2025 Wimbledon SF: Novak Djokovic vs. Jannik Sinner

[kskate2]

Again, the question must be asked. How long will he continue to stay out there and take these beatings.

 

[kskate2]

Red is ruthless. He lost his focus there for about 15 minutes, but gained it back quickly.

 

[Federberg]

Again, the question must be asked. How long will he continue to stay out there and take these beatings.

great question. That last set was a special type of beating. He was dismissed like first round fodder in the end. Tough position to be in. Good enough for the 2nd week but increasingly getting spanked badly against the big dogs

 

[kskate2]

great question. That last set was a special type of beating. He was dismissed like first round fodder in the end. Tough position to be in. Good enough for the 2nd week but increasingly getting spanked badly against the big dogs

It's the ongoing convo we've had. He's great at week 1 and with a favorable draw. But look what happens when he has to play the top dawgs. He got Chuck in AO, but look what it took out of him. He killed himself to win that match so he could say he was still relevant all along he wasn't fit enough to win against his pigeon Zed. This is what age does. Happened to Serena, Fed and everybody else.

 

[Moxie]

great question. That last set was a special type of beating. He was dismissed like first round fodder in the end. Tough position to be in. Good enough for the 2nd week but increasingly getting spanked badly against the big dogs

As long as Sinner and Alcaraz stay at #1 and #2, he's more than likely to have to beat both to win a Major, which is seeming more and more impossible. Let's see what happens at the USO, I guess.

 

[don_fabio]

It's a pity that the match went this way, no fight in Novak due to his leg issue and it was basically over before it started. Not sure why he even came out to play . Hope final will deliver some great tennis.

 

[Federberg]

As long as Sinner and Alcaraz stay at #1 and #2, he's more than likely to have to beat both to win a Major, which is seeming more and more impossible. Let's see what happens at the USO, I guess.

I have to think that Carlito is getting peed off with his lack of success in the hardcourt slams. I wouldn't. be shocked if he has a special kind of hunger to do well in NYC this year. Finals has to be his target at a minimum.

 

[kskate2]

It's a pity that the match went this way, no fight in Novak due to his leg issue and it was basically over before it started. Not sure why he even came out to play . Hope final will deliver some great tennis.

I assume it will be another barnburner like RG. And whoever said it is right, Chuck needs to raise his game to beat Red.

 

[Andy22]

Hate to say it but it's time to retire Djokovic match wins is useless record no need to play for this.

 

[El Dude]

As long as Sinner and Alcaraz stay at #1 and #2, he's more than likely to have to beat both to win a Major, which is seeming more and more impossible. Let's see what happens at the USO, I guess.

Not only that, consider that he's now lost his last THREE Slam matches against Sinner, last beating him in 2023 at Wimbledon when Jannik was just starting to rise to elite status. Sinner's now 6-4 in the overall H2H. He DID beat Carlos at the AO this year in the QF and they're tied at 2-2 in Slams, with Novak having a 5-3 overall edge.

Now I don't think Novak would change anything to preserve his lead in the H2H over Carlos, but if he loses to him again, there must be some small temptation to "opt out" of matches against him to preserve the 5-4 lead. I know, he wouldn't do that (I think), but it is quite possible they only play once more and he maintains that lead, while I think Jannik's lead will only get larger.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

If Sinner wins the Wimbledon final, he enters the Top 10 of the GOAT list. If Alcaraz wins, I'm not so sure because he doesn't have that run at the Australian Open, but he'd be knocking on the door at #11 or #12.

They'll both be well into the Top 10 when it is all said and done.

 

[Federberg]

Not only that, consider that he's now lost his last THREE Slam matches against Sinner, last beating him in 2023 at Wimbledon when Jannik was just starting to rise to elite status. Sinner's now 6-4 in the overall H2H. He DID beat Carlos at the AO this year in the QF and they're tied at 2-2 in Slams, with Novak having a 5-3 overall edge.

Now I don't think Novak would change anything to preserve his lead in the H2H over Carlos, but if he loses to him again, there must be some small temptation to "opt out" of matches against him to preserve the 5-4 lead. I know, he wouldn't do that (I think), but it is quite possible they only play once more and he maintains that lead, while I think Jannik's lead will only get larger.

do you really believe the H2H matters that much to these guys? These are apex predators. If Novak wants to get to 25, it simply makes no sense to me that he'll duck Carlos. It's about winning tournaments, not H2H.

PS, I rather suspect that at this stage Novak is as interested in winning titles to surpass Federer's number as winning slams.

 

[Moxie]

Not only that, consider that he's now lost his last THREE Slam matches against Sinner, last beating him in 2023 at Wimbledon when Jannik was just starting to rise to elite status. Sinner's now 6-4 in the overall H2H. He DID beat Carlos at the AO this year in the QF and they're tied at 2-2 in Slams, with Novak having a 5-3 overall edge.

