Terrorist shooting in Orlando Florida, at least 50 dead

[DarthFed]

No. Most were not shot in the first few seconds. The only way you can kill than many people in a few seconds is with a fully automatic weapon. Those have been illegal for citizens to own for decades. If such a thing was capable with an AR-15 you'd have to pull the trigger every second. With recoil, you'd never be able to control the weapon firing that rapidly. So, some who say that an AR-15 can shoot 400 rounds per minute fail to realize that you could never move your finger that fast let alone load new clips since a 400 round clip simply doesn't exist for this weapon. The clip would be like five feet long.

Also, someone skilled with a revolver can do more damage than someone with a semiautomatic with no training. If I think otherwise, it's because I shoot all the time and I'm familiar with weapon capabilities.

Finally, I'd have no problem with citizens using grenade launchers, etc. if there was a justified reason to revolt against one's government. The protections we grant ourselves to own and use guns are primarily entrenched in the American Constitution to allow us to protect ourselves and our property, especially from a tyrannical government. If you can't grasp that basic right then you fail to understand even why we have a constitution.

I get the argument but skill level isn't the issue. We are talking about one individual and how he can easily take out a lot of people in a short amount of time. That task is much easier with a semi-automatic rifle. All the deadliest recent mass shootings have that common denominator.

I'm not for an all out gun ban, just the fun guns that are made to kill a lot of people in a quick amount of time. Those guns were originally used by the Army and that's where they belong.

 

[DarthFed]

I also think that most of these mass murders can't be prevented. Even though it would be awful to get to a point where they are just accepted the fact is they have happened and will continue to happen regardless of any changes to the gun laws. The problem I see is that it's too damn easy for the shooters to afflict maximum damage. They aren't all buying semi-automatic rifles to defend themselves from burglars or the government as they plan their attacks.

 

[Billie]

Imagine all the weapons in the US being available to everybody. You would have armed people in armed vehicles all over the place. What a scary thought.

I am not for banning all the weapons, but some kind of control is needed. And not everybody should be just allowed to buy whatever can inflict such damage in short period of time. I grew up with guns as some of my family members were in the military. Heck we even had to shoot a rifle at a target in school. But there was strict control of it for the masses. Everybody who owned a gun had a record with the police and had to go through pages of questions and answers to see if they were sane enough to own a gun.

But what has been happening in the US is beyond control now I am afraid. You can look somebody in the wrong way and can be shot like a dog. This world is crazy and not getting better.

 

[Asmodeus]

Imagine all the weapons in the US being available to everybody. You would have armed people in armed vehicles all over the place. What a scary thought.

I am not for banning all the weapons, but some kind of control is needed. And not everybody should be just allowed to buy whatever can inflict such damage in short period of time. I grew up with guns as some of my family members were in the military. Heck we even had to shoot a rifle at a target in school. But there was strict control of it for the masses. Everybody who owned a gun had a record with the police and had to go through pages of questions and answers to see if they were sane enough to own a gun.

But what has been happening in the US is beyond control now I am afraid. You can look somebody in the wrong way and can be shot like a dog. This world is crazy and not getting better.

Everything you describe is all ready in place in the US. While there is some variation across states, everyone needs to pass a background check, and criminals and the insane are banned from the purchase of weapons etc. Some of the failures you see with mass shoots is that the bureaus and agencies currently in place to prevent these attacks frequently fail. For instance, the young man who killed 9 people at a church last year was on the a gun ownership ban. However, when he went to purchase his guns legally the system did not stop him. Another problem here in the US is straw buyers. This is when citizens who can legally own guns buy them for criminals, a common in gang communities.

In my mind, since we have all the required laws we need, a better approach is to get federal and state agencies to actually function properly.

Finally, and this may or may not be comforting to some, but the likelihood from dying in one of these attacks is quite small. The real problem in the US is daily homicide rates in most urban areas. If 15,000 people a year are murdered in the US and 100 of them are spree killings (rough numbers off the top of my head), it may be that we are focusing on the dramatic since these may actually affect our lives. Who cares about minorities killing each other off?

 

[Federberg]

Everything you describe is all ready in place in the US. While there is some variation across states, everyone needs to pass a background check, and criminals and the insane are banned from the purchase of weapons etc. Some of the failures you see with mass shoots is that the bureaus and agencies currently in place to prevent these attacks frequently fail. For instance, the young man who killed 9 people at a church last year was on the a gun ownership ban. However, when he went to purchase his guns legally the system did not stop him. Another problem here in the US is straw buyers. This is when citizens who can legally own guns buy them for criminals, a common in gang communities.

In my mind, since we have all the required laws we need, a better approach is to get federal and state agencies to actually function properly.

