/

Excellent! Of course I go to Brooklyn...everyone does now...but Yoseka is near one of my haircutters, so I will go, and hopefully forget I have a credit card! Also, thanks for the Nick Stewart link. I can do a deep dive in there.

 

[Moxie]

It is indeed, Moxie. Definitely & the method of typing I was referring to was indeed the typewriter. I learnt to type on a typewriter. (Moving on from Roman numerals there will be more on maths later as I have to calculate bills 1 of the old ways when I'm serving in the shop at work & I have to cash up using the pen & paper method. I really prefer calculating bills using either the pen & paper method or my head to using a calculator or having a till to do it for me. As I've been sent on both manual & computerised book-keeping & accounts courses from work, I can also say I prefer doing book-keeping & accounts the old way though I got a higher mark for computerised accounts than manual book-keeping but more about that later. *I definitely wouldn't like to calculate bills & fill in financial paperwork using Roman numerals though. I'm going to carry on with the reading, writing & typing theme 1st before going onto other old ways etc.)

I also learned to type on a typewriter, though I fought my mother bitterly over it. ("I'm not going to be a secretary!") Little did I know the computer was about to turn up, and basically now we're all our own secretaries. It's very useful to be a touch-typist, and, yes, I did tell my mother how grateful I am for those typing classes. (Once again, mother knows best!) And also, like you, I still like to do a lot of quick sums on paper.

 

[Horsa]

I also learned to type on a typewriter, though I fought my mother bitterly over it. ("I'm not going to be a secretary!") Little did I know the computer was about to turn up, and basically now we're all our own secretaries. It's very useful to be a touch-typist, and, yes, I did tell my mother how grateful I am for those typing classes. (Once again, mother knows best!) And also, like you, I still like to do a lot of quick sums on paper.

I loved learning to type because my hand-writing was untidy & it meant I could put my thoughts on paper without people telling me I needed to practise my hand-writing. (Luckily for me, when I was at school I found out that I remembered information better if I just read it over & over so only had to do written exercises & copy off the board in class & sample tests & read & re-read everything for revision for exams.) Touch-typing makes typing much quicker. (I learnt to type through reading old books & following instructions. The books I learnt typing from were old, leather, well-bound books with gilded drop-letter titles on the front page & spine, marbled fly-leaves & beautiful, colourful frontispieces inside. I just loved the smell of the books like I do the smell of new books. Oops! I'd better behave so I'll have enough to say when I write my piece unless I write my piece using very descriptive language that makes you yearn for the old books, etc.)

When I cash up the old way the working out sometimes fills the entire page. Lol.

 

[Moxie]

Thanks for quite an intriguing "off the wall" thread. I've always loved fountain pens - the only downside being "leakage". My mother was quite into what she called "calligraphy". It seems to be a lost/dying art but a hand-written letter has ten times (at least) the impact of an e-mail (in my opinion). It's personal and it's distinctive.

We actually got taught in school to write in what we called "double-writing", some teachers would be a stickler for it being done correctly. Others call it "joined up" or "cursive".

Fascinating to read other accounts - glad old handwriting is still alive! I'm biro-phobic - if it's not a thing, then I guess it will be some form of hate-ink-speech in times to come.

I'm curious about the love for fountain pens, but you saying you're "biro-phobic." I get not wanting ink all over your hands, (even though I don't mind it,) but do you generally not use a pen? I know you're a computer-wiz, and a lot of people make all notes on the computer or their phones.

As to letter-writing, I did want to get to that. Totally agree that a handwritten letter or note means a lot more than an email. Of course, we all email and text friends and loved ones all the time. But there are times when only a personal, handwritten note will do. Condolence cards are a big must, for me. And, while we do send birthday greetings and such via email and text, it's always nice to get a real card in the mail. I have some oldsters that I write to, because their generation does so appreciate the snail mail. And what has become of love letters? I like to think that everyone has a box somewhere they plan to burn before they die. (My grandmother did hers.) Oh, or at the right time after a break-up. LOL. I just hope they haven't mostly been reduced to texts like, "U up?"

