US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

lol! You're too funny. Both @britbox and I have told you that the concern is how the State... in the Uk is responding to immigration stresses. Whether it's allocating resources to immigrants fresh off the Channel boats in preference to tax payers, or trying to hide the facts about grooming gangs. We've said it over and over again.

You say that we should be concerned in the same proportion to who is committing the crime. Well here's the thing, the white dudes are being prosecuted and if they're found guilty they go to jail. The grooming gangs? They're trying to pretend it's not happening. Do you get it now??

You guys barely say anything, and act as if I'm familiar with these stories. If you know about this grooming gangs, than how is it not being dealt with by the State? Why don't you send one link to a story, so that I can see that?

 

[Federberg]

You guys barely say anything, and act as if I'm familiar with these stories. If you know about this grooming gangs, than how is it not being dealt with by the State? Why don't you send one link to a story, so that I can see that?

I haven't watched this particular documentary, but knowing GBNews it's probably more accurately reported than anything one would see on the MSM...

 

[Moxie]

I haven't watched this particular documentary, but knowing GBNews it's probably more accurately reported than anything one would see on the MSM...

While I appreciate the thought, if you haven't watched it, I'm not sure if that's what I was asking for. Plus, 45 minutes?! I'd like to know what YOU and @britbox are reading that brings you to your opinions on the subject. Something that tells me what's happening, and something that explains how the British government is treating immigrants differently. How they've ignored these blatant sexual predators that everyone seems to know about there. I can deal with a few links.

 

[britbox]

While I appreciate the thought, if you haven't watched it, I'm not sure if that's what I was asking for. Plus, 45 minutes?! I'd like to know what YOU and @britbox are reading that brings you to your opinions on the subject. Something that tells me what's happening, and something that explains how the British government is treating immigrants differently. How they've ignored these blatant sexual predators that everyone seems to know about there. I can deal with a few links.

I'm way beyond putting a case load of docs together for you based on past experience.

But here is a taster and I've picked it from one of your approved media channels, so you should be comfortable opening it.

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/uk-child-sexual-exploitation

This is just one small town - but this has also happened in other towns. I don't think we're particularly singling out this demographic as the source of all this crime, rather how they have been dealt with by authorities (or not dealt with) - two tier justice. I'd imagine most upstanding muslims would also abhor this behaviour.

 

[Moxie]

I'm way beyond putting a case load of docs together for you based on past experience.

But here is a taster and I've picked it from one of your approved media channels, so you should be comfortable opening it.

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/uk-child-sexual-exploitation

This is just one small town - but this has also happened in other towns. I don't think we're particularly singling out this demographic as the source of all this crime, rather how they have been dealt with by authorities (or not dealt with) - two tier justice. I'd imagine most upstanding muslims would also abhor this behaviour.

That was helpful. And it's shocking. Dramatic failure on the part of social services.

This struck me, and made sense of you guys complaining about over-blown social "correctness." While explaining the fear of retribution from the left, and from the right.

"Social counselors often took a hands-off approach to the cases for fear of being branded as racists or stoking a right-wing backlash in the city.

“Several (counselors) interviewed believed that by opening up these issues they could be ‘giving oxygen’ to racist perspectives that might in turn attract extremist political groups and threaten community cohesion. To some extent this concern was valid, with the apparent targeting of the town by groups such as the English Defence League,” the report says."

Something is clearly broken in the system in the UK, if those charged with protecting children can't stand up to outside forces to do it.

 

[Federberg]

That was helpful. And it's shocking. Dramatic failure on the part of social services.

This struck me, and made sense of you guys complaining about over-blown social "correctness." While explaining the fear of retribution from the left, and from the right.

"Social counselors often took a hands-off approach to the cases for fear of being branded as racists or stoking a right-wing backlash in the city.

“Several (counselors) interviewed believed that by opening up these issues they could be ‘giving oxygen’ to racist perspectives that might in turn attract extremist political groups and threaten community cohesion. To some extent this concern was valid, with the apparent targeting of the town by groups such as the English Defence League,” the report says."

