Is Nadal declining ?

[Front242]

Yup. Passive play beats nobodies but it also beats nobody good!

 

[Fiero425]

Yup. Passive play beats nobodies but it also beats nobody good!

Well said! Last season he blamed it on the racket, mono, a back injury, and lack of desire, but playing defensive got him nowhere; esp. on clay! He was embarrassed by players I'd never heard of like Stakhovsky, Brands, Delbonis! (WHO?) :nono uzzled :angel:

 

[DarthFed]

Murray's become a lot more aggressive since Lendl came along but before then I'd agree he was defensive and passive as hell. He can veer back into passive mode a lot but then so can Federer. They all deviate from the plan A gameplan at times. Must say though I do find Murray's game style a lot more watchable since Lendl came along. Before that it was very much like Wozniacki and Radwanska pusher tennis, just hoping to make the opponent lose rather than trying to win. Thankfully he doesn't play like that anymore most of the time.

The last several years, I have complained about Federer reverting to defensive tennis! It's like he thinks he's 10 years younger and can outlast or wait other players out when he does lose to people we don't even know! He probably should have won that Wimbledon match against Nole, but he thinks he can slug it out with 30 stroke points and it's just not true! He may have a nice showing, but in each match that he loses, esp. if it's close, it's because he becomes passive, being very stubborn and not attacking when he has opportunities! Gasquet's not in the top echelon of the pros, but he has a beautiful game; esp. if "he's on!" :clap :angel:

I agree with this. Roger for the most part has not adapted his game as he aged, especially on the return. He can get away with blocking 2nd serves back against lesser players but it gets him into a lot of trouble vs. anyone good as he does not win many neutral points vs. Nole, Rafa, and Murray. It's one thing he's never changed.

Aside from that, the passive play we see from the baseline at times is down to one thing...he misses a few forehands and then is afraid to pull the trigger. I've noticed it for years and this past Wimbledon final was another example. Overall Roger played a very clean match but then he wasn't putting much on the forehand once he misfired on a few of them. He looked more Gilles Simon than Roger Federer.

Roger will NOT make any inroads vs. Nole and Rafa from the baseline if his forehand isn't clicking. That's what lost him Wimbledon this year, he was easy pickings from the baseline.

 

[Moxie]

It's what they do to allow absolute nobodies to extend them to the limit; usually playing so defensively! The stroke production is ugly; esp. with Rafa and the way he cocks that stupid forehand! Then there's the backing up like Monica Seles when they're half way to the net on short balls! I could go on, but just thinking about how they play bothers me! There's more style and grace with other players like Federer, Wawrinka, Nole, Gasquet, and of course "Baby-Fed," Dimitrov!

Yup. Passive play beats nobodies but it also beats nobody good!

Well said! Last season he blamed it on the racket, mono, a back injury, and lack of desire, but playing defensive got him nowhere; esp. on clay! He was embarrassed by players I'd never heard of like Stakhovsky, Brands, Delbonis! (WHO?) :nono uzzled :angel:

So, just to regroup: if one of the things you don't like about Nadal and Murray is that they play defensively, and let "nobodies" push them to the limit, how does Federer make your list of guys whose play you DO like? I know you're arguing that Fed shouldn't play that way, but you're also saying that he does. So, either he should fall off your list of admired players, or you shouldn't object that Murray and Nadal have success playing that way. Even if Roger doesn't. If you find it egregious to the point of insult when some players do it, then you should judge your favorites by the same stick.

 

[Fiero425]

It's what they do to allow absolute nobodies to extend them to the limit; usually playing so defensively! The stroke production is ugly; esp. with Rafa and the way he cocks that stupid forehand! Then there's the backing up like Monica Seles when they're half way to the net on short balls! I could go on, but just thinking about how they play bothers me! There's more style and grace with other players like Federer, Wawrinka, Nole, Gasquet, and of course "Baby-Fed," Dimitrov!

Yup. Passive play beats nobodies but it also beats nobody good!

Well said! Last season he blamed it on the racket, mono, a back injury, and lack of desire, but playing defensive got him nowhere; esp. on clay! He was embarrassed by players I'd never heard of like Stakhovsky, Brands, Delbonis! (WHO?) :nono uzzled :angel:

So, just to regroup: if one of the things you don't like about Nadal and Murray is that they play defensively, and let "nobodies" push them to the limit, how does Federer make your list of guys whose play you DO like? I know you're arguing that Fed shouldn't play that way, but you're also saying that he does. So, either he should fall off your list of admired players, or you shouldn't object that Murray and Nadal have success playing that way. Even if Roger doesn't. If you find it egregious to the point of insult when some players do it, then you should judge your favorites by the same stick.

