2016 Roland Garros FINAL: [1] Novak Djokovic (SRB) vs. [2] Andy Murray (UK)

Who will win?


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Tennis Fan

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Hope they polished out all the teeth marks from previous champions


Back then, if you said 10 or more, you caught hell for it.

I was on Talk Tennis at the time and I kept saying that Novak would win more in the future and people attacked me like crazy. At times it felt like I was the only one rooting for Novak to win; he was too talented not to, but look at this. How great for the people who hung in there with him.
 

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That's a bit facile to say, now. There was a big conversation when Novak had 3 Majors about how many more he might go. It's unfair on those who thought that 10+ was optimistic, at that point. You're not just being smug now, you're diminishing the accomplishment. If what Novak has done were predictable, it wouldn't be so astonishing. Players who win even 3-6 Majors are rare. What Novak has done is very special, especially today. Those that sit and say: "I knew it, and got slagged for it early on," are just buffing themselves up on the internet, and forgetting what it really means what Novak has done.

Not everybody, Moxie. I said it and people attacked me at will. People were slagging, not knowing that they too didn't know the future.
 

Moxie

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Not everybody, Moxie. I said it and people attacked me at will. People were slagging, not knowing that they too didn't know the future.
Isn't that what I said?
 

Moxie

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Didn't sound like that to me. Sorry.
OK, you said you're were getting slagged for predicting, well, I'm not sure what. But given that you were right in retrospect, I'm sure it was unfair, the derision. But it's a lot of perception, too. Some people thought it was early to jump the gun. And the internet being what it is, I'm sure some felt like you that they were being derided. My point was that, not only were some not slagging but trying to be reasonable in the face of predicting the future. That wasn't your experience, obviously. But, at the same time, those who are coming out all puffed up now that they predicted it, diminish the achievement, IMO.
 

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OK, you said you're were getting slagged for predicting, well, I'm not sure what. But given that you were right in retrospect, I'm sure it was unfair, the derision. My point was that, not only were some not slagging but trying to be reasonable in the face of predicting the future. That wasn't your experience, obviously. But, at the same time, those who are coming out all puffed up now that they predicted it, diminish the achievement, IMO.

I just predicted that Novak would win again, not how many, and people were ridiculously cynical. I see what you mean, but don't necessarily agree about them diminishing the achievement. People were rough back then, so if they feel puffed up about correctly predicting good things for Novak, that's alright with me.
 
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Moxie

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I just predicted that Novak would win again, not how many, and people were ridiculously cynical. I see what you mean, but don't necessarily agree about them diminishing the achievement. People were rough back then, so if they feel puffed up about correctly predicting good things for Novak, that's alright with me.
Some of this is old business. Herios mentioned an old site, and it was a conversation from long ago. For those who were seeing all of this for Novak from recently ago, I can't fault them or have any problems. It didn't take "Novak goggles" to see this as a possibility in the last couple of years. It was a different story in 2011.
 

EdbergsGhost

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That's a bit facile to say, now. There was a big conversation when Novak had 3 Majors about how many more he might go. It's unfair on those who thought that 10+ was optimistic, at that point. You're not just being smug now, you're diminishing the accomplishment..

Not being smug nor diminishing anything. Herios made a point. I affirmed his point. Tennis Fan made the same point and you're the only one raising a ruckus over the statements.
 

Moxie

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Not being smug nor diminishing anything. Herios made a point. I affirmed his point. Tennis Fan made the same point and you're the only one raising a ruckus over the statements.
No, herios was talking about the conversation in 2011 on TF, and you said this: "Back then, if you said 10 or more, you caught hell for it." I was trying to say that for some, it seemed before time to say that, with 3, 10+ seemed a stretch, and frankly I caught some hell for that. I'm not "raising a ruckus." I'm just trying to correct a little history. And I think no one should be so smug about predicting it. As I said, if it were that easy and predictable, it wouldn't be so astonishing. What Roger, Rafa and Novak have done in these last few years has been stunning. No one could have predicted that. I don't think any of us should be that complacent about it.
 

EdbergsGhost

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No herios said tennis.com. I don't think that TF existed in 2011. Anyway here is what he said so you don't argue the wrong facts.

4 years ago after the 2011 season, we had on tennis.com forum a thread guessing how many slams will Nole pocket by the end of his career. I forecasted 12.

And I don't think herios was being smug at all. He believed in Djokovic and is just happy to see it come to pass.
 
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Moxie

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No herios said tennis.com. I don't think that TF existed in 2011. Anyway here is what he said so you don't argue the wrong facts.
Fine point. Even I can't remember which forum was which, over the years, but that's not the point. I remember the poll, and it was after Novak won Wimbledon. At that point he had 3 Majors. It seemed at that time prudent to go wait-and-see, for many of us. That wasn't being anti-Nole. It was not possible to foresee this outcome, for most of us. What Djokovic has done is astonishing, don't you agree? I'm not really interested in going over old ground. If you guys want to feel like Nostradamus for having seen it coming, have at it. I just don't think you were so hard done by in terms of the rest of us who thought we'd hold out a little longer to see how things panned out, in 2011.
 

EdbergsGhost

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You continue to completely miss the point of herios' post. He believed in a player and made a forecast based on his belief. He's delighted that the player achieved that milestone. It has nothing to do with feeling like Nostradamus, Either get new glasses or put the bottle away, but please stop reading things in that are not there.
 

Moxie

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You continue to completely miss the point of herios' post. He believed in a player and made a forecast based on his belief. He's delighted that the player achieved that milestone. It has nothing to do with feeling like Nostradamus, Either get new glasses or put the bottle away, but please stop reading things in that are not there.
Well, it was you that said people caught hell for it, which is what I reacted to. But, yes, everyone should be enjoying the moment. No need to be rancorous over old issues. I shouldn't have bit.
 