Finally, and this may or may not be comforting to some, but the likelihood from dying in one of these attacks is quite small. The real problem in the US is daily homicide rates in most urban areas. If 15,000 people a year are murdered in the US and 100 of them are spree killings (rough numbers off the top of my head), it may be that we are focusing on the dramatic since these may actually affect our lives. Who cares about minorities killing each other off?

Wow! That's a bit harsh isn't it?

At the end of the day if minorities didn't feel disenfranchised and real practical day to day opportunities don't exist for them do we really think that intra-race homicides would remain at current levels? It seems fairly stark to me that on the one hand a rapist jock in California can get a pass (i.e., have a lighter sentence because of his promising future) for a fairly disgusting attack, but on a daily basis African Americans can be killed during traffic stops (many of which aren't even legal or justified), or can be incarcerated for fairly minor crimes?

I'm outraged by what happened in Dallas, we all should be. But equally we should be outraged to see the images of the killings that preceded the sniper attack. Why are we not all outraged? I really don't get it.

 

[Billie]

Everything you describe is all ready in place in the US. While there is some variation across states, everyone needs to pass a background check, and criminals and the insane are banned from the purchase of weapons etc. Some of the failures you see with mass shoots is that the bureaus and agencies currently in place to prevent these attacks frequently fail. For instance, the young man who killed 9 people at a church last year was on the a gun ownership ban. However, when he went to purchase his guns legally the system did not stop him. Another problem here in the US is straw buyers. This is when citizens who can legally own guns buy them for criminals, a common in gang communities.

In my mind, since we have all the required laws we need, a better approach is to get federal and state agencies to actually function properly.

Finally, and this may or may not be comforting to some, but the likelihood from dying in one of these attacks is quite small. The real problem in the US is daily homicide rates in most urban areas. If 15,000 people a year are murdered in the US and 100 of them are spree killings (rough numbers off the top of my head), it may be that we are focusing on the dramatic since these may actually affect our lives. Who cares about minorities killing each other off?

Thanks for explaining the process of obtaining guns in the USA to me. If everybody needs to pass a background check how was the Orlando shooter allowed to buy those guns that he used. He was brought 2 times for questioning by FBI a few years ago. A few months ago there was a TV segment on Canadian TV about this issue and even though he wasn't even an American citizen, there was a way for this Canadian journalist to buy a gun in Texas, legally. I am sorry but that should not happen. These rules are not strict, I am afraid, or as you say the laws are not functioning properly. I am not against guns, but who might purchase them and what is available for mass population, that I am against.

The likelihood that we die in a car accident might be even higher than mass shootings, still it doesn't mean that we should not be concerned about these horrible events. And yes, the homicide rates in the urban areas are a big issue and should not be minimised on account of mass shootings. But we now live in the world where sensationalism is at the top of all media so these things grab everybody's attention.

 

[britbox]

Wow! That's a bit harsh isn't it?

At the end of the day if minorities didn't feel disenfranchised and real practical day to day opportunities don't exist for them do we really think that intra-race homicides would remain at current levels? It seems fairly stark to me that on the one hand a rapist jock in California can get a pass (i.e., have a lighter sentence because of his promising future) for a fairly disgusting attack, but on a daily basis African Americans can be killed during traffic stops (many of which aren't even legal or justified), or can be incarcerated for fairly minor crimes?

I'm outraged by what happened in Dallas, we all should be. But equally we should be outraged to see the images of the killings that preceded the sniper attack. Why are we not all outraged? I really don't get it.

I think a lot of people are outraged by some of the killings that preceded the events in Dallas... hence the demonstrations. Still, it doesn't mean that people shouldn't be outraged about what happened in Dallas - cold blooded murder.

However, I don't agree with your opening statement that minorities kill each other because they feel disenfranchised... most of the killings within minorities usually relate to gangland or drug feuds... where extreme violence takes precedent.

 

[Federberg]

I think a lot of people are outraged by some of the killings that preceded the events in Dallas... hence the demonstrations. Still, it doesn't mean that people shouldn't be outraged about what happened in Dallas - cold blooded murder.

However, I don't agree with your opening statement that minorities kill each other because they feel disenfranchised... most of the killings within minorities usually relate to gangland or drug feuds... where extreme violence takes precedent.

Ah! Let me be clear. I wasn't saying that was why they kill each other. Apologies if that wasn't clear. My point is that if you don't have access to a decent education, or jobs etc it's no surprise that crime rates are higher, as the easy alternative is to join a gang. I was reading a report some time ago which indicates that you're far less likely to be considered for a job in America if you have an African American sounding name. Some academics tested the theory out, and there was a statistically significant change in your chance of being considered with exactly the same qualifications if your name didn't have the right look.

What happened in Dallas was absolutely cold blooded murder. I like the fact that a lot of African Americans in Dallas have come out in praise of the police on that day. And I liked what the police chief said... "we're hiring. If you want to make a difference in your community, please apply"