Build Your Perfect Player

El Dude

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This is a question often asked of tennis players: build your perfect player out of various components (serve, return, slice, etc). There are no rules - be as granular as you want, or keep it simple. I think we've probably done this here, but not in awhile.

I'll try to build mine in a reply.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Okay I am watching Fonseca match but I will have a go,

Serve Sampras ( I will get extra brownie points from my hubby for selecting Pete )
Bhand Novak
Fhand Rafa
Volley John McEnroe
Slice Federer
Return Toss up between Agassi and Novak, Novak
Movement Federer, he just glided around the court and made tennis look soo easy when it is not
Mental Rafa
 

El Dude

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I started to write mine then lost it. I basically agree with yours, Margaret, though with a couple caveats:

I'm giving forehand to both Rafa and Roger. Rafa for cross-court, Roger for inside out. Honorable mention to Del Potro.

I'll give the edge to Novak for return. Just devastating. Might be recency bias, though.

Movement...I hear you about Roger, but actually might give that to Carlos. The kid is just so fast. Rafa on clay has to be mentioned. So maybe a three-way tie.

I'd also add finesse/skills to Roger. I still maintain that from a purely skills perspective, there is no one who could do as much with a tennis racket. Really, if Roger had Rafa' mental toughness and tactical mind, he might have been the perfect player - or at least as close as you could come with taking one player and adding one or two things. Mac with wooden rackets.

How about court presence? I'm going with Borg. I mean, he needs something.

Entertainment value? McEnroe or Kyrgios. Or Roger, for being so beautiful to watch.

Definitely agree on Pete's serve - perhaps especially his second. I know the big guys like Karlovic, Isner and Raonic served more aces, but in terms of what you could do with it, placement and variation, and the underrated but important how the serve set up the rest of the point, overall it is Pete, with Roger getting an honorable mention. Roger's serve is almost underrated at this point because it wasn't mostly about the aces, but the variation and impossibility to read, and how he set up the rest of the point with his serve.

I'd also add tactical to Rafa, in addition to mental toughness. His tennis IQ was just off the charts. I also think he deserves mention for humility: the gap between his greatness and lack of attitude/arrogance/entitlement is astonishing.

I want to fit Andy Murray in there somewhere - perhaps tenacity? Maintaining being the clear fourth best player in the Big Three era for almost a decade is actually incredibly impressive. There were guys who had flashes of passing him--Del Potro, Wawrinka, even Soderling for a flash--but Murray...abided.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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I started to write mine then lost it. I basically agree with yours, Margaret, though with a couple caveats:

I'm giving forehand to both Rafa and Roger. Rafa for cross-court, Roger for inside out. Honorable mention to Del Potro.

I'll give the edge to Novak for return. Just devastating. Might be recency bias, though.

Movement...I hear you about Roger, but actually might give that to Carlos. The kid is just so fast. Rafa on clay has to be mentioned. So maybe a three-way tie.

I'd also add finesse/skills to Roger. I still maintain that from a purely skills perspective, there is no one who could do as much with a tennis racket. Really, if Roger had Rafa' mental toughness and tactical mind, he might have been the perfect player - or at least as close as you could come with taking one player and adding one or two things. Mac with wooden rackets.

How about court presence? I'm going with Borg. I mean, he needs something.

Entertainment value? McEnroe or Kyrgios. Or Roger, for being so beautiful to watch.

Definitely agree on Pete's serve - perhaps especially his second. I know the big guys like Karlovic, Isner and Raonic served more aces, but in terms of what you could do with it, placement and variation, and the underrated but important how the serve set up the rest of the point, overall it is Pete, with Roger getting an honorable mention. Roger's serve is almost underrated at this point because it wasn't mostly about the aces, but the variation and impossibility to read, and how he set up the rest of the point with his serve.

I'd also add tactical to Rafa, in addition to mental toughness. His tennis IQ was just off the charts. I also think he deserves mention for humility: the gap between his greatness and lack of attitude/arrogance/entitlement is astonishing.

I want to fit Andy Murray in there somewhere - perhaps tenacity? Maintaining being the clear fourth best player in the Big Three era for almost a decade is actually incredibly impressive. There were guys who had flashes of passing him--Del Potro, Wawrinka, even Soderling for a flash--but Murray...abided.
Being a big Borg fan, agree with you, his court presence was second to none.

Roger Federer, and I have seen him play live many times over the years, he was just a player built to player tennis, agree 100% with your thoughts, as I mentioned he made tennis look soo easy when it isnt.
 
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El Dude

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I'd also mention Kyrgios for serve. He was almost as booming as Isner/Raonic/Karlovic, with some of Pete's control. His serve, when he got into a groove, was unplayable.

But I'd still take Pete's--or Roger's--serve for my perfect player, because of consistency.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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I'd also mention Kyrgios for serve. He was almost as booming as Isner/Raonic/Karlovic, with some of Pete's control. His serve, when he got into a groove, was unplayable.

But I'd still take Pete's--or Roger's--serve for my perfect player, because of consistency.
Roger might not have had the fastest serve, but his placement was impeccable
 

Kieran

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Serve: Pete
F/hand: Pete/Roger/Rafa
B/hand: Novak, Stan, Rosewall
Return: Jimbo, Agassi, Novak
Volleys: McEnroe
Smash: Pete
Mental strength: Rafa
Slice: McEnroe
Topspin: Borg, Rafa
Stamina: Borg, Rafa, Novak
Speed: Borg
Touch: McEnroe, Roger, Carlos
Drop shots: Carlos
Movement: Borg, Pete, Novak, Carlos, Roger and several more.

