Do you believe that “Everything Is Political?”

[Kieran]

Do you believe the phrase, Everything is Political?

We often hear this, and I tend to associate it with modern political thought, mainly driven by the left. My general response is, “is a tennis ball political? Surely that’s part of everything?”

“Is the slow movement of Mozart’s 21st piano concerto political?”

You get where I’m going. You wouldn’t believe which direction the conversation then takes - except you would believe it. Buzz words, catchphrases, hierarchy, Whiteness, patriarchy, etc. Is a hard boiled egg political? It is if it’s properly associated with animal abuse and most likely, cultural appropriation.

I know people of faith think politics is merely a tool of the devil and that the bigger picture is the one we should focus on.

AI helped me with this view (which made me suspicious about AI):

It’s worthwhile posting the question to the machine, to see if the response to the question itself has been politicised.

So, nonpartisan:

Is everything political? Or is politics ruining everything?

 

[mrzz]

Fucking idiots that deserve to die in agony believe that everything is political, and in doing so they turn everything into a political discussion, which in turn makes everything seem political.

When I will finally become emperor of the world, I will... Actually, I won't bother with that. I will be busy torturing defenseless little beings.

 

[Moxie]

In a milder version of @mrzz's comment above, while it is true that we don't always think about how politics affects certain things in our lives, as illustrated by the OP, it IS tiresome to make everything political. (Extreme examples: During the Obama years, the Republicans couldn't help but leap on the fact that he liked his hamburger with mustard, not ketchup. So mustard became "Democrat" and ketchup "Republican." And let's not forget "Freedom Fries." Both have to be some nadir.)

We have sports and arts and many things as a relief from politics. Do they sometimes get political? Yes, they do. Do we have the choice to ignore that, and enjoy them for what they are? Yes, we do.

Politicizing everything is not just top down, these days, it's also bottom up. Plenty of individuals take to social media to politicize everything. Well, that's their choice, then, but I will have to pass on some of it, for sure.

I also know a lot of people in my sphere that think that the past year was terrible because of the politics in the US. IMO, politically, in the US, it was. However, in my own life, it was great, for the most part. I lost a dear friend, but, on balance, it was excellent in so many ways. Filled with wonder and travel and connections to friends. You HAVE to separate the political from the personal. Otherwise, you make yourself crazy. And I know people that are making themselves depressed over it. It's not worth it.

 

[mrzz]

So mustard became "Democrat" and ketchup "Republican."

Are you positively sure you do not agree with my post above?

 

[Moxie]

Are you positively sure you do not agree with my post above?

In the sense that some people are so ridiculous that it makes me want to pick off their wings, then yes, I do.

 

[Kieran]

Fucking idiots that deserve to die in agony believe that everything is political, and in doing so they turn everything into a political discussion, which in turn makes everything seem political.

When I will finally become emperor of the world, I will... Actually, I won't bother with that. I will be busy torturing defenseless little beings.

And I will point them out to you!

 

[Kieran]

In a milder version of @mrzz's comment above, while it is true that we don't always think about how politics affects certain things in our lives, as illustrated by the OP, it IS tiresome to make everything political. (Extreme examples: During the Obama years, the Republicans couldn't help but leap on the fact that he liked his hamburger with mustard, not ketchup. So mustard became "Democrat" and ketchup "Republican." And let's not forget "Freedom Fries." Both have to be some nadir.)

We have sports and arts and many things as a relief from politics. Do they sometimes get political? Yes, they do. Do we have the choice to ignore that, and enjoy them for what they are? Yes, we do.

Politicizing everything is not just top down, these days, it's also bottom up. Plenty of individuals take to social media to politicize everything. Well, that's their choice, then, but I will have to pass on some of it, for sure.

I also know a lot of people in my sphere that think that the past year was terrible because of the politics in the US. IMO, politically, in the US, it was. However, in my own life, it was great, for the most part. I lost a dear friend, but, on balance, it was excellent in so many ways. Filled with wonder and travel and connections to friends. You HAVE to separate the political from the personal. Otherwise, you make yourself crazy. And I know people that are making themselves depressed over it. It's not worth it.

