The demeaning and inaccurate myth of what Djokovic was in 2011....

[nehmeth]

But anyways, this talk is kind of my point regarding Rafa fans.

Federer fans too. You ever meet a chap called DoogansQuest?

No never heard of him :snigger

:laydownlaughing

 

[brokenshoelace]

Oh, look, another original post by Cali. Instead of actually telling us the difference between 2011 Djokovic and 2013 Djokovic (aside from referencing defense), he resorts to something as vague as "exposed Nadal's limitations." Well okay, but you do know he played other players than Nadal in 2011, and you do know he's playing other players now? So, for the sake of actual fruitful conversation, let's actually focus on the differences in Djokovic's game in general in 2011 compared to 2013, because THAT would actually be an interesting conversation.

PS: At least Nadal took sets out of him at Wimbledon and the US Open. If you want pitiful, check Novak's performance at the Wimbledon final this year.

 

[Kieran]

Imagine the amount of new threads we'll get if Rafa wins the US Open...

 

[Front242]

PS: At least Nadal took sets out of him at Wimbledon and the US Open. If you want pitiful, check Novak's performance at the Wimbledon final this year.

Sure was a pitiful performance alright.

 

[brokenshoelace]

On another thread in the past week, one frequent poster wrote the following and was not called on it:

"In 2011 there was basically only one Nole against Rafa. It was the bug-eyed, shirt-ripping, egg-fueled maniac who swung for the fences and painted the lines."

It is amazing that hardly anyone challenged this statement.

This is predominantly a Fedal board (most liking one or the other) and at best Djokovic tolerant.

Regarding Kieran's post, I don't think he was dissing Novak. As he's stated 2011 was his best year, and until he repeats it, the exception rather than the rule. As a fan, I agree with him.

I think where Djokovic has succeeded the most in the past two years is increasing his level on average. Yes, 2011 was incredible (and I have more thoughts on that, which I'll share at a later post when I have more time) and his level was among the highest I've ever seen. Compared to that, I can see why some would view 2012 and 2013 as disappointing (though I think DarthFed goes WAY overboard in calling 2013 a "bad" year. In no way is this remotely close to being a bad year for Novak). However, we have to keep in mind that while Novak may not have built on 2011 the way some would have hoped, his level, on average, is higher than any year before that. And THAT is a difficult thing to achieve. It's not like he caught fire for one year then resorted back to being his 2009-2010 self. He still is very much the best player in the world, and has been for over two years now, even if he's quite not at his 2011 level. That is not easy.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Keep in mind, when Novak turned into the world beater he was in 2011, most acknowledged that it was largely small adjustments making a huge difference. Tennis is a game of inches, and him defending a touch better, counterpunching even more lethally on a consistent basis, playing with controlled aggression without losing patience, getting his forehand to miss less, and getting back his serve meant going half a season undefeated. In each of those areas, the actual difference in what he's doing was not that big compared to before. But when you combine them all together, they make a huge difference. Now, in the subsequent years, a slight drop off in each (but not big enough to where he's back to his 2009 self) means he's still an amazing player, but all of a sudden, he's beatable. That's tennis.

PS: It's not a Cali thread without a hyperbolic, over the top title for shock value.

 

[DarthFed]

We'll see how he does at the US Open BS, I think that determines whether or not he had a good year or a bad one. Novak is mostly mowing through the "others" but when he reaches the big boys he has not done well the past couple years. Since AO 2012 he is 2-5 in slams vs. them and last week's semi was a huge match with year end #1 implications. He is showing major weakness in the tight moments this year especially.

 

[zalvar]

We'll see how he does at the US Open BS, I think that determines whether or not he had a good year or a bad one. Novak is mostly mowing through the "others" but when he reaches the big boys he has not done well the past couple years. Since AO 2012 he is 2-5 in slams vs. them and last week's semi was a huge match with year end #1 implications. He is showing major weakness in the tight moments this year especially.

Well then what's a bad year? It wasn't perfect like 2011 but the guy has reached SF and F on most. It's not a bad year with a slam. And can't it be a combination of his "choking" and others just playing better as well? I don't buy that if, hypothetically, Novak is clear headed that he would automatically beat Rafa or Andy. The guy doesn't walk on water. Djokovic is having a good year. Results being split between these 3 is amazing and exciting.

 

[brokenshoelace]

We'll see how he does at the US Open BS, I think that determines whether or not he had a good year or a bad one. Novak is mostly mowing through the "others" but when he reaches the big boys he has not done well the past couple years. Since AO 2012 he is 2-5 in slams vs. them and last week's semi was a huge match with year end #1 implications. He is showing major weakness in the tight moments this year especially.