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Mastoor

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I've never believed No1e can win Roland Garros after he blew opportunity to win against Rafa in 2013 until No1e was 5-2 in the fourth today, but I am happy he won this.

I've read what they are saying in articles about this win and seems no one really realises how big this is. While this is appreciated as another slam, the first Roland Garros for No1e and they even mention it is a career slam completed for No1e, all of that is served with meh flavour. They even add a table of people who completed a career slam and No1e and Agassi look worse that anyone else because they are listed as the oldest ones to do it. So, none of that looked very special for majority of fans because their favourites, Federer and Nadal both won Roland Garros, still have more slams than No1e and they won their career slams at younger age than No1e.

In fact, Novak's accomplishment is much bigger than what Federer and Nadal accomplished. He accomplished something that is an ultimate goal in tennis and that only two other men in history did, Budge in 1938 and Laver twice, in 1962 and 1968. No1e won The Grand Slam, which means he holds all 4 consecutive slams. However there is something that makes Novak's achievement unique. Unlike Budge and Laver, No1e won his Grand Slam on 3 different surfaces.

During the slam he achieved couple of other things that I didn't see English media to write about except sporadically and shyly. No1e is the first man who won more than 100 million in prize money and he qualified for ATP WTF in London.

I think that the key for Novak's win in this slam was that he was keeping relaxed and not obsessed with achievement in later stages. He was posting some videos goofing with friends and family a night before the final, he was posting messages citing late Serbian Patriarch Pavle. I think permanently smiling and laughing Guga's presence influenced him a lot too, so from quarterfinal to final No1e was more relaxed and played closer to his best while in some previous Roland Garroses it wasn't the case.
 

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Do I have to say how delighted I was today? Really, a dream coming true.
I know how much this meant to Novak and I was so hoping he will close the deal.
4 years ago after the 2011 season, we had on tennis.com forum a thread guessing how many slams will Nole pocket by the end of his career. I forecasted 12.
He managed to do that, although back then it seemed ambitious. From here on, I will be happy with whatever happens.
Cheers everyone

I too think it was tennis.com and I think I predicted over 20. Then everyone laughed but now I think he will get close to that. I think it was earlier, 2009 or 2010 when we had the predictions
 

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I've never believed No1e can win Roland Garros after he blew opportunity to win against Rafa in 2013 until No1e was 5-2 in the fourth today, but I am happy he won this.

I've read what they are saying in articles about this win and seems no one really realises how big this is. While this is appreciated as another slam, the first Roland Garros for No1e and they even mention it is a career slam completed for No1e, all of that is served with meh flavour. They even add a table of people who completed a career slam and No1e and Agassi look worse that anyone else because they are listed as the oldest ones to do it. So, none of that looked very special for majority of fans because their favourites, Federer and Nadal both won Roland Garros, still have more slams than No1e and they won their career slams at younger age than No1e.

In fact, Novak's accomplishment is much bigger than what Federer and Nadal accomplished. He accomplished something that is an ultimate goal in tennis and that only two other men in history did, Budge in 1938 and Laver twice, in 1962 and 1968. No1e won The Grand Slam, which means he holds all 4 consecutive slams. However there is something that makes Novak's achievement unique. Unlike Budge and Laver, No1e won his Grand Slam on 3 different surfaces.

During the slam he achieved couple of other things that I didn't see English media to write about except sporadically and shyly. No1e is the first man who won more than 100 million in prize money and he qualified for ATP WTF in London.

I think that the key for Novak's win in this slam was that he was keeping relaxed and not obsessed with achievement in later stages. He was posting some videos goofing with friends and family a night before the final, he was posting messages citing late Serbian Patriarch Pavle. I think permanently smiling and laughing Guga's presence influenced him a lot too, so from quarterfinal to final No1e was more relaxed and played closer to his best while in some previous Roland Garroses it wasn't the case.

Not that i don't share your passion, but by definition the Grand Slam is done in a calendar year...... always has been the case, therefore they call it the Serena slam and not GS.

Truth be pointed out, he actually played higher level at RG before (such as 2011/2013/2015) but its not required this time....... he knows true and well that Murray should simply be his punchbag if he is normal. He actually played below par to allow Murray the first set, but surely he knew he was gonna come back.
 
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Ricardo

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I too think it was tennis.com and I think I predicted over 20. Then everyone laughed but now I think he will get close to that. I think it was earlier, 2009 or 2010 when we had the predictions

people do laugh at how delusional you can get. wait till he gets 20 first though, personally i don't think he will.
 

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Congrats to Nole even if I'm very sad for Muzza, the great Serbonator deserved to win at least 1 RG
 

Carol

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Sincerely I give a lot of credit to Novak, he is not wasting the time at all taking all the advantage that the circumstances are giving him.
What I don't finish to understand why many people say that the players at 29 and over start the decline but they also think that someone could win 8 or 10 more GS. I don't think it could happen unless the others top players would continue playing bad or they would be injured (like it's happening now) or the young generation wouldn't be able (not enough good game) to win a MS and GS like also is happening now.
 

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Sincerely I give a lot of credit to Novak, he is not wasting the time at all taking all the advantage that the circumstances are giving him.
What I don't finish to understand why many people say that the players at 29 and over start the decline but they also think that someone could win 8 or 10 more GS. I don't think it could happen unless the others top players would continue playing bad or they would be injured (like it's happening now) or the young generation wouldn't be able (not enough good game) to win a MS and GS like also is happening now.

That's so true, Carol. There are so many inconsistencies when people are arguing their points.

Over 29= obvious decline and then the bar changes.

Free flowing game = less injuries, but more "free flowing" players stay on the injured list.

It's so funny to read sometimes.