Edberg v Becker - Who had the better career?

[britbox]

A retro thread for tennis fans of a certain age. Who had the better career - Edberg or Becker?

Let's drill down to some basic stats.

Major Titles (Singles):

6 - Edberg (2 Wimbledon, 2 Australian, 2 US Open)
6 - Becker (3 Wimbledon, 2 Australian, 1 US Open)

Other GS Finals (Losses) - Edberg (5 - 1 French, 1 Wimbledon, 3 Australian), Becker (4 - All Wimbledon)

Olympic Titles Singles
Edberg - 1
Becker - 0

Weeks at #1
Edberg - 72
Becker - 12

Year End #1
Edberg - 2 (90,91)
Becker - 0

Career Titles
Edberg - 41
Becker - 48

Career %:
Edberg - 801–270 (74.8%)
Becker - 713–214 (76.9%)

YEC:
Edberg - 1 (1989)
Becker - 3 (1988,1992,1995)

Doubles

Highest Ranking:
Edberg - #1
Becker - #6

GS Doubles Titles
Edberg - 3
Becker - 0

Davis Cups
Edberg - 4 with Sweden - 1984, 1985, 1987, 1994
Becker - 2 with Germany - 1988,1989

H2H
Becker 25 Edberg 10 (All matches)
GS Matches: Edberg 3 Becker 1 (3 Wimbledon Finals, 1 French Open Semi)
5 set Matches: Edberg 2 Becker 1
GS Matches + YEC: Edberg 4 Becker 1

Juniors:
Edberg - Junior Grand Slam (All 4 majors 1983)
Becker - 0

 

[britbox]

If @El Dude has some supplementary ELO data that would be useful.

 

[britbox]

H2H vs some Peers

Edberg

v Lendl 14-13
v McEnroe 6-7
v Wilander 9-11
v Sampras 6-8
v Cash 8-2
v Agassi 3-6
v Muster 10-0

Becker

v Lendl 10-11
v McEnroe 8-2
v Wilander 7-3
v Sampras 7-12
v Cash 3-1
v Agassi 4-10
v Muster 2-1

 

[britbox]

Not 100% sure on the accuracy of all the stats - mentally I had Edberg with 42 titles, not the 41 Wiki gave me. Maybe it's the Mandela Effect.

 

[Kieran]

I kind of give the nod to Stefan just simply because he seemed more consistent, more steady. Boris was better at the higher end, at his best he was a tennis giant comparable to anyone, but he wasn’t always that man. He seems to have been screwed up by his early breakthrough, but to me he was the much greater, if we compared them on their very best day. I was surprised he lost those two finals to Stefan at Wimbledon. I was also surprised he lost to Stich and Doohan. But that’s his Achilles heel, he wasn’t as hungry or consistent as the very greatest players were.

So Stefan would be the one I’d bet on now, in hindsight. He was more reliable..

 

[britbox]

I kind of give the nod to Stefan just simply because he seemed more consistent, more steady. Boris was better at the higher end, at his best he was a tennis giant comparable to anyone, but he wasn’t always that man. He seems to have been screwed up by his early breakthrough, but to me he was the much greater, if we compared them on their very best day. I was surprised he lost those two finals to Stefan at Wimbledon. I was also surprised he lost to Stich and Doohan. But that’s his Achilles heel, he wasn’t as hungry or consistent as the very greatest players were.

So Stefan would be the one I’d bet on now, in hindsight. He was more reliable..

Not sure about that mate. I don't think any version of Becker would have lived with the Edberg who destroyed Courier in the US Open Final. Courier even said that he had no idea Edberg was capable of reaching that level. It was like a geometry class on a tennis court. Maybe Edberg's A+ game > Becker, but Becker's A game > Edberg.

I would say Becker had a bigger impact on tennis generally. He rapidly accelerated the power game that guys like Lendl were already ushering in.

 

[Kieran]

Not sure about that mate. I don't think any version of Becker would have lived with the Edberg who destroyed Courier in the US Open Final. Courier even said that he had no idea Edberg was capable of reaching that level. It was like a geometry class on a tennis court. Maybe Edberg's A+ game > Becker, but Becker's A game > Edberg.