Federer used to have the best game in tennis, winning almost everything in sight; 3 majors a year in fact, but I've been one to think he's past it! He has his moments, but overall he's playing too defensively and will only embarrass himself unless he starts to move forward and finish points quicker! He's down to winning a major once every 3 years! That won't cut it unless he's willing to allow the humiliation to continue in the intervening periods! This past Wimbledon was his best chance to break the trend, but he couldn't finish! He needs help to take a biggie, but so far Nole, Rafa, and Andy haven't accommodated him like they used to! :nono uzzled :angel:

 

[Mile]

He migth be declining, and I think like whis Wimbledon 2014 was Federer last stand, so Roland Garros 2015 will be Nadal last stand. He will try anything to defend title there, other part of season insnt important to him as No.1 spot also.

 

[Kieran]

Rafa doesn't "play defensively." He's constantly on the mooch to switch the rally to his forehand so he can pressure the opponent and drive them crazy with it. He turns defence into attack at the bat of an eye and his aim is to gain the centre of the court and apply pressure with the forehand.

We had this before with Lux, the notion of Rafa as a counterpuncher. Every player has to "counter punch" on return of serve but there's a difference between this, and being a counterpuncher. Likewise, playing defensively in a rally when your opponent has the upperhand isn't a sign of being a defensive player. You have to be a defensive player at times, but Rafa's more built to control and hammer with the forehand, than to wait it out and hope the other fella misses...

 

[El Dude]

But the real question is, who is the GOAT?! :lolz:

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

But the real question is, who is the GOAT?! :lolz:

Who is the Goat? Billy, of course...

 

[El Dude]

 

[TennisFanatic7]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvWGLcdI8o8[/video]

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Maybe he is only reclining???


http://www.harveynorman.co.nz/furniture/recliner-chairs/nadal-recliner.html

 

[Front242]

Maybe he is only reclining???


http://www.harveynorman.co.nz/furniture/recliner-chairs/nadal-recliner.html

ROFL! Was expecting a photo of a chair but the name of the chair there is class. Here's more of him reclining.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSHU5Av_8cA&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

 

[Fiero425]

But the real question is, who is the GOAT?! :lolz:

Well it's not Nadal; that's for sure! A real GOAT can defend their titles on other surfaces than clay! Going by that, Rafa isn't even in the running! :nono :lolz: :laydownlaughing :angel:

 

[Billie]

Well cramps can be quite painful, as a matter of fact I screamed loudly a couple of times when it happened to me. I don't know why that episode should be made fun of, but whatever.

 

[Fiero425]

Well cramps can be quite painful, as a matter of fact I screamed loudly a couple of times when it happened to me. I don't know why that episode should be made fun of, but whatever.

Real cramps or just a "charlie horse?" I used to get them in my thighs all the time as a kid into adulthood due to not hydrating! I was from the 'old school' and didn't eat or drink before, during, or much after playing! In the middle of the night they would come! The worst attack I had was 20 years ago! I had showered and was sitting in my recliner minding my own business and they started in both legs! Trying to get up, my abdomen joined the act! Since I was by myself, I had to roll off the chair onto the floor and just pray they stopped until I could get some water in me! From then on I learned my lesson! :nono uzzled :angel:

 

[Billie]

Well cramps can be quite painful, as a matter of fact I screamed loudly a couple of times when it happened to me. I don't know why that episode should be made fun of, but whatever.

Real cramps or just a "charlie horse?" I used to get them in my thighs all the time as a kid into adulthood due to not hydrating! I was from the 'old school' and didn't eat or drink before, during, or much after playing! In the middle of the night they would come! The worst attack I had was 20 years ago! I had showered and was sitting in my recliner minding my own business and they started in both legs! Trying to get up, my abdomen joined the act! Since I was by myself, I had to roll off the chair onto the floor and just pray they stopped until I could get some water in me! From then on I learned my lesson! :nono uzzled :angel:

I had them in my feet, real ones, and it is no laughing matter, no matter how harmless they might be. I also had some that you can't possibly have but I won't talk about those.:laydownlaughing:blush:

 

[britbox]

Well cramps can be quite painful, as a matter of fact I screamed loudly a couple of times when it happened to me. I don't know why that episode should be made fun of, but whatever.

Real cramps or just a "charlie horse?" I used to get them in my thighs all the time as a kid into adulthood due to not hydrating! I was from the 'old school' and didn't eat or drink before, during, or much after playing! In the middle of the night they would come! The worst attack I had was 20 years ago! I had showered and was sitting in my recliner minding my own business and they started in both legs! Trying to get up, my abdomen joined the act! Since I was by myself, I had to roll off the chair onto the floor and just pray they stopped until I could get some water in me! From then on I learned my lesson! :nono uzzled :angel:

I had them in my feet, real ones, and it is no laughing matter, no matter how harmless they might be. I also had some that you can't possibly have but I won't talk about those.:laydownlaughing:blush:

Real feet?

 

[Kieran]

:laydownlaughing :lolz:

 

[Billie]

:laydownlaughing @ BB....

Nutso!!:lolz: