US Politics Thread

[britbox]

General thread for US Politics Discussion...

 

[britbox]

A few talking points to kick off proceedings but take this down any route you wish....

Can Trump possibly win the US Presidential Election?

Do Americans care that much about Foreign Policy?

What will be Barack Obama's legacy?

If you don't like Trump and/or Hillary then who would have been your preferred candidate?

What are the biggest domestic concerns for the populace of the United States?

What are the biggest external overseas concerns for the populace of the United States?

 

[britbox]

Cruz doesn't endorse Trump and basically backtracks on his pledge to back the winner at the beginning of the campagin.

The Don goes on the offensive.

 

[britbox]

Trump accepts GOP nomination:

 

[britbox]

Not a natural fan of Trump but that speech was powerful.

 

[britbox]

Ted Cruz is toast.

 

[Federberg]

^I'm not so sure. I think what Ted Cruz did was position himself for the aftermath of the Republican party should Trump lose. He showed himself to be a man of principle who wasn't craven enough to endorse someone who he, just a short while ago, vehemently and personally disagreed with. That could work for him in the future

 

[Federberg]

Very impressed with Tim Kaine's speech.

 

[Moxie]

^I'm not so sure. I think what Ted Cruz did was position himself for the aftermath of the Republican party should Trump lose. He showed himself to be a man of principle who wasn't craven enough to endorse someone who he, just a short while ago, vehemently and personally disagreed with. That could work for him in the future

I don't like anything about Cruz or his politics, but he did a rather brave thing to not endorse. Trump missed a chance to applaud him when he said "Vote your conscience." Sure, it's code, but it's not a statement that anyone can actually object to.

A few talking points to kick off proceedings but take this down any route you wish....

Can Trump possibly win the US Presidential Election?

Do Americans care that much about Foreign Policy?

What will be Barack Obama's legacy?

If you don't like Trump and/or Hillary then who would have been your preferred candidate?

What are the biggest domestic concerns for the populace of the United States?

What are the biggest external overseas concerns for the populace of the United States?

I do believe there are enough sensible people in the US to prevent a Trump presidency. I don't think he will win. I think a lot of Republicans will quietly either pass on voting for a Presidential candidate, or actually vote for Hillary. The Republican party, what there is left of it, will likely push hard for candidates for House and Senate, but will pass on campaigning for Trump.

I do like Hillary, and she is very, very qualified for the job. She has a "likeablity" problem because she has been vilified and persecuted, largely unfairly, but Republicans since she became the First Lady in 1992. A lot of money and attention to bigger things has been wasted in that effort. If I could have had anyone, I might have preferred Elizabeth Warren, though. But Clinton is the most prepared to step into the job of anyone out there.

I would say job creation is the biggest issue for Americans on the domestic side, and terrorism/worldwide unrest on the international front. It's unfortunately true, though, that lots of Americans don't much care about international issues.

I think history will be much kinder to Obama that his vilifiers. Healthcare will be the big one. He has also shepherded us well through times of big social change. He will be remembered as a great orator, and as such, he has helped change the conversation on race, marriage and gender equality, LGTBQ rights and senseless gun violence. He got us out of Iraq...a war that most sensible Americans agree we never should have been in, and he's normalizing relations with Cuba. Not bad, considering how hard the opposition has been trying to block his every initiative.

 

[Federberg]

I have a feeling there will be some big Republican defections at the DNC this week.

 

[britbox]

I do like Hillary, and she is very, very qualified for the job. She has a "likeablity" problem because she has been vilified and persecuted, largely unfairly, but Republicans since she became the First Lady in 1992.

You've mentioned Hillary is very qualified for the job before... how so? She seems a walking disaster based on her past history and just being an incumbent in high profile positions doesn't really cut it.

 

[Federberg]

^I do think she's very qualified, but extremely disliked. Moxie has a point that a lot of the dislike is a consequence of persistent attacks from the time she was the First Lady. I recall the outrage when she made the slip of saying that she wasn't some Tammy Wynette stand by your man kind of woman. Obviously that was just a song by Tammy Wynette and not necessarily her own political views. She has made mistakes and is definitely not the most honest politician out there, but there's something extremely personal about some of the characterisations of her. The Republicans have been very successful doing this. In a way, it's a complement to her. They wouldn't have bothered if they didn't see her as competent. You don't do that unless you actually fear/ respect your opponent. We're all just guilty of buying the propaganda and running with it. For me personally, in the absence of alternatives she's the best candidate out there. I just wish there was a Republican candidate that I could more naturally support...

