State Your Controversial Opinions Here

brokenshoelace

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You ever had some controversial tennis opinions that you're too hesitant to share due to the potential reactions of fellow forum posters? Well, channel your inner Cali, and spill them out. They could be anything from certain aspects of a player's game, your thoughts on a surface, a tournament, commentators, etc...

I'll get the ball rolling. Be warned, this is going to be juicy:

1) Rafael Nadal's volleys are overrated:

Yes, we all hear it every single time he makes a volley: He's such an underrated volleyer! Maybe...6 years ago. At this point, they're more overrated than underrated. This is in large part due to the fact that when he first hit the scene, Nadal's volleys were non existent and he was way too hesitant to attack the net. As he's improved, he's admirably grown more confident, and has show a very good touch around the net. Deservedly, he's gotten props for these improvements...except he continues to get props for improvements he stopped making 6 years ago. Nadal's volleys now are exactly the same as they were 4 years ago. Yet if everyone is to be believed, they've exponentially continued to improve with each year. The truth is, he's got some very good drop volleys, a rock solid overhead, deals with high volleys quite well, and has good anticipation. However, he is occasionally heavy handed (some of his drop volleys end up being easy put aways for the opponent) and his punch volleys are non existent. Furthermore, anything less than a perfect approach makes him quite vulnerable.

2) Roger Federer's rally forehand from his actual forehand side is a touch overrated, even in his prime:

In his prime, Roger's forehand was unplayable. It is the single greatest shot in the history of tennis. When he ran around his backhand, the point was over. There really was a time when giving him a forehand was as good as giving up the point. However, even back then, his rally forehand in the neutral game wasn't quite as devastating as labelled (that's to say, it was still one of the best on tour, but perhaps a touch overstated).

3) Novak Djokovic has been a better defender than Rafael Nadal for about 4 years now.

Sorry, but someone had to say it. I know this is a big no-no because Nadal is the de facto best defender on tour, and for the longest time, he was. On clay, he still was, at least as recently as 2013 (not sure about last year and the jury is out on this year). But on hard courts and especially, grass, I don't even think there's much of a debate. It's not just about getting to balls, but the sort of deep replies Djokovic hits at full stretch from obscene positions is uncanny. Nadal is the best defender in tennis history, but this isn't 2007 anymore.

4) Every single tennis "legend" is an awful, awful commentator.

I'm not just talking about bias, annoying commentary habits, or what have you. I am talking about the level of analysis. It's funny because we give them so many passes for saying stupid things because we've grown numb to it by now, but I swear you find a better level of tennis analysis on these forums, and I'm not even joking. Think about it, nobody on these forums would get away with the flip flopping, the ridiculous claims, or the dubious belief that "moving forward" "mixing things up" and "attacking the net" is always the de facto solution for any player ever. I mean, I was watching Dudi Sela getting pushed miles behind the baseline by Nadal and the advice was to "move forward"... Ummm...Any idea how can you do that when the other guy is bossing you around, Mats? Do you hit a defensive lob and rush the net? Because something tells me that's a bad idea.

There are actually good commentators. Goodall and to a lesser extent Koenig are fine (their analysis, while somewhat basic, is usually spot on. If they tone down the redundancy they'd be awesome) and Frew McMillan is easily the best in the business. The American commentating crew makes my ears bleed, and that includes Gilbert and co... Cahill is acceptable (I know he's Australian) and Mac is a disgrace.


5) Baseline tennis > S & V.

Clamoring for the return of serve and volley is the cool and hip thing to say. While most of us would love to see more variety, and players who attack the net are a refreshing and welcomed sight in today's tennis (at least those who do it well), deep down inside, nobody wants to see an all out return to the S and V days but they just won't admit it. What we really mean when we talk about S & V in today's game is someone who can do it well occasionally, and knows how to attack the net after setting it up from the baseline (think Federer, Tsonga, or Dimitrov), but NOT someone who plays a pure S & V game (unless you're enjoying this Muller-Djokovic match. In which case, more power to you).

Bonus controversy:

Much of the talk about the disdain re: baseline tennis and surface homogenization stems from people who aren't fans of Nadal, Djokovic or Murray. Because I've never seen many complain about watching Del Potro play, for some reason (if I've missed his Edberg-esque prowess around the net, excuse my ignorance).

PS: The above was brought to you due to desperate attempts to keep myself from falling asleep, in spite of Gilles Muller's best attempts.

PPS: Do not hesitate to state your opinions, however controversial they are. The rules are that while your opinions can be challenged, it can only be done briefly, as the purpose of this thread is to be able to get away with outrageous claims (as long as you honestly believe them) or things that go against the general consensus. It's all in fun so lighten up.
 

nehmeth

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Broken_Shoelace said:
5) Baseline tennis > S & V.