I don't disagree, but I don't think that warrants a "bad" label when you've already won a slam and a Masters 1000 event (and reached a slam final). I would rate his year SO FAR as "good, but slightly below expectations."

 

[DarthFed]

It is all about expectations. 2008 was a bad year for Fed no doubt about that, as was 2009 for Rafa (though injury was obviously a major factor). Of course results wise any year with a slam is an awesome year if you aren't a top player but I doubt Nole is terribly happy with how things have turned out and he might not even finish the year #1...

 

[britbox]

To be honest Darth, expectations have got ridiculous if any year a player wins a major is regarded as subpar.

 

[Moxie]

On another thread in the past week, one frequent poster wrote the following and was not called on it:

"In 2011 there was basically only one Nole against Rafa. It was the bug-eyed, shirt-ripping, egg-fueled maniac who swung for the fences and painted the lines."

It is amazing that hardly anyone challenged this absurd statement.

Since it was on a recent thread, I don't see why you don't just challenge it there, instead of creating a new thread just to debate the point, which would be customary. But it seems folks have embraced the tussle. However, complaining about someone "demeaning" a player, in your opinion, is a bit rich from you, since your raison d'être on these forums seems to have reduced itself to running down the idea of Nadal as any kind of great tennis player.

Eh, I was complimenting him!

But I was also pointing out that 2011-Novak is the anomaly in his career - not the norm. He's reverted to type somewhat, but with occasional flashes of 2011 brilliance. And of course, since this miraculous level ended, in Oz 2012, he's won 1 slam out of 6.

And 1 match out of 6 against Rafa...

Kieran, with descriptors such as "miraculous" and "maniac" and characterizations of his play such as "swung for the fences" and "painted lines", you are clearly attempting to put an asterisk in everyone's mind about his 2011 level. You are not complimenting him so much as knocking him down.

He claims he wasn't, but even if he were, that's just a page out of your playbook, isn't it? You're the king of the back-handed compliment when it comes to Nadal. Perhaps that's why you read it that way.

 

[brokenshoelace]

^^ Again, it wouldn't be Cali if he didn't think every single thought that occurs to him is over-the-top thread-worthy.

 

[El Dude]

My dad can kick all of your dads' butts.

So there.

 

[DarthFed]

To be honest Darth, expectations have got ridiculous if any year a player wins a major is regarded as subpar.

Top players are greedy. I don't think Nole would be happy with his year so far, especially the recent tournaments.

 

[calitennis127]

^^ Again, it wouldn't be Cali if he didn't think every single thought that occurs to him is over-the-top thread-worthy.

Actually, if you didn't suffer from your apparent incipient amnesia, you would recall that Kieran has been saying the type of thing I am addressing with this thread regularly for the past year and a half. I have addressed it on many threads not begun by me before, but with his latest comments after the Montreal semifinals, I felt it was finally time to address it with an overt thread.

 

[brokenshoelace]

To be honest Darth, expectations have got ridiculous if any year a player wins a major is regarded as subpar.

Top players are greedy. I don't think Nole would be happy with his year so far, especially the recent tournaments.

I actually agree with this, but I don't think we can judge a player's year based on what we believe are his thoughts about it.

 

[brokenshoelace]

^^ Again, it wouldn't be Cali if he didn't think every single thought that occurs to him is over-the-top thread-worthy.

Actually, if you didn't suffer from your apparent incipient amnesia, you would recall that Kieran has been saying the type of thing I am addressing with this thread regularly for the past year and a half. I have addressed it on many threads not begun by me before, but with his latest comments after the Montreal semifinals, I felt it was finally time to address it with an overt thread.

Awesome. I hope you're equally as patient before you open your next thread.

 

[calitennis127]

^^ Again, it wouldn't be Cali if he didn't think every single thought that occurs to him is over-the-top thread-worthy.

Actually, if you didn't suffer from your apparent incipient amnesia, you would recall that Kieran has been saying the type of thing I am addressing with this thread regularly for the past year and a half. I have addressed it on many threads not begun by me before, but with his latest comments after the Montreal semifinals, I felt it was finally time to address it with an overt thread.

Awesome. I hope you're equally as patient before you open your next thread.

Would you like me to PM you for permission beforehand?

 

[brokenshoelace]

^^ Again, it wouldn't be Cali if he didn't think every single thought that occurs to him is over-the-top thread-worthy.

Actually, if you didn't suffer from your apparent incipient amnesia, you would recall that Kieran has been saying the type of thing I am addressing with this thread regularly for the past year and a half. I have addressed it on many threads not begun by me before, but with his latest comments after the Montreal semifinals, I felt it was finally time to address it with an overt thread.

Awesome. I hope you're equally as patient before you open your next thread.

Would you like me to PM you for permission beforehand?

Absolutely not. It's hard enough reading your posts.