While I think that Freedom Fries was silly, I do think that retribution politics has a place in the bigger picture of actual politics. For instance, defacing Tesla cars is vandalism, but if a Klansman was explicitly posting retro-racist propaganda and wishing death on black people, it’s fair to avoid his chicken counter at the town fair, despite the fact that everything he says might be covered under the umbrella term of “free speech”. Let’s leave “hate speech” laws aside for a sec, just to see if this point is valid as a principled one, rather than a legal one?

Cancel culture and similar activities like this have validity when someone had placed themselves beyond the pale. But the problem is of course, who gets to decide what’s “beyond the pale?” Usually nowadays there’s no consensus, so the illiterate bastard child of politics - Tribalism - kicks in, usually gets it wrong.

I know I’m veered away from what you were saying, but you know what I mean? It makes it difficult to see what’s appropriately political, and what’s just daft.

You pointed out good examples there of what’s just daft.

I suppose the complex moral issues tend to become political because they shape the society we live, so influential views have to be either defended or defeated.

But bringing politics into culture, as an example, is dangerous, because the culture becomes a place of fear, instead of free expression, and this degrades society. In this sense, a person who believes that everything is political would say that this most especially includes culture, since it can inspire people to change.

I would say that this alone is good reason to keep politics away from it…

 

[Kieran]

But bringing politics into culture, as an example, is dangerous, because the culture becomes a place of fear, instead of free expression, and this degrades society. In this sense, a person who believes that everything is political would say that this most especially includes culture, since it can inspire people to change.

I would say that this alone is good reason to keep politics away from it…

This last point was brought home to me in stark clarity while myself and the missus were listening to Desert Island Discs, a recent episode with the great Salman Rushdie. The barbaric fatwa placed on him by barbaric clerics. It’s different than politics intruding on everything, but it has grim similarities. He wrote a book, FFS, that didn’t even say what they accused him of saying, but so what if it did?

Can culture be left alone in a safe space in any country where politics or religion demand to have the only say? I’m thinking more of the similarly great Mikhail Bulgakov and his brilliant satires of the communist Soviet Union. The Master and Margarita. The Dog’s Heart.

He was one of the lucky ones. At least Stalin allowed him to live…

 

[mrzz]

While I think that Freedom Fries was silly, I do think that retribution politics has a place in the bigger picture of actual politics. For instance, defacing Tesla cars is vandalism, but if a Klansman was explicitly posting retro-racist propaganda and wishing death on black people, it’s fair to avoid his chicken counter at the town fair, despite the fact that everything he says might be covered under the umbrella term of “free speech”. Let’s leave “hate speech” laws aside for a sec, just to see if this point is valid as a principled one, rather than a legal one?

Cancel culture and similar activities like this have validity when someone had placed themselves beyond the pale. But the problem is of course, who gets to decide what’s “beyond the pale?” Usually nowadays there’s no consensus, so the illiterate bastard child of politics - Tribalism - kicks in, usually gets it wrong.

I know I’m veered away from what you were saying, but you know what I mean? It makes it difficult to see what’s appropriately political, and what’s just daft.

You pointed out good examples there of what’s just daft.

I suppose the complex moral issues tend to become political because they shape the society we live, so influential views have to be either defended or defeated.

But bringing politics into culture, as an example, is dangerous, because the culture becomes a place of fear, instead of free expression, and this degrades society. In this sense, a person who believes that everything is political would say that this most especially includes culture, since it can inspire people to change.

I would say that this alone is good reason to keep politics away from it…

Very well put. This leads to a very deep and interesting discussion... hopefuly I can reply in more detail later on.

 

[britbox]

I think the individual creates most of their own reality... We all look at things through our own lens. For some, everything might be political, for others - virtually nothing.

 

[Kieran]

I think the individual creates most of their own reality... We all look at things through our own lens. For some, everything might be political, for others - virtually nothing.