Clamoring for the return of serve and volley is the cool and hip thing to say. While most of us would love to see more variety, and players who attack the net are a refreshing and welcomed sight in today's tennis (at least those who do it well), deep down inside, nobody wants to see an all out return to the S and V days but they just won't admit it. What we really mean when we talk about S & V in today's game is someone who can do it well occasionally, and knows how to attack the net after setting it up from the baseline (think Federer, Tsonga, or Dimitrov), but NOT someone who plays a pure S & V game (unless you're enjoying this Muller-Djokovic match. In which case, more power to you).

:cover

The Muller/Novak match was too painful to watch.

Whilst Novak was working on getting the break in the second set, he hit a shot to Muller's backhand that should have been right in the guy's strike zone. Muller netted the shot, and Novak had a look of utter disgust on his face.

As he shook his head, you could almost read his thoughts: "This guy sucks and I am out here having to play him because he has a big serve!"

The next time someone wants to complain about the ATP slowing the courts down, Pavlik has posted the link to this match. I encourage them to watch it - the whole thing.

(For the perfect retort, I suggest posting the link to Simon v. Ferrer) :snigger
 

MargaretMcAleer

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One of my biggest beefs with tennis commentators,when they are commentating on a match is their 'over the top' commentary for a particular player.I can easily cite both Jason Goodall and Robbie Koenig when the are commentating on a Federer match,according to them,Federer walks on water.I usually mute them.

I can also say the same when John Mac commentates on a Nadal match,I just cringe when I hear his comments,it's fan boy commentary.

I understand tennis commentators do have their favorite players,personally I feel they have to remain objective in their overall analysis of every player.

I would like to give a shout out to Fred Stolle,a Aussie,particularly when he commentates at Roland Garos every year.Fred has won at Roland Garos and he understands and appreciates clay tennis,in contrast to many other commentators at Roland Garos,who keep going on about players should shorten their points on clay to make it quicker? or use serve/volley more....hmmmmmmmm.

I also like Paul Annacone as a commentator,he is very informative and insightful.
 

Riotbeard

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The gays and the minorities are...


Oh wait, we are talking tennis :laydownlaughing

David Nalbandian is going to win the U.S. Open.
 

nehmeth

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Riotbeard said:
David Nalbandian is going to win the U.S. Open.

:puzzled :cover :nono

nalbandian.jpg


In form and ready to rumble.
 

shawnbm

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The switch from clay to grass has been demystified and its importance lessened due to court engineering.
 

Murat Baslamisli

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Serve lets should be play on...any other time it is a play on, so...It will save time.

JMac and Carillo should retire from the commentating business.

Indoor carpet should make a comeback. I remember watching some legendary matches on that surface. Just a couple tourneys would be nice. Get rid of one hard court and one clay tournament, you are set. Too many of those anyways.
 

Kieran

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Two totally controversial ones here: one is that Rafa can actually beat great players when they both play great tennis. Shocking, I know, and bound to lead to a warning from the mods, but there you have it. The man who stands joint second in the list of major winners is actually able to beat great players, he doesn't just lie back and wait for them to play lousy. And he would have a good chance of doing it anywhere, if he's at his best.

The second one is less controversial, but it's more of an observation: I never in my life witnessed a player double fault on the first point they serve in the match - and go on to win the match.

Never.

And I been watching tennis almost...well...a long time. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I never seen it. In fact, I got up to watch Rafa this morn and I missed his first point on serve, only the commentators mentioned he opened with a double, and I was like, "ah lads, you could have told me that an hour ago, I'd be back in me bed..." :popcorn
 

sid

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Serve & how long it can take,yet Reff's do nothing when time wasting is going on.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

To this,rant over with.
 

Denis

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Kieran said:
Two totally controversial ones here: one is that Rafa can actually beat great players when they both play great tennis. Shocking, I know, and bound to lead to a warning from the mods, but there you have it. The man who stands joint second in the list of major winners is actually able to beat great players, he doesn't just lie back and wait for them to play lousy. And he would have a good chance of doing it anywhere, if he's at his best.

The second one is less controversial, but it's more of an observation: I never in my life witnessed a player double fault on the first point they serve in the match - and go on to win the match.

Never.

And I been watching tennis almost...well...a long time. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I never seen it. In fact, I got up to watch Rafa this morn and I missed his first point on serve, only the commentators mentioned he opened with a double, and I was like, "ah lads, you could have told me that an hour ago, I'd be back in me bed..." :popcorn

Your first point would only be controversial if you would say that both players play at their best and Nadal can lose. That would be alike to the pope losing faith. ;)
 

brokenshoelace

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^^^ This reminds me of another controversial opinion:

If a top tennis player plays his absolute best, he cannot lose. No, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm genuinely serious.

In an absolute sense, playing your best if you're as good as Federer, Nadal or Djokovic, automatically means you're stopping your opponent from playing his. And therefore, you'll win. What we often see is two players playing well at the same time, or taking turns playing great throughout the match, but not necessarily "their best."