Something is clearly broken in the system in the UK, if those charged with protecting children can't stand up to outside forces to do it.

you go that right. Britain has been broken since Brexit. That's just a fact. France is possibly in an even worse state. The fiscal positions of both countries are horrific.. There's always been a national bargain in the UK surrounding the NHS, but that once proud institution is on its legs. It's hard to envision a way out of it. We need another Margaret Thatcher who comes in and just doesn't give a shit. Breaks us out of the persistent decline. With France the situation is theoretically simpler... there are so many things they can do to fix the fiscal problems, the state is far far too big. But the political will, particularly because folks will get on the streets and protest at the drop of a hat, makes it really tricky. Be glad for America that things are no where near as bad... yet

 

[Moxie]

you go that right. Britain has been broken since Brexit. That's just a fact. France is possibly in an even worse state. The fiscal positions of both countries are horrific.. There's always been a national bargain in the UK surrounding the NHS, but that once proud institution is on its legs. It's hard to envision a way out of it. We need another Margaret Thatcher who comes in and just doesn't give a shit. Breaks us out of the persistent decline. With France the situation is theoretically simpler... there are so many things they can do to fix the fiscal problems, the state is far far too big. But the political will, particularly because folks will get on the streets and protest at the drop of a hat, makes it really tricky. Be glad for America that things are no where near as bad... yet

Because I can't remember, do you think the UK shouldn't have done the Brexit?

France is in a political muddle internally that they can't seem to get out of. They have far-right and far-left, and no one is interested in the middle. Should Macron stand down? But then where are they left? I guess see where the open vote goes.

And yet, my dollar power to the euro is in the toilet, I notice, since I'm going to Italy on Wed. Thanks, Donald.

 

[Moxie]

More significantly for the US, Trump is still trying to occupy US cities with the National Guard. Declaring them cities with rampant crime. Even though their crime rates are down. And courts keep telling him he can't. And he does it anyway. Am I the only one who finds this bad for democracy?

 

[britbox]

More significantly for the US, Trump is still trying to occupy US cities with the National Guard. Declaring them cities with rampant crime. Even though their crime rates are down. And courts keep telling him he can't. And he does it anyway. Am I the only one who finds this bad for democracy?

Installing a form of martial law upon it's own citizens is not good for any recognised government that wishes to rule by consent.

 

[Federberg]

More significantly for the US, Trump is still trying to occupy US cities with the National Guard. Declaring them cities with rampant crime. Even though their crime rates are down. And courts keep telling him he can't. And he does it anyway. Am I the only one who finds this bad for democracy?

you're not the only one. I believe I already said as much? Trump is Trump, he's trying to set the scene for the mid-terms. I just don't know what Dems are doing to create a counter-narrative. Here's something along those lines that might interest you...

 

[Moxie]

you're not the only one. I believe I already said as much? Trump is Trump, he's trying to set the scene for the mid-terms. I just don't know what Dems are doing to create a counter-narrative. Here's something along those lines that might interest you...

Sure you complained, when he sent the national guard to LA. Then we got distracted. But it keeps going on. Next DC, then Portland, now Chicago.

Appreciate the video, but those guys just repeat themselves a lot. They're trying. They're caring. They're saying that people with a heart aren't going to accept what's going on. But that's about the border, and immigrants, and the poor treatment of them. I gave up about 3/4 of the way in. Did they ever talk about the military going to US cities.

Because, I'm talking about the taking over of US cities via martial law. And seriously concerned about it. It's not really about ICE or immigration or crime. And, it's illegal to use the US military against US citizens for the purposes of crime fighting. Which isn't even what he's doing. It's a show of force, nothing more or less.

 

[Federberg]

well this was interesting...

 

[Federberg]

Sure you complained, when he sent the national guard to LA. Then we got distracted. But it keeps going on. Next DC, then Portland, now Chicago.

Appreciate the video, but those guys just repeat themselves a lot. They're trying. They're caring. They're saying that people with a heart aren't going to accept what's going on. But that's about the border, and immigrants, and the poor treatment of them. I gave up about 3/4 of the way in. Did they ever talk about the military going to US cities.

Because, I'm talking about the taking over of US cities via martial law. And seriously concerned about it. It's not really about ICE or immigration or crime. And, it's illegal to use the US military against US citizens for the purposes of crime fighting. Which isn't even what he's doing. It's a show of force, nothing more or less.

it's up to the people to take action in the mid-terms. It would help if the Dems could become politically competent. I think it's 50-50.. purely because the insipid Dems are providing so little resistance hubris will probably smack Trump and the GOP in the ass...