Where I named a few players, it’s because they’re largely from different eras and were the best of their time and impossible to downgrade. Or in the case of the Backhand, we have Novak with two hands, and Stan and Rosewall both one handed but from different eras. And forehand, we have the Pete hammer, and 2 peers with very different but equally great forehands.

I didn’t include anyone who hasn’t proved it at the highest level, so no Ivo serve or Nalbandian playground trick shots…
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Serve: Pete
F/hand: Pete/Roger/Rafa
B/hand: Novak, Stan, Rosewall
Return: Jimbo, Agassi, Novak
Volleys: McEnroe
Smash: Pete
Mental strength: Rafa
Slice: McEnroe
Topspin: Borg, Rafa
Stamina: Borg, Rafa, Novak
Speed: Borg
Touch: McEnroe, Roger, Carlos
Drop shots: Carlos
Movement: Borg, Pete, Novak, Carlos, Roger and several more.

Where I named a few players, it’s because they’re largely from different eras and were the best of their time and impossible to downgrade. Or in the case of the Backhand, we have Novak with two hands, and Stan and Rosewall both one handed but from different eras. And forehand, we have the Pete hammer, and 2 peers with very different but equally great forehands.

I didn’t include anyone who hasn’t proved it at the highest level, so no Ivo serve or Nalbandian playground trick shots…
Being a huge Borg fan, I still think a lot of people didnt realize the speed of the man, also his presence on court was at times second to none, ( I will take my Borg tinted sunglasses off now :)
 
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PhiEaglesfan712

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I want to fit Andy Murray in there somewhere - perhaps tenacity? Maintaining being the clear fourth best player in the Big Three era for almost a decade is actually incredibly impressive. There were guys who had flashes of passing him--Del Potro, Wawrinka, even Soderling for a flash--but Murray...abided.
That's what's missing in this era of tennis. The next tier of players after the greats. After the Big 3, you had Andy Murray and del Potro (as well as Wawrinka outside of grass). Now, after Sinner and Alcaraz, the next tier is filled with guys like Dimitrov and Bublik.
 

El Dude

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That's what's missing in this era of tennis. The next tier of players after the greats. After the Big 3, you had Andy Murray and del Potro (as well as Wawrinka outside of grass). Now, after Sinner and Alcaraz, the next tier is filled with guys like Dimitrov and Bublik.
Well, right now. But I think Thiem, Medvedev, Zverev and, for a tiny moment, Tsitsipas were up there above the usual "second tier" types. Thiem and Medvedev, at least, weren't far off for a few years. But those guys are either gone or with various degrees of decline/struggle.

There's still hope for guys like Draper, Rune, Fils, Shelton, Musetti etc to step up. I don't think any of these guys will be in the Murray or Stan 14-16 class, but they all could be above Dimitrov and Bublik.
 

El Dude

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One good way to emphasize the lack of "non-great Slam threats" is to compare the French Open over different eras. For instance:

2005-25 (21 seasons): 5 winners - Nadal 14, Djokovic 3, Alcaraz 2, Federer 1, Wawrinka 1
1989-04 (16 seasons): 11 winners - Kuerten 3, Courier 2, Bruguera 2, Chang 1, Gomez 1, Muster 1, Kafelnikov 1, Moya 1, Costa 1, Ferrero 1, Gaudio 1

Five less years, more than twice as many winners. Now part of that is the greater court homogeneity of the Big Four era, but not all of it. Some of it is also Rafa swallowing whole all clay specialists. But I think most of it is just natural fluctuation of the degree to which greats dominate the sport. From 1974-88, Borg, Wilander and Lendl won 12 of 15 French Opens, with Panatta, Vilas, and Noah sneaking in lone titles. Before Borg's reign, it was five different players in the first six seasons of the Open Era.

The point being, the tour has fluctuated in terms of "top-down hegemony" - not just on specific surfaces, but the tour as a whole. The first six seasons or so--aside from 1969, at least--were very balanced. You had seven different players winning multiple Slams in 1968-73. You had fading inner circle greats like Laver and Rosewall joined by lesser/near greats like Newcombe, Ashe, Nastase and Smith - and even Jan Kodes won three in that era. But then Borg and Connors rose to dominance in 1974 and the "superstar era" began. They were followed by McEnroe and Lendl. As Borg retired and Connors and then McEnroe faded, Wilander, Edberg, and Becker rose to replace them. Then as Lendl and Wilander faded, Agassi and Sampras replaced them (and Courier, for a few years).

But as Edberg and then Becker faded, no new greats emerged for quite a few years until Roger and then Rafa. From 1997 to 2002, only two 6+ Slam winners won Slams - Agassi and Sampras.

Meaning, from about 1974 to the early 1990s, the sport was just as dominated by superstars as it was during the Big Four era, but rather than three of extreme longevity, you had a shifting cast of 6-8 greats (those two extras being Sampras and Agassi coming in at the end). But then in the 90s to early 2000s, it was more of a "stars and scrubs" situation, especially after Courier dropped out of elite status in 1994.

But if we consider a spectrum from "top-down heavy" to "top-down light," in terms of how much the big titles are dominated by great players, we seem to be in a new era that is evocative of the Fedal Era (2005-10), with two guys winning almost everything. Novak and Andy started winning Masters in 2007, just as we saw the Big Four era begin to erode in 2017 from the bottom up as Murray dropped and Next Gen started winning Masters tournaments. But the Big Three held on, and it was only last year that the era truly ended...even if Novak is hanging on by his fingernails.
 
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