Exactly. I think the days of great political thought are gone, and been replaced by soundbites, tweets and mindless jargon. But this is the place where the most extremist political minds thrive. To most of us, what’s most important is what we’re going to do today, whatever that might be. Could be politics, could be meeting the lads for a pint and stimulating rows about football and women. The importance of this is not to be underestimated!

 

[Federberg]

great thread!

Sadly I think today almost everything is political, and it's inescapable. When you've reached a point where even opening a door for a woman can be considered patriarchal (I'm not talking from experience thankfully, never had a negative response for doing that ) you quickly realise that it's always in the eye of the beholder. You can do the same thing 10 times and it can be received differently based upon the mood or political leanings of the recipient/observer. That's the truth of where we are.

But I would also suggest that human action in itself, if it affects other people becomes intrinsically political. If only because of the butterfly wing effect. Somewhere down the line, by virtue of your action, the by-product will be framed in a political context. This has probably always been the case. The only difference now is technology, and in particular social media has made those individual human actions more.... known... and therefore more susceptible to a political reaction down the line

 

[Kieran]

great thread!

Sadly I think today almost everything is political, and it's inescapable. When you've reached a point where even opening a door for a woman can be considered patriarchal (I'm not talking from experience thankfully, never had a negative response for doing that ) you quickly realise that it's always in the eye of the beholder. You can do the same thing 10 times and it can be received differently based upon the mood or political leanings of the recipient/observer. That's the truth of where we are.

But I would also suggest that human action in itself, if it affects other people becomes intrinsically political. If only because of the butterfly wing effect. Somewhere down the line, by virtue of your action, the by-product will be framed in a political context. This has probably always been the case. The only difference now is technology, and in particular social media has made those individual human actions more.... known... and therefore more susceptible to a political reaction down the line

Great post brother, sorry I missed this! I agree, everything is made political, and I don’t know why, really. Maybe the ego? As in, people will lead with their pronouns and such, or people are certainly more motivated than they used to be to insert their political judgements into everything. I recently my my young Italian friends and she described something as being “so white”, and not really as a joke.

Same with other people who jump immediately to negative conclusions when they see a Muslim woman in a veil, walking down Grafton Street. The question the legality or right of her being there.

I think because there are so many who are so politicised, it definitely means that everything is political - to them! And since they have preconceptions that are shaped by politics, they can’t help but to segue into political illiteracy and oneupmanship. Illiteracy, I mean, as treating something as political but not examining it from a political perspective, but through the one-eyed lens of the tribe.

In this case then even a blue biro might become a political cause if a white person invented it. Lace curtains might be seen as a flag wave to white colonialism. You know where I’m going with this. Sunday league football, donations to church. Everything gets scraped, and beneath the surface the watcher perceives some political horror show.

Nothing has an innocent explanation anymore..

 

[Federberg]

Two things have changed in recent generations: (1) feminism (2) social media/ technology

Social media has enabled humanity to listen to the unfettered and uncurated musings of the masses. One can only assume that a decent proportion of those views are genuine, non-algorithm inspired, but the rest is just attention seeking noise. It’s one of the great challenges of our time to develop educated filters to discern what is what.

The other aspect, feminism is problematic not because I’m against gender equality, but because society as a whole has not developed the tools to extract value from it yet. Rather genuinely constructive argumentation is often frustrated by HR policing to such an extent that objectivity is squandered and end goals are cast aside in the name of equity political correctness and feelings.

Universities of the past for example might not have approved of the personal morays of academics, but they recognised the value of their work. Now, for the sake of feminised politics valuable insights are hostage to the individual morality of those whose knowledge can advance humanity. Can you imagine if feminism held the sort of sway it does now at the end of WW2? I suspect those Nazi scientists would have had their work product suppressed because they weren’t good people!

For the sake of humanity I hope this over correction is reversed sooner rather than later. Otherwise it doesn’t bode well for civilisation

 

[Kieran]

I’ve seen a lot of reaction to the Bad Bunny halftime show at the Super Bowl, though I haven’t seen the show. I have as much interest in American football as I’m sure Americans have in Gaelic football. But I don’t get the criticism, unless he went full Billy Eilish and said something incoherent, dishonest and woke.