Look at Djokovic vs. Nadal matches. Please cite me a match in which the loser played his best. As in, do you really think that the 2010 US Open final, was up there with the best tennis Djokovic played? Or do you really think that those wins Djokovic had over Nadal on clay were up there with Nadal's best ever clay court performances?

What happens in some matches where we like to believe the loser played his "best" is simply a case of him playing well for the most part (good enough to beat most players) but just got outplayed. Played his best though? Not in a million years.

The closest I've seen Nadal and Djokovic come to playing their "best" in the same match was the second half of the 2011 US Open final, bits of their matches in Miami and Rome earlier that year, the final set of their 2013 French Open semi, the 2008 Queens final, the 2008 Hamburg semi, etc...

That's why those matches are so dearly remembered. Because two players played great in the same match. But when one plays his absolute best, he'll generally beat the other one with ease, even between two elite players, and we've seen both Nadal and Djokovic get relatively "easy" victories over one another.
 

brokenshoelace

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Controversial opinion:

Berdych played better against Nadal in the first two sets of their 2012 encounter than he did yesterday.
 

britbox

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Nick Krygios will win at least one major. I know a lot of people aren't convinced and his ATP record is pretty minimal right now, but this guy is a raw talent. He's got a lot to improve on with regard to shot selection, positioning, defence... but that kind of swings it for me... This guy has huge upside.
 

Haelfix

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Maybe its just me, but so far i've agreed with all the controversial comments, which indicates that they are perhaps not so controversial.

I'll give one. I'd say the unparalleled success of the top 4, during these past 7 or 8 years and in particular Novak and Nadal is due in at least a reasonable part, to surface homogenization and in particular the use of a certain type of ball that tends to
1) Take topspin
2) Fluff up after a few points, which causes a good amount of slow down.

This then instantly favors consistent baseline play, defensive tennis and disfavors players with bigger serves, net play and players with flatter or slice shots which has a tendency of really reducing the variance in results.
 

Federberg

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Federer's poor head to head versus Rafa doesn't detract from his greatness. It confirms it.

I speak about the H2H of up until the last few years, where it's clear Roger is now in serious decline. My argument is based on the fact that greats from other era's tended to primarily confront each other on specific surfaces (grass & hardcourt; clay and hardcourt etc). Because of the high seedings of the greats they were only ever really likely to meet deeper in tournaments, but to meet there they had to be good enough to overcome their respective opposition which was far less likely. You only have to look at the Sampras - Agassi rivalry.. how much better would the H2H have been for Agassi if Sampras was able to get deeper in clay court events which would clearly have been to Agassi's advantage? Yet when we look at the stats it will say that Sampras was overwhelmingly superior to Agassi... while I would definitely argue that Sampras was the greater player I think the H2H overstates how superior he was. We would think a lot differently if Sampras had been able to get far enough to repeatedly lose to Agassi on clay.

When you look at the Fedal rivalry, Roger was good enough to contest Rafa on any surface and he paid for it dearly. Would we even talk about the H2H so much IF Federer wasn't good enough to get deep enough to suffer a clay court beating? It is simply perverse to suggest that because Federer lost so many times on clay because he was good enough to get to finals that it means he's actually a worse player. For that reason, in my opinion, this stat actually confirms his true greatness. Let the polemic start! :D
 
F

Fastgrass

britbox said:
Nick Krygios will win at least one major. I know a lot of people aren't convinced and his ATP record is pretty minimal right now, but this guy is a raw talent. He's got a lot to improve on with regard to shot selection, positioning, defence... but that kind of swings it for me... This guy has huge upside.

LOL how this is even controversial? It's consensus!
 

El Dude

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Rafael Nadal does actually lose matches in which he isn't injured or "off his game." Sometimes he is simply outplayed.

(Ducks tomatoes)
 

August

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String technology is too advanced. That's why courts were slowed down and the game become more baseline-dominated.

Some sports set stricter rules for equipment when they become too advanced. Tennis doesn't do that, I wonder if there's been some lobbying from the racquet industry?
 

Ilovetennis2

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fashionista said:
One of my biggest beefs with tennis commentators,when they are commentating on a match is their 'over the top' commentary for a particular player.I can easily cite both Jason Goodall and Robbie Koenig when the are commentating on a Federer match,according to them,Federer walks on water.I usually mute them.

I can also say the same when John Mac commentates on a Nadal match,I just cringe when I hear his comments,it's fan boy commentary.

I understand tennis commentators do have their favorite players,personally I feel they have to remain objective in their overall analysis of every player.

I would like to give a shout out to Fred Stolle,a Aussie,particularly when he commentates at Roland Garos every year.Fred has won at Roland Garos and he understands and appreciates clay tennis,in contrast to many other commentators at Roland Garos,who keep going on about players should shorten their points on clay to make it quicker? or use serve/volley more....hmmmmmmmm.

I also like Paul Annacone as a commentator,he is very informative and insightful.

I totally agree with the above. Listening to the commentary on Japan TV when Nishikori is playing is painful to my ears. I miss real commentators.