Another Boko Haram attack.....

calitennis127

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I wonder if Murat and Riotbeard will blame this latest suicide killing from Boko Haram (there was another one at a school two weeks ago) on Old Testament verses making people be lunatics?

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Africa/2014/1125/Teen-girl-suicide-bombers-kill-30-in-Nigeria-Boko-Haram-suspected-video
 

Riotbeard

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calitennis127 said:
I wonder if Murat and Riotbeard will blame this latest suicide killing from Boko Haram (there was another one at a school two weeks ago) on Old Testament verses making people be lunatics?

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Africa/2014/1125/Teen-girl-suicide-bombers-kill-30-in-Nigeria-Boko-Haram-suspected-video

Get real and read other peoples post, instead of useless ad hominum attacks.
 

calitennis127

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Riotbeard said:
calitennis127 said:
I wonder if Murat and Riotbeard will blame this latest suicide killing from Boko Haram (there was another one at a school two weeks ago) on Old Testament verses making people be lunatics?

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Africa/2014/1125/Teen-girl-suicide-bombers-kill-30-in-Nigeria-Boko-Haram-suspected-video

Get real and read other peoples post, instead of useless ad hominum attacks.


I obviously read your posts because otherwise I wouldn't have created this thread. What you said was that it makes no sense for Christians to talk about violent scriptures in the Qu'ran when the Old Testament has violent passages. So this is just one way of me replying to that argument.

Do you not have anything to say back? Are you conceding that there are no arguments you can retort with here?
 

calitennis127

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1972Murat said:
Boko Haram (most likely) attacked a mosque in Nigeria today, killing dozens. A "mosque"...where Muslims go to pray...

What do you make of that Cali?


It only reinforces my point. Bin Laden and other pious Muslims have often made the case that within the strictures of the Islamic canon the deaths of other Muslims is regrettable but nonetheless justified if it makes sense for advancing the cause of Allah.

And, again, as far as the Christian v. Muslim argument, do you see these attacks happening weekly among Christian denominations???? There is a new Muslim terrorist attack with 40+ casualties somewhere in the world EVERY WEEK. There is no comparison between Islam and Christianity in this regard. It is the height of silliness and fact-denying to say that both of these major religions are prone to the same kind of extremism.

The other issue, Murat, is that these sects like Boko Haram are somewhere in every Islamic society. They are always branded as "extremists" - which they certainly are in terms of temperament - but they are omnipresent in Islamic societies. Every Muslim country has that 10% or so of "fringe extremists" who want to impose Sharia and are willing to pull off suicide attacks to achieve that end. Now why is that? Is it just coincidence that poor Islam has ended up with this modern-day band of maniacs - everywhere where Muslims are?

No, it isn't. The hadiths, combined with the legal traditions of Islam as well as a couple key Qu'ranic verses, make jihad the duty of all pious Muslims. Islam is not solely about jihad, of course, but it is no coincidence that so many of the most pious Muslims in diverse Islamic societies across the world all turn to this worldview - the Taliban, Boko Haram, ISIS, the radicals in London, etc. etc. It doesn't matter if they are in Africa, Pakistan, Austria, Indonesia, or Washington, D.C.: serious Muslims share this devotion to jihad and ambition to instill Sharia.
 

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^ Well there used to be tit for tat killings between catholics and protestants in N.Ireland for a long time but at the end of the day you need to differentiate between religion and what people do "in the name of religion". There has been a LOT of deaths in the "name of religion" but their is a subtle difference between that and religion being identified as the cause.

A lot of these people would be killing for some other "cause" if religions did not exist. I've never bought the argument that religion causes more wars and death than anything else. It's tribal.
 

calitennis127

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britbox said:
^ Well there used to be tit for tat killings between catholics and protestants in N.Ireland for a long time but at the end of the day you need to differentiate between religion and what people do "in the name of religion". There has been a LOT of deaths in the "name of religion" but their is a subtle difference between that and religion being identified as the cause.

A lot of these people would be killing for some other "cause" if religions did not exist. I've never bought the argument that religion causes more wars and death than anything else. It's tribal.


Britbox, that is an entirely different conversation. I do find it absurd, as I have said many times, to say that religion (with perhaps the exception of Islam in certain cases) causes war more than any other factor in human societies.