 

[Kieran]

Sure you complained, when he sent the national guard to LA. Then we got distracted. But it keeps going on. Next DC, then Portland, now Chicago.

Appreciate the video, but those guys just repeat themselves a lot. They're trying. They're caring. They're saying that people with a heart aren't going to accept what's going on. But that's about the border, and immigrants, and the poor treatment of them. I gave up about 3/4 of the way in. Did they ever talk about the military going to US cities.

Because, I'm talking about the taking over of US cities via martial law. And seriously concerned about it. It's not really about ICE or immigration or crime. And, it's illegal to use the US military against US citizens for the purposes of crime fighting. Which isn't even what he's doing. It's a show of force, nothing more or less.

Your cities are violent and your democrat politicians seem ok with that. They encourage it. Now you have the Permanent Activists attacking ICE agents who are trying to claw back ground against illegal aliens that was lost during the open border policy of the previous administration. These people are Fifth Columnists, always disrupting, always standing firmly in favour of madness, and your country’s enemies.

You’re probably going to be surprised at the midterms, it could be that the gains the Republicans are making are going to be like the catchiest tune to ever touch an ear. People want peace, order, sanity. The crazies attacking ICE agents are the same morons who pushed child abuse and race lies.

If you took off the blinkers you’d probably vote red too…

 

[Moxie]

Your cities are violent and your democrat politicians seem ok with that. They encourage it. Now you have the Permanent Activists attacking ICE agents who are trying to claw back ground against illegal aliens that was lost during the open border policy of the previous administration. These people are Fifth Columnists, always disrupting, always standing firmly in favour of madness, and your country’s enemies.

Good lord, where do you get this crap from? You say you don't troll right-wing web info, but these are fully right-wing talking points, and refutable by facts.

Our cities are violent? Have you googled the statistics? Crime is down in cities in the US, in general, in a downward trend since the 90s. Chicago has the lowest murder rate since the 1960s. Trump is using this as an excuse to use the military on its own citizens. You don't find that frightening? Note @britbox's comment above.

I've never taken you for a sap. I think you should do a bit more homework before believing everything you read.

You’re probably going to be surprised at the midterms, it could be that the gains the Republicans are making are going to be like the catchiest tune to ever touch an ear. People want peace, order, sanity. The crazies attacking ICE agents are the same morons who pushed child abuse and race lies.

If you took off the blinkers you’d probably vote red too…

I'm not sure what will happen in the midterms, but I doubt I'll be shocked, either way. Trump just scored a big victory in Gaza, and I hope it works. Mamdani is going to win the mayoral election in NYC, and that could have a negative impact on races elsewhere in the US. Which is why local NY leaders have been withholding their endorsements. It's all complicated right now.

Voting "red" means nothing for me, in the midterms. Even if I did, it wouldn't throw out our local candidates. And the Republican, Sliwa, and the "independent" candidate for me in the upcoming mayoral election are not viable options.

I love you dearly, but focus on what is important. Trump sending troops into his own cities is a seriously bad thing.

 

[Kieran]

Our cities are violent? Have you googled the statistics? Crime is down in cities in the US, in general, in a downward trend since the 90s. Chicago has the lowest murder rate since the 1960s. Trump is using this as an excuse to use the military on its own citizens. You don't find that frightening? Note @britbox's comment above.

Wait, you don’t have the People of the Permanent Revolution attacking ICE agents? Didn’t we discuss this in the context of Charlie Kirk, that his killing was off a different category to somebody attacking a public servant? That an attack on police and government workers is an attack on the state?

And aren’t the Democrats opposed to sending in troops to help these agents do their work?

I'm not sure what will happen in the midterms, but I doubt I'll be shocked, either way. Trump just scored a big victory in Gaza, and I hope it works. Mamdani is going to win the mayoral election in NYC, and that could have a negative impact on races elsewhere in the US.

Trump is unusual in that he seems to genuinely believe that war is a waste of resources, of human life, of opportunities, and I give him credit for this. But if we want to know what Hamas think, we only have to listen to them. They’re quite vocal about their wants.