 

[calitennis127]

I don't like anything about Cruz or his politics, but he did a rather brave thing to not endorse. Trump missed a chance to applaud him when he said "Vote your conscience." Sure, it's code, but it's not a statement that anyone can actually object to.

You always suffer from a shortage of information. If Cruz did not want to endorse Trump, that's fine, but then he should not have made this statement back in March:

 

[calitennis127]

I do believe there are enough sensible people in the US to prevent a Trump presidency.

I actually there are enough stupid people in the United States to vote for Hillary and continue the era of pretentious ignorance led by Obama.

I do like Hillary, and she is very, very qualified for the job.

Agreed. She has repeatedly demonstrated sound judgment on key foreign policy decisions such as the Iraq war and the decision to take out Qaddafi in Libya. She also, like her fellow women Elizabeth Warren and Barack Obama, shows immense intellectual rigor when dealing with the question of Islamic militancy. She has also campaigned for women's rights in Afghanistan while taking money from numerous Gulf State regimes. Most of all, she has demonstrated excellent translation skills:

She has a "likeablity" problem because she has been vilified and persecuted, largely unfairly, but Republicans since she became the First Lady in 1992.

She has a likeability problem because she is a proven liar and everyone acknowledges her artificiality.

I would say job creation is the biggest issue for Americans on the domestic side, and terrorism/worldwide unrest on the international front. It's unfortunately true, though, that lots of Americans don't much care about international issues.

And if they knew anything substantial about them, they would never say that Hillary Clinton is suited to be president.

I think history will be much kinder to Obama that his vilifiers. Healthcare will be the big one.

For increasing tax burden on middle class taxpayers and increasing the dependency on government of the underclass.

He will be remembered as a great orator

Only by people with no standards for oratory.

and as such, he has helped change the conversation on race, marriage and gender equality, LGTBQ rights and senseless gun violence.

Barack Obama has added absolutely nothing to the conversation on any of these questions. He has only repeated the same old leftist cliches. He has divided the nation on matters of race and helped promote the continued destruction of healthy marriages in America. He has not done a single useful or intelligent thing on the social policy front.

He got us out of Iraq...a war that most sensible Americans agree we never should have been in

Do those "sensible Americans" include Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, and Joe Biden?

Obama got us out of Iraq, but very recklessly and stupidly. He also gave the go-ahead to Hillary's ill-advised intervention in Libya and he has pandered to and facilitated the continued strength of global jihad with his pronouncements on foreign policy and immigration policy.

Not bad, considering how hard the opposition has been trying to block his every initiative.

You clearly do not follow politics very closely to think that Republicans have been trying to block Obama's "every initiative." That is pure nonsense.

 

[britbox]

^I do think she's very qualified, but extremely disliked. Moxie has a point that a lot of the dislike is a consequence of persistent attacks from the time she was the First Lady. I recall the outrage when she made the slip of saying that she wasn't some Tammy Wynette stand by your man kind of woman. Obviously that was just a song by Tammy Wynette and not necessarily her own political views. She has made mistakes and is definitely not the most honest politician out there, but there's something extremely personal about some of the characterisations of her. The Republicans have been very successful doing this. In a way, it's a complement to her. They wouldn't have bothered if they didn't see her as competent. You don't do that unless you actually fear/ respect your opponent. We're all just guilty of buying the propaganda and running with it. For me personally, in the absence of alternatives she's the best candidate out there. I just wish there was a Republican candidate that I could more naturally support...

I think most people would base their opinions of Hillary on Whitewater, Hillarycare, Benghazi and the email scandal rather than a Tammy Wynette song.

 

[Moxie]

You've mentioned Hillary is very qualified for the job before... how so? She seems a walking disaster based on her past history and just being an incumbent in high profile positions doesn't really cut it.

Federberg made a compelling argument for how and why she's been vilified, and unfairly. As to her qualifications: besides being the political companion to her husband who was a popular and successful President and governor of Arkansas, she was, in her own right, a popular and successful Senator for NY, my state. And she was the Secretary of State for the first four years of the Obama Administration. Whatever anyone thinks about how she's performed in these jobs, and there is a lot