How long does it take you to recover from a defeat?

[Moxie]

I did not want to bring that loss up Moxie, ' I have no words' like other Rafa fans had to accept that Rafa was beatable, then like a 'phoenix who rose from the ashes' Rafa found his rebirth' after that loss.

Given the topic, I couldn't not mention it. And if the Fed fans are willing to talk about the 2019 W final, which we know hurt them a lot, I had to go there. I can't rightfully talk about other losses of Rafa's and leave out that one.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Given the topic, I couldn't not mention it. And if the Fed fans are willing to talk about the 2019 W final, which we know hurt them a lot, I had to go there. I can't rightfully talk about other losses of Rafa's and leave out that one.

Agree, that loss was one to bring up, the coward in me didnt want to face it again, though there was a 'silver lining' in 2010 Rafa defeated Soderling in the final in straight sets 64 62 64

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

That was earthshaking. It was like when Buster Douglas beat Tyson. It was bigger than the sport. Especially that Rafa lost to his troll.

Now imagine if Buster Douglas was injured just before he beat Tyson. That's essentially what happened to Grigor against Sinner. Easily one of the worst moments in tennis.

 

[kskate2]

Rafa's straight sets loss to Djokovic in the 2019 AO final
It was the most lopsided final Rafa has played in.
Djokovic played a flawless match, while Rafa struggled with ufe and missed shots.
I can still picture Rafa's facial expressions he was visibly frustrated
Rafa described it as a 'devastating experience and said he has never rewatched the match, I could not force myself to rewatch the match, I dont think I have ever got over the match quite frankly, the score was 63 62 63 it really was a one sided Grand Slam final.

I'm quite sure he got over it as he exorcised some serious demons in the 2020 RG fall edition when he beat Djoke like he stole Maria's ring

 

[kskate2]

Well, I don't think Roger is treated like a blooper reel, but I think your point is that it was amazing that he was there in a first place, with match point against a six-year-younger Novak. And really, they were virtual equals in that match. Roger even had the edge in some sense, but Novak just got in his head and he "blew it" - but against arguably the greatest defender in tennis history. It happens. Roger didn't take home the trophy, but there's really no shame in what he did there.

Truthfully, Djoke had crawled in his head well before 2019. It really started when he blew those USO MP's.

 

[Kieran]

Truthfully, Djoke had crawled in his head well before 2019. It really started when he blew those USO MP's.

That’s another thing I haven’t recovered from, Roger dumping mp’s in the 2011 semi. No offence to Roger but Rafa was favourite to win that final if he played him. Another alternate history timeline eating worms in my brain…

 

[atttomole]

Truthfully, Djoke had crawled in his head well before 2019. It really started when he blew those USO MP's.

But Roger defeated him handily in 2012 at Wimbledon.

 

[atttomole]

That’s another thing I haven’t recovered from, Roger dumping mp’s in the 2011 semi. No offence to Roger but Rafa was favourite to win that final if he played him. Another alternate history timeline eating worms in my brain…

I felt the same at the FO in 2011. Roger played like a man possessed to eliminate Djokovic, fully knowing he wasn’t going to beat Rafa in the final. Djokovic was a clear favorite to win the FO in 2011 against Rafa.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

The one that really hurts is the injury at the 2020 Australian Open. I'd even argue that was worse than the 2019 Wimbledon final. Roger was coming off a win against Novak at the 2019 ATP Finals. Roger knew he could beat Novak.

I will always wonder what if Roger was healthy for the 2020 AO semifinal, especially after Novak was shaky against Thiem in the final.

 

[Moxie]

I felt the same at the FO in 2011. Roger played like a man possessed to eliminate Djokovic, fully knowing he wasn’t going to beat Rafa in the final. Djokovic was a clear favorite to win the FO in 2011 against Rafa.

I have said this on these forums before, but maybe before your time, so some will forgive me if I repeat myself.

Roger is a great champion, so he backed himself in both of those matches. As he should have. Remember he broke Novak's win-streak when he beat him in that SF. And he played Rafa pretty well in that final. It might have gone 5.