But you simply have to not know anything of what jihadists say themselves about their own motivations to argue that they do not have justification from their own religious tradition. And it is even more ridiculous for people to say that Islam does not have a unique problem with fostering "violent extremism". Literally every week there is a new suicide attack and a couple new foiled plots somewhere in the world. The idea that every one of these "extremists" is just misinterpreting his religion is seriously one of the most irrational positions any one could take on anything.
 

calitennis127

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britbox said:
^ Well there used to be tit for tat killings between catholics and protestants in N.Ireland for a long time but at the end of the day you need to differentiate between religion and what people do "in the name of religion".

True, so you have to look at the texts and the traditions of religions to see whether actions are justified or not. In the case of Islam, groups like Boko Haram have all too much justification.
 

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calitennis127 said:
britbox said:
^ Well there used to be tit for tat killings between catholics and protestants in N.Ireland for a long time but at the end of the day you need to differentiate between religion and what people do "in the name of religion".

True, so you have to look at the texts and the traditions of religions to see whether actions are justified or not. In the case of Islam, groups like Boko Haram have all too much justification.

While I agree that there are extreme religious fundamentalists and Islam seems to have more than most other global religions I think the primary reason ISIS has evolved is blowback from western policy in the middle east. Flood an area with weapons, disenfranchise large swathes of the population, pump masses of money in to artificially change the geopolitical situation and you create monsters like this.
 

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Since WWW II's Japanese kamikaze, I can't remember any other political, military or religious groups but radical islamists that use suicide attacks for their causes. Would you agree that this is unique to them and very frequent?

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20141129/1015300500.html
 

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Billie said:
Since WWW II's Japanese kamikaze, I can't remember any other political, military or religious groups but radical islamists that use suicide attacks for their causes. Would you agree that this is unique to them and very frequent?

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20141129/1015300500.html

That is actually not correct. The suicide attack was a major weapon for Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka. Between 1980 and 2003, there were 315 suicide attacks, and 75 were by Tamil Tigers, who are not even religious, but Marksist-Leninist. That number is more than Hamas for that time period.
 

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1972Murat said:
Billie said:
Since WWW II's Japanese kamikaze, I can't remember any other political, military or religious groups but radical islamists that use suicide attacks for their causes. Would you agree that this is unique to them and very frequent?

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20141129/1015300500.html

That is actually not correct. The suicide attack was a major weapon for Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka. Between 1980 and 2003, there were 315 suicide attacks, and 75 were by Tamil Tigers, who are not even religious, but Marksist-Leninist. That number is more than Hamas for that time period.

Luckily they were active in the local area and were eventually defeated. But besides them, who else is known for suicide attacks?
 

Murat Baslamisli

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Billie said:
1972Murat said:
Billie said:
Since WWW II's Japanese kamikaze, I can't remember any other political, military or religious groups but radical islamists that use suicide attacks for their causes. Would you agree that this is unique to them and very frequent?

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20141129/1015300500.html

That is actually not correct. The suicide attack was a major weapon for Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka. Between 1980 and 2003, there were 315 suicide attacks, and 75 were by Tamil Tigers, who are not even religious, but Marksist-Leninist. That number is more than Hamas for that time period.

Luckily they were active in the local area and were eventually defeated. But besides them, who else is known for suicide attacks?

It is not the happiest of subjects but Robert Pape has a very interesting book called "Dying To Win" and it is all about suicide attacks. It is quite an eye opener actually. I recommend it.
 

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No offence Murat, but I am sick of killings, dying and all that crap.:nono
 

calitennis127

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britbox said:
calitennis127 said:
britbox said:
^ Well there used to be tit for tat killings between catholics and protestants in N.Ireland for a long time but at the end of the day you need to differentiate between religion and what people do "in the name of religion".

True, so you have to look at the texts and the traditions of religions to see whether actions are justified or not. In the case of Islam, groups like Boko Haram have all too much justification.

While I agree that there are extreme religious fundamentalists and Islam seems to have more than most other global religions I think the primary reason ISIS has evolved is blowback from western policy in the middle east. Flood an area with weapons, disenfranchise large swathes of the population, pump masses of money in to artificially change the geopolitical situation and you create monsters like this.


Completely agree on U.S. foreign policy. And then you add in the idea of beheading people from your religious founder and imposing Shariah law and it's even more of a mess.
 

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Be careful about conflating Boko Haram with other Islamist terrorist organisations. It wouldn't shock me if their threat tails off now that a Northerner has won the Presidency in Nigeria. In all likelihood we'll start to hear more about MEND, the terrorist organisation that operates in the Delta region going forward. When a Northerner is President, attacks happen in the South, and when a Southerner is President... well you get the picture...