Now I don't think Novak would change anything to preserve his lead in the H2H over Carlos, but if he loses to him again, there must be some small temptation to "opt out" of matches against him to preserve the 5-4 lead. I know, he wouldn't do that (I think), but it is quite possible they only play once more and he maintains that lead, while I think Jannik's lead will only get larger.

Novak's not going to do that, just for a h2h. That's a small bragging right. If he's even vaguely inclined to that, he should retire today.

 

[Federberg]

If Sinner wins the Wimbledon final, he enters the Top 10 of the GOAT list. If Alcaraz wins, I'm not so sure because he doesn't have that run at the Australian Open, but he'd be knocking on the door at #11 or #12.

They'll both be well into the Top 10 when it is all said and done.

how does that work? If Sinner wins he'll be on 4? If Carlos wins he'll be 6. Matching Becker and Edberg

 

[El Dude]

Novak has made the SF of all three Grand Slams so far - not bad for a 37-38 year old. While the likelihood of #25 seem to be diminishing, it is hard to tell him to quit when he's still probably the 3rd best player on tour - even if there's a sizable gap between 1-2 and him. We're really in a similar position as Roger from 2011 on, and Roger managed to win four more Slams. Of course Roger was 30 when he won Wimbledon 2012, and 35-36 for his last three. So the situation is more like Roger in 2019, when he was the same age as Novak is now. But unlike Novak, Roger didn't have two young greats in their prime to contend with. And of course Roger had a catastrophic injury not long after that ended his career. Novak has been struggling with injuries, but nothing major.

Who knows what he'll do going forward. He'll finish out the year and I suppose an ATP Finals title would build confidence. It is hard imagining him retiring before his "home turf" in Australia, but I wouldn't be surprised if he plays his last Grand Slam sometime in 2026. He's now lost the last seven Slams, which is his longest dry spell since 2008-10. At what point will it become clear to him that he can't win another? I highly doubt he plays anything close to a full schedule through the 2028 Olympics, despite what he said. At most, he'll play something like 10-12 tournaments in 2026, 8-10 in 2027, and half a dozen in 2028, including the Olympics. I suppose that's possible, but that's probably a lot of lost Slams. Not sure he'll carry on through that.

 

[Moxie]

do you really believe the H2H matters that much to these guys? These are apex predators. If Novak wants to get to 25, it simply makes no sense to me that he'll duck Carlos. It's about winning tournaments, not H2H.

PS, I rather suspect that at this stage Novak is as interested in winning titles to surpass Federer's number as winning slams.

I agree with the first bit, of course. It was like when some were calling for Roger to lose to Novak in the 2011 RG SF, so that Novak, who was on a winning streak v. Rafa, could meet him in the final instead of Roger, and Federer took out Djokovic, ending his win streak, I think. They're not built to tank. Also, if Novak wants to win Majors, he's very likely to have to go through Carlitos, so he's going to have to believe he can.

As to the PS, though, I don't think he's as interested in # of titles as he is in one more Major. He needs 10 more titles to pass Roger, I think, and that seems like a tall order. He's past the century mark, and I bet he'd be OK with that, if he takes another Slam title.

 

[El Dude]

how does that work? If Sinner wins he'll be on 4? If Carlos wins he'll be 6. Matching Becker and Edberg

GOAT points doesn't include just Slams, and nor should it. I don't think it is a perfect system, but to focus on Slams alone is hugely reductionistic.

 

[Federberg]

I agree with the first bit, of course. It was like when some were calling for Roger to lose to Novak in the 2011 RG SF, so that Novak, who was on a winning streak v. Rafa, could meet him in the final instead of Roger, and Federer took out Djokovic, ending his win streak, I think. They're not built to tank. Also, if Novak wants to win Majors, he's very likely to have to go through Carlitos, so he's going to have to believe he can.

As to the PS, though, I don't think he's as interested in # of titles as he is in one more Major. He needs 10 more titles to pass Roger, I think, and that seems like a tall order. He's past the century mark, and I bet he'd be OK with that, if he takes another Slam title.

no I think he's only 3 behind at 100

 

[El Dude]

And to be clear, I DON'T think Novak will "duck" Carlos...it is just something to note, and I wonder if it will cross his mind. But I don't think he'd actually alter his schedule or duck out. Though I do think he'd consider withdrawing against either of Sincaraz if he wasn't close to 100%.

 

[Federberg]

GOAT points doesn't include just Slams, and nor should it. I don't think it is a perfect system, but to focus on Slams alone is hugely reductionistic.

lol! Who died and came up with that rule? So by that logic is Agassi ahead of Sampras?