You say that "Djokovic was a clear favorite" to win the FO that year. No, but you probably mean if he'd made the final. I don't even think that is true. Rafa was basically the favorite every year he played, until the last, I suppose. But here is what people forget about those SFs, and that final, when they make an extravagant comment such as yours: in order for Novak to have made that final, he'd have had to have won that TB on Friday night, which he lost, giving Roger the win, in 4. That TB was played in the last of the light of that day. So, if Novak has won that TB, they'd have had to have come back the next day to finish the match. And, at that time, there was no TB in a 5th set at RG. So that set could have gone easily an hour or more, given how they were playing that match. Meaning that, whoever won that 5th set was going to have to face Nadal the next day with less-than perfect preparation. Nadal had been resting since early on Friday, after a fairly straightforward match with Murray. On top of that, Djokovic didn't beat Nadal the next year when he did meet him in the final, and it took him 4 more years to finally beat Nadal at RG, so it's hard to say he would have in 2011, had he beaten Roger in the SFs.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

So, if Novak has won that TB, they'd have had to have come back the next day to finish the match. And, at that time, there was no TB in a 5th set at RG. So that set could have gone easily an hour or more, given how they were playing that match. Meaning that, whoever won that 5th set was going to have to face Nadal the next day with less-than perfect preparation. Nadal had been resting since early on Friday, after a fairly straightforward match with Murray.

That scenario played out in 2015. Novak was unable to finish the semifinal against Murray in sets 3 and 4, and had to play a 5th set on Saturday. I believe that played a role in Novak's loss to Wawrinka in the 2015 French Open final.

 

[Moxie]

That scenario played out in 2015. Novak was unable to finish the semifinal against Murray in sets 3 and 4, and had to play a 5th set on Saturday. I believe that played a role in Novak's loss to Wawrinka in the 2015 French Open final.

So you confirm my point.

 

[atttomole]

I have said this on these forums before, but maybe before your time, so some will forgive me if I repeat myself.

Roger is a great champion, so he backed himself in both of those matches. As he should have. Remember he broke Novak's win-streak when he beat him in that SF. And he played Rafa pretty well in that final. It might have gone 5.

You say that "Djokovic was a clear favorite" to win the FO that year. No, but you probably mean if he'd made the final. I don't even think that is true. Rafa was basically the favorite every year he played, until the last, I suppose. But here is what people forget about those SFs, and that final, when they make an extravagant comment such as yours: in order for Novak to have made that final, he'd have had to have won that TB on Friday night, which he lost, giving Roger the win, in 4. That TB was played in the last of the light of that day. So, if Novak has won that TB, they'd have had to have come back the next day to finish the match. And, at that time, there was no TB in a 5th set at RG. So that set could have gone easily an hour or more, given how they were playing that match. Meaning that, whoever won that 5th set was going to have to face Nadal the next day with less-than perfect preparation. Nadal had been resting since early on Friday, after a fairly straightforward match with Murray. On top of that, Djokovic didn't beat Nadal the next year when he did meet him in the final, and it took him 4 more years to finally beat Nadal at RG, so it's hard to say he would have in 2011, had he beaten Roger in the SFs.

We are speculating about matches that didn’t occur.

Djokovic was running rings around Nadal during that period of the tennis season. I don’t think Nadal was looking forward to playing Djokovic. I think Djokovic was winning if they met in the final. Nadal could still have won against Djokovic given that it was his home turf. All speculation!!

Kieran thinks Nadal would have won the 2011 US Open had Federer had converted the match points against Djokovic. I thought so too, given Nadal’s psychological advantage over Federer. But Federer could have won too if they had met because he had won it 5 times before. Speculation!!

It could be that Kieran speculates better than me.

 

[Moxie]

We are speculating about matches that didn’t occur.

Djokovic was running rings around Nadal during that period of the tennis season. I don’t think Nadal was looking forward to playing Djokovic. I think Djokovic was winning if they met in the final. Nadal could still have won against Djokovic given that it was his home turf. All speculation!!

Kieran thinks Nadal would have won the 2011 US Open had Federer had converted the match points against Djokovic. I thought so too, given Nadal’s psychological advantage over Federer. But Federer could have won too if they had met because he had won it 5 times before. Speculation!!

It could be that Kieran speculates better than me.

I understand you're both speculating. We like to do that around here. Djokovic had just beaten Nadal 4 finals in a row, including 2 on clay, so, yes, he was getting into Rafa's head and his game. I'm not saying that Novak couldn't have won that final, if he'd gotten there. He could have. But I think it's wrong to say, as you did, that Novak was the "clear" favorite to beat Nadal. OK, he was the first one to look like he had a real chance since at least 2008, but that's why I reminded you that there was a reality to that weekend which would have lowered Novak's odds considerably. I personally don't think betting odds would have been against Nadal, anyway, but given that Novak would have had to play a highly competitive 5th set v. Federer on the Saturday, with no final set tiebreak, his odds in b o 5 v Nadal would have gone way down.

Like Kieran, I've always been disappointed that Roger missed his chance at the 2011 USO final v Nadal. As you say, even you think Nadal would have won it, given the state of the rivalry at that time, and I'd add, Federer's Majors record in 2011, but we'll never know for sure. Of course it's speculation. But a more educated guess can be made if we look at the facts in play at the moment, not just records on paper, or recent momentum.