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Okay being a lefty and writing with a ink pen is really not meant for writing in a world of right handers
Being brought up in a strict catholic school with nuns, marks were taken off my compositions for ink marks and smudges
My parents gave me a Mont Blanc pen when I graduated from school and I have it to this very day
My Nonna had the most beautiful hand writing, even at age 86 and we all used to get the most wonderful hand written letters from her, which I still have to this very day, I really looked forward to receiving them.
A pity in this day and age people do not write letters anymore, I know everyone is busy, still I love receiving them
I have friends that dont sent Christmas cards anymore, they just email.Pity!

 

[Moxie]

I loved learning to type because my hand-writing was untidy & it meant I could put my thoughts on paper without people telling me I needed to practise my hand-writing. (Luckily for me, when I was at school I found out that I remembered information better if I just read it over & over so only had to do written exercises & copy off the board in class & sample tests & read & re-read everything for revision for exams.) Touch-typing makes typing much quicker. (I learnt to type through reading old books & following instructions. The books I learnt typing from were old, leather, well-bound books with gilded drop-letter titles on the front page & spine, marbled fly-leaves & beautiful, colourful frontispieces inside. I just loved the smell of the books like I do the smell of new books. Oops! I'd better behave so I'll have enough to say when I write my piece unless I write my piece using very descriptive language that makes you yearn for the old books, etc.)

When I cash up the old way the working out sometimes fills the entire page. Lol.

What a beautiful description of those old typing books! Ah, and I know what you mean about the smell of books, especially old ones, (if they're not too musty.) There is a great used book store near me, Strand Books, which is a New York institution. They had wood floors and 4 stories, and no air-conditioning, and the smell of the place was glorious. It smelled like my elementary school library, or basically every library. They renovated a couple of years ago, put in A/C, and the place has never smelled the same. I know the people who work there were really glad to get the air-conditioning, but a little something special got lost, IMO.

Speaking of smells, and memories of smells: in sad news, the barn that belonged to our grandparents, across the road from our country house now, burned to the ground a couple of weeks ago. It was over 200 years old, and had once been a blacksmith's shop. And our grandfather's workshop. Even when the neighbors let us visit, we all (siblings, cousins, my dad, my aunt,) commented on how it still smelled the same. Of oil and kreosote and hay and old wood...and basically, our grandfather. It looks like they'll rebuild. It's a locally historic barn and there is lots of information to go from. But we all agreed...it will never smell the same again.

 

[britbox]

I'm curious about the love for fountain pens, but you saying you're "biro-phobic." I get not wanting ink all over your hands, (even though I don't mind it,) but do you generally not use a pen? I know you're a computer-wiz, and a lot of people make all notes on the computer or their phones.

As to letter-writing, I did want to get to that. Totally agree that a handwritten letter or note means a lot more than an email. Of course, we all email and text friends and loved ones all the time. But there are times when only a personal, handwritten note will do. Condolence cards are a big must, for me. And, while we do send birthday greetings and such via email and text, it's always nice to get a real card in the mail. I have some oldsters that I write to, because their generation does so appreciate the snail mail. And what has become of love letters? I like to think that everyone has a box somewhere they plan to burn before they die. (My grandmother did hers.) Oh, or at the right time after a break-up. LOL. I just hope they haven't mostly been reduced to texts like, "U up?"

With biro-phobia, I mean those horrible plastic Bic Pens (or similar) - writing with one has the feeling of running nails down a blackboard. Minimum standard is at least a rollerball or gel pen for everyday use.

Yes, I still use a pen and have notebooks, although admittedly use them far less in the digital age. I don't own a fountain pen right now but used to use Parkers and Watermans back in the day. I wasn't a connoisseur by any stretch of the imagination - most were cartridge inks, although I had a couple with refillable pouches.

Digital is double-edged sword, as I think we're about to witness sharply in real time with the advent of the AI age. I'm glad to see the analogue age thriving in quirky niche groups. I have a strange fetish for watching real craftsmen (and that includes women FYI) practicing their craft - from street artists to old school clock and watch repair experts.

 

[Moxie]

With biro-phobia, I mean those horrible plastic Bic Pens (or similar) - writing with one has the feeling of running nails down a blackboard. Minimum standard is at least a rollerball or gel pen for everyday use.

Yes, I still use a pen and have notebooks, although admittedly use them far less in the digital age. I don't own a fountain pen right now but used to use Parkers and Watermans back in the day. I wasn't a connoisseur by any stretch of the imagination - most were cartridge inks, although I had a couple with refillable pouches.