I would say Becker had a bigger impact on tennis generally. He rapidly accelerated the power game that guys like Lendl were already ushering in.

Difficult to say, regarding the Courier match. Saw Boris win some big ones against the default-setting of the time, Ivan Lendl. But Boris didn't bring that swagger everywhere. He could be tamed. Stefan never failed to show up doing his best, where Boris sometimes seemed weighed down by expectations..

 

[El Dude]

For @britbox :

Peak Elo (Ultimate Tennis Statistics):
2419 Becker (11th Open Era)
2370 Edberg (18th Open Era)

Becker's peak ELO is higher than Sampras, while Edberg's is almost exactly the same as Agassi (2376) and Wilander (2371).

Jeff Sackman of Tennis Abstract uses a different system that yields lower numbers, but has Becker at 2320 and Edberg significantly lower at 2239. Sackman's "Tennis 128" list--greatest players of last century) has Becker 32nd, Edberg 40th...including female players.


Here's a visual reference of what their careers look like:

Green are titles, purple are runner's up, and grey are all other good results that earn points in my PEP system.

I like using charts like this because they give a visual representation, which may actually give us a better sense of their careers. The first thing I notice is that Edberg's peak is more compact - he won Slams over an eight-year period, whereas Becker's Slams were a bit more spread out: over twelve seasons.

I think you could say that Edberg was a bit better in his prime, a more consistently great player in 1987-92, but Becker had a bit better overall career. Edberg had a better overall career through 1992 then he faded out, while Becker continued and then had a bit of a spike towards the end. In other words, if both had returned after 1992, I'd give Edberg the edge, but Becker added the Slam and a few big titles.

BTW, Edberg's Olympic Gold was pretty weak...that tournament was really no deeper than an ATP 250.

 

[Moxie]

Since you're asking career, in their time, I'd say Edberg. I take @britbox's point about Becker's impact on the power game, going forward, though. Obviously, they're really close, so doesn't it come down to feels? I always liked Edberg's game more.

 

[Kieran]

I think Becker could have been a double digit slam champ if he’d played his best throughout. He suffered. But he was staggeringly overpowering and adventurous at his best. I thought he’d overtake Borg when he defended his first Wimbledon title, but the life of a prodigy wasn’t the most protected life he could have had..

 

[Federberg]

Not sure about that mate. I don't think any version of Becker would have lived with the Edberg who destroyed Courier in the US Open Final. Courier even said that he had no idea Edberg was capable of reaching that level. It was like a geometry class on a tennis court. Maybe Edberg's A+ game > Becker, but Becker's A game > Edberg.

I would say Becker had a bigger impact on tennis generally. He rapidly accelerated the power game that guys like Lendl were already ushering in.

spot on mate. No surprise from me given my username

I think in terms of talent, one might give the nod to Boris, but Edberg had ice in his veins and he was able to reach levels that I don't think Boris could. And to me, that was more because of will than anything.

Until the advent of the Big 3, I don't think I've ever seen a set as dominating as... I believe it was the 1st set of the last Wimbledon final they played. It was the most complete serve and volley performance I've seen to date. His speed and coverage of the court was absolutely on point.

It took Wimbledon 2008 for me to feel the same sort of pain I felt when Stefan lost the semi-final against Stich. He was the better player in that match, didn't even look close to losing a set, but lost 3 tie-breaks. And what was worse... in each tie-break there was a lucky net cord or some such that cost Stefan. I was depressed for days! Just writing this, the emotions come back again. I was PISSED!

 

[Fiero425]

H2H vs some Peers

Edberg

v Lendl 14-13
v McEnroe 6-7
v Wilander 9-11
v Sampras 6-8
v Cash 8-2
v Agassi 3-6
v Muster 10-0

Becker

v Lendl 10-11
v McEnroe 8-2
v Wilander 7-3
v Sampras 7-12
v Cash 3-1
v Agassi 4-10
v Muster 2-1

Lendl admitted in an interview that no one gave him more heartburn than Stefan Edberg! Ivan knew he had no chance to defeat him on grass!