Puerto Rico has a strong tie with America, right? There’s a lot of Spanish speakers in America, why not have one halftime show that appeals to them? If you didn’t understand what he’s singing, well they could get Bob Dylan on next year and you might understand even less.

“Mumble mumble, eeeuuuUUGGHHH, mm mmmh…”

And I love Bob as much as anyone, he’s fabulous live. Just don’t expect to recognise the songs the way you thought you would.

But the typically disheartening thing about this halftime performance is how political it is, and yet again in the most predictably tribal way. Leftists are gushing, right wingers are palpitating in a condition of high dudgeon. There’s no middle ground. The organisers even could be blamed for making a political statement - but even me thinking that means I’m legitimising the conceit that “everything is political.”

Perhaps they thought as I originally stated, that it’s a good idea to represent other sides of American life by including its long time territory?

 

[Moxie]

I’ve seen a lot of reaction to the Bad Bunny halftime show at the Super Bowl, though I haven’t seen the show. I have as much interest in American football as I’m sure Americans have in Gaelic football. But I don’t get the criticism, unless he went full Billy Eilish and said something incoherent, dishonest and woke.

Puerto Rico has a strong tie with America, right? There’s a lot of Spanish speakers in America, why not have one halftime show that appeals to them? If you didn’t understand what he’s singing, well they could get Bob Dylan on next year and you might understand even less.

“Mumble mumble, eeeuuuUUGGHHH, mm mmmh…”

And I love Bob as much as anyone, he’s fabulous live. Just don’t expect to recognise the songs the way you thought you would.

But the typically disheartening thing about this halftime performance is how political it is, and yet again in the most predictably tribal way. Leftists are gushing, right wingers are palpitating in a condition of high dudgeon. There’s no middle ground. The organisers even could be blamed for making a political statement - but even me thinking that means I’m legitimising the conceit that “everything is political.”

Perhaps they thought as I originally stated, that it’s a good idea to represent other sides of American life by including its long time territory?

I love your point that people shouldn't complain that they couldn't understand Bad Bunny, and comparing it to Bob Dylan. Spot on! How many songs in English do we get wrong all the time, or simply don't understand?

The people that run the NFL are far from "woke," so I don't think choosing Bad Bunny was "political," on their part. The general assumption is that, at most, they're interested in making their brand more international. But let's face it: Bad Bunny is huge! He just won the Grammy for album of the year the week before the Super Bowl. So don't blame the organizers.

It was Trump that really politicized it. He vowed to skip it, and bashed the choice of Bad Bunny. Did you know that Turning Point USA (Charlie Kirk's foundation) organized an alternative Super Bowl halftime show? (Kid Rock, no surprise.) Want to keep dividing a country on a day when almost everyone comes together and does one thing, even if you don't like sports? We hold, or go to, Super Bowl parties, eat wings and guacamole and chili and yummy junky food and drink beer and margaritas, and drop dollars into friendly betting pools. We critique the ads, and the half time show.

Personally, I like Bad Bunny. I like Latin music. Do I think everyone my age loved that half time so much because they're Bad Bunny fans? I think he got a lot of love from older Democrats just because it pissed off the Republicans so much. For most people, Bad Bunny is just the most popular singer in the US right now, and it was a fun show. Best one ever? No. But the Republicans I know, and those around the internet, flipped out on hating it, and objecting to it being in Spanish, specifically because "nobody" could understand it. And also, likely, because Trump told them to.

To your question, not everything has to be political, but it can certainly be made to seem political. This one, to me, is the equivalent of "ketchup is Republican and mustard is Democrat." (I didn't make that up.)

 

[Kieran]

I love your point that people shouldn't complain that they couldn't understand Bad Bunny, and comparing it to Bob Dylan. Spot on! How many songs in English do we get wrong all the time, or simply don't understand?