OK, I got you know. I'm with you, though I will write with any implement in a pinch. I carry cheap pens on a run, in case I need to note something, but I tend to lose them, so am not precious about that. But they are so unpleasant. I have types of pens and pencils I'll use, and others that just don't make the cut.

Question for the group: Who is fine point/medium point/bold?

I doubt anyone would be shocked that I go for the bold, or medium, both in pens and pencils. I need the instrument to grip the page, or it feels unsatisfying.

I have a brother who keeps a small notebook with him at all times. He makes notes in his tiny, crabby hand. He has chronicled our family, including many facts from our deadly departed. Most of us rely on memory...he's got it written down, and I am grateful for that. Every Christmas I buy him his favorite ones at Muji for his stocking. He's a scientist and detail-oriented person. My other friend who writes small and favors a fine-point pen is a Renaissance scholar. One who pours over old manuscripts. Totally anecdotal observation, but maybe the detail-oriented write small, and favor the fine point?

Digital is double-edged sword, as I think we're about to witness sharply in real time with the advent of the AI age. I'm glad to see the analogue age thriving in quirky niche groups. I have a strange fetish for watching real craftsmen (and that includes women FYI) practicing their craft - from street artists to old school clock and watch repair experts.

Totally agreed that digital is a double-edged sword. Not sure what to say about AI, right now. I do think a certain inclination back to the analog and to craft is inevitable. We see it. I work in a business that has embraced the digital, enormously, but is still, at it's core, craft. Even if you look at a film like Avatar (1&2), there is a lot of homemade that goes into it. Which brings to me to how much I miss real film, but I will save it.

As to appreciating craftspeople, I have a lovely watch repairman near me, though sadly I lost my best cobbler. And we could talk about amazing quilt makers, but I'm also amazed by my carpenters and electricians. There is stuff that Alexa can't do. In another life, I'd have been a carpenter.

 

[britbox]

OK, I got you know. I'm with you, though I will write with any implement in a pinch. I carry cheap pens on a run, in case I need to note something, but I tend to lose them, so am not precious about that. But they are so unpleasant. I have types of pens and pencils I'll use, and others that just don't make the cut.

Question for the group: Who is fine point/medium point/bold?

I doubt anyone would be shocked that I go for the bold, or medium, both in pens and pencils. I need the instrument to grip the page, or it feels unsatisfying.

I have a brother who keeps a small notebook with him at all times. He makes notes in his tiny, crabby hand. He has chronicled our family, including many facts from our deadly departed. Most of us rely on memory...he's got it written down, and I am grateful for that. Every Christmas I buy him his favorite ones at Muji for his stocking. He's a scientist and detail-oriented person. My other friend who writes small and favors a fine-point pen is a Renaissance scholar. One who pours over old manuscripts. Totally anecdotal observation, but maybe the detail-oriented write small, and favor the fine point?

Totally agreed that digital is a double-edged sword. Not sure what to say about AI, right now. I do think a certain inclination back to the analog and to craft is inevitable. We see it. I work in a business that has embraced the digital, enormously, but is still, at it's core, craft. Even if you look at a film like Avatar (1&2), there is a lot of homemade that goes into it. Which brings to me to how much I miss real film, but I will save it.

As to appreciating craftspeople, I have a lovely watch repairman near me, though sadly I lost my best cobbler. And we could talk about amazing quilt makers, but I'm also amazed by my carpenters and electricians. There is stuff that Alexa can't do. In another life, I'd have been a carpenter.

Definitely in the fine to medium point camp! I like precision.

I'd suggest playing around with some of the AI tools to get a feel for how it's going to be a major disruptor.

 

[El Dude]

Excellent! Of course I go to Brooklyn...everyone does now...but Yoseka is near one of my haircutters, so I will go, and hopefully forget I have a credit card! Also, thanks for the Nick Stewart link. I can do a deep dive in there.

I'm jealous...I'll definitely go at some point, when I'm down there next (maybe during the summer). Any other good pen/stationery shops I should be aware of?

Yoseka has a pen-testing station, I believe. You can see some pictures of the shop here - just a lovely aesthetic, sort of a mix of Asian aesthetics and hipster vibe: https://www.penaddict.com/blog/2021/9/17/yoseka-stationery-a-quick-visit?rq=yoseka