 

[Fiero425]

I kind of give the nod to Stefan just simply because he seemed more consistent, more steady. Boris was better at the higher end, at his best he was a tennis giant comparable to anyone, but he wasn’t always that man. He seems to have been screwed up by his early breakthrough, but to me he was the much greater, if we compared them on their very best day. I was surprised he lost those two finals to Stefan at Wimbledon. I was also surprised he lost to Stich and Doohan. But that’s his Achilles heel, he wasn’t as hungry or consistent as the very greatest players were.

So Stefan would be the one I’d bet on now, in hindsight. He was more reliable..

I also give the nod to Edberg b/c he was more consistent; Becker much too much "up & down" depending on the event, situation, & sometimes the player! He admitted to playing mindgames w/ his opponents; esp. Stefan! He needed it b/c his game & level were very inconsistent! One day he's a world beater, taking out Agassi in 5 sets in a Davis Cup tie, then the next he's dropping a match to some nobody in an early Rd. of a small event! Agassi for some reason had an advantage over Boris for the most part, but given an event, Becker would rise to the occasion like their Wimbledon encounter in '95!

 

[Moxie]

spot on mate. No surprise from me given my username

I never thought of that! Doh!

 

[britbox]

I also give the nod to Edberg b/c he was more consistent; Becker much too much "up & down" depending on the event, situation, & sometimes the player! He admitted to playing mindgames w/ his opponents; esp. Stefan! He needed it b/c his game & level were very inconsistent! One day he's a world beater, taking out Agassi in 5 sets in a Davis Cup tie, then the next he's dropping a match to some nobody in an early Rd. of a small event! Agassi for some reason had an advantage over Boris for the most part, but given an event, Becker would rise to the occasion like their Wimbledon encounter in '95!

I recall Agassi saying in an interview that he could read Becker's serve by a facial tic - something to do with how Becker poked out his tongue! Thus he nullified Becker's biggest weapon and amplified his own (ROS).

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/undertheinfluence/andre-agassi-beat-boris-becker-by-studying-his-tongue-1.7446007

 

[britbox]

Since you're asking career, in their time, I'd say Edberg. I take @britbox's point about Becker's impact on the power game, going forward, though. Obviously, they're really close, so doesn't it come down to feels? I always liked Edberg's game more.

Yeah, I loved Edberg's game - he was my favourite player - and a class act all around.

 

[britbox]

spot on mate. No surprise from me given my username

I think in terms of talent, one might give the nod to Boris, but Edberg had ice in his veins and he was able to reach levels that I don't think Boris could. And to me, that was more because of will than anything.

Until the advent of the Big 3, I don't think I've ever seen a set as dominating as... I believe it was the 1st set of the last Wimbledon final they played. It was the most complete serve and volley performance I've seen to date. His speed and coverage of the court was absolutely on point.

It took Wimbledon 2008 for me to feel the same sort of pain I felt when Stefan lost the semi-final against Stich. He was the better player in that match, didn't even look close to losing a set, but lost 3 tie-breaks. And what was worse... in each tie-break there was a lucky net cord or some such that cost Stefan. I was depressed for days! Just writing this, the emotions come back again. I was PISSED!

Yeah, that Stich match was an absolute sickener. I watched it live too. The Chang French Open final wasn't too far behind. Edberg would have had a career slam if he'd seen that one out.

 

[Federberg]

Yeah, that Stich match was an absolute sickener. I watched it live too. The Chang French Open final wasn't too far behind. Edberg would have had a career slam if he'd seen that one out.

ugh! I blanked that one out! That was painful too

 

[Kieran]

I recall Agassi saying in an interview that he could read Becker's serve by a facial tic - something to do with how Becker poked out his tongue! Thus he nullified Becker's biggest weapon and amplified his own (ROS).

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/undertheinfluence/andre-agassi-beat-boris-becker-by-studying-his-tongue-1.7446007

And that’s right, but I wonder if Agassi tried too hard to repeat the trick by reading the ultimate lolling tongue guy, Sampras, and that’s why the Pistol beat him so often..

 

[britbox]

And that’s right, but I wonder if Agassi tried too hard to repeat the trick by reading the ultimate lolling tongue guy, Sampras, and that’s why the Pistol beat him so often..

Agassi was generally licked by the Pistol.