The people that run the NFL are far from "woke," so I don't think choosing Bad Bunny was "political," on their part. The general assumption is that, at most, they're interested in making their brand more international. But let's face it: Bad Bunny is huge! He just won the Grammy for album of the year the week before the Super Bowl. So don't blame the organizers.

It was Trump that really politicized it. He vowed to skip it, and bashed the choice of Bad Bunny. Did you know that Turning Point USA (Charlie Kirk's foundation) organized an alternative Super Bowl halftime show? (Kid Rock, no surprise.) Want to keep dividing a country on a day when almost everyone comes together and does one thing, even if you don't like sports? We hold, or go to, Super Bowl parties, eat wings and guacamole and chili and yummy junky food and drink beer and margaritas, and drop dollars into friendly betting pools. We critique the ads, and the half time show.

Personally, I like Bad Bunny. I like Latin music. Do I think everyone my age loved that half time so much because they're Bad Bunny fans? I think he got a lot of love from older Democrats just because it pissed off the Republicans so much. For most people, Bad Bunny is just the most popular singer in the US right now, and it was a fun show. Best one ever? No. But the Republicans I know, and those around the internet, flipped out on hating it, and objecting to it being in Spanish, specifically because "nobody" could understand it. And also, likely, because Trump told them to.

To your question, not everything has to be political, but it can certainly be made to seem political. This one, to me, is the equivalent of "ketchup is Republican and mustard is Democrat." (I didn't make that up.)

The divisiveness is both sides, let's be frank, your side freak out very violently over the most imaginary things but I agree, this one was a political reaction from the right, possibly because they thought of it as a political moment from the left, when really it was just another moment in America, really...

 

[Moxie]

The divisiveness is both sides, let's be frank, your side freak out very violently over the most imaginary things but I agree, this one was a political reaction from the right, possibly because they thought of it as a political moment from the left, when really it was just another moment in America, really...

We were talking about a specific incident, though, which you brought up, and the right didn't react because they thought it was a "political moment from the left." As I said, there is no way the NFL did it to shove anything up the nose of the right, or Trump, or to score "wokeness" points. The right purely went after the fact that the halftime show of their "all-American party" would be in Spanish. Clearly they had time to plan an alternative one. It was pretty racist, let's face it.

I will admit I was pretty surprised when they announced the choice. Interesting that one of the few large entities not afraid of pissing of Trump is the NFL.

 

[Murat B.]

Pages could be written on this but I just want to talk about movies. One of my true joys in life. Not anymore. I used to catch a movie once a month at the theaters. Now I go maybe once every 2 years and that is after really looking into it. I watch a movie to be entertained. Period. I don't want to be talked down, virtue signalled or "educated". Political movies is one thing. I get that. But a regular action movie, a love story or a comedy , all of those movies have a moment in them where I groan loudly and palm my face. Same with the TV shows, especially Netflix stuff.
I was watching Gladiator II the other day. General Acacius comes home after a long battle, the wife Lucilla greets him and says " Let me feed you " And here I am thinking there is no way a white woman with a septum ring wrote that line ! I know it is sad to think that but here we are.

 

[Moxie]

Pages could be written on this but I just want to talk about movies. One of my true joys in life. Not anymore. I used to catch a movie once a month at the theaters. Now I go maybe once every 2 years and that is after really looking into it. I watch a movie to be entertained. Period. I don't want to be talked down, virtue signalled or "educated". Political movies is one thing. I get that. But a regular action movie, a love story or a comedy , all of those movies have a moment in them where I groan loudly and palm my face. Same with the TV shows, especially Netflix stuff.
I was watching Gladiator II the other day. General Acacius comes home after a long battle, the wife Lucilla greets him and says " Let me feed you " And here I am thinking there is no way a white woman with a septum ring wrote that line ! I know it is sad to think that but here we are.

But what you're saying about Gladiator is what you read into it, not the message of the movie, right? What's your complaint about entertainment films, and how you see them changed? Is it the films, or is it you?