They are not interested in peace. They want a ceasefire to regroup, merely - as they always have. They want to kill Jews. They want to destroy Israel as a Jewish state. They use their people as human shields and they’ve been explicit about why they think this is a good thing this since their charter in 1988 was published. So Trump will need to understand all this. Hopefully greater influences from the region will come to bear on Hamas but generally they represent the popular view.

I’m not saying this to be contradictory, I agree that Trump is trying to do good here and he’ll want Hamas removed from the region, but this won’t happen until the wealthy states which sponsor Hamas are put in place.

As for Mamdani, the socialist who wants to globalist the Intifada, yes I’m sure you’re right that he’ll win.

Does this not frighten you?

 

[Federberg]

if he pulls it off this view is going to grow and grow...

 

[Moxie]

Wait, you don’t have the People of the Permanent Revolution attacking ICE agents? Didn’t we discuss this in the context of Charlie Kirk, that his killing was off a different category to somebody attacking a public servant? That an attack on police and government workers is an attack on the state?

And aren’t the Democrats opposed to sending in troops to help these agents do their work?

Hold on. You told me my cities are violent, which I disputed. It's Trump's reason for sending troops. Now, rather than address this, you pivot to people, supposedly, attacking ICE agents. So, are our cities violent enough that the local police and law enforcement can't handle them? Or, are they there to protect ICE?

Here is a link to a piece by local news to Portland that disputes DHS characterization of what happened at the ICE facility there. Short read. Video is useful, if it will play in your region. Also short, but locals interviewed also dispute that there is a problem at that ICE facility.

DHS claims around Portland ICE facility protests appear to not reflect reality

Although federal officials claimed there were over 100 protesters, KGW on-scene reports and resident interviews showed otherwise.

www.kgw.com

Also, no amount of googling gets me to anything like a group called "People of the Permanent Revolution," so I'm going to need a reference of some kind.

Trump is unusual in that he seems to genuinely believe that war is a waste of resources, of human life, of opportunities, and I give him credit for this. But if we want to know what Hamas think, we only have to listen to them. They’re quite vocal about their wants.

They are not interested in peace. They want a ceasefire to regroup, merely - as they always have. They want to kill Jews. They want to destroy Israel as a Jewish state. They use their people as human shields and they’ve been explicit about why they think this is a good thing this since their charter in 1988 was published. So Trump will need to understand all this. Hopefully greater influences from the region will come to bear on Hamas but generally they represent the popular view.

I’m not saying this to be contradictory, I agree that Trump is trying to do good here and he’ll want Hamas removed from the region, but this won’t happen until the wealthy states which sponsor Hamas are put in place.

As for Mamdani, the socialist who wants to globalist the Intifada, yes I’m sure you’re right that he’ll win.

Does this not frighten you?

As to the bold above, that is inaccurate. Be more careful about who you read.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5403589-mamdani-globalize-intifada-phrase-reports/

 

[Federberg]

Might be right

 

[Kieran]

Hold on. You told me my cities are violent, which I disputed. It's Trump's reason for sending troops. Now, rather than address this, you pivot to people, supposedly, attacking ICE agents. So, are our cities violent enough that the local police and law enforcement can't handle them? Or, are they there to protect ICE?

You didn’t dispute it, you said violence is down. If it’s down from a high, that can still be high. There’s no acceptable number of gang shootings that means violence isn’ta problem, anywhere.

When you say “supposedly attacking ICE agents” are you really saying “mainly peaceful violent attacks on ICE agents?”

Also, no amount of googling gets me to anything like a group called "People of the Permanent Revolution," so I'm going to need a reference of some kind.

The reference is me, come on, keep up.

You have the worst most stupid “activists” who are plainly against anything and everything that smells of white supremacist cis white male privilege toxic masculinity western colonial oppression of……….whatever fad is in fashion.

They are permanent activists, and they do not care about the issues they say they are against. They simply are AGAINST. Against anything western and making our societies the most free and successful in history.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5403589-mamdani-globalize-intifada-phrase-reports/

Yeah, I watched the video where he hedged his bets. He know what signal that phrase sends, and he refused to condemn it.

And he’s a socialist.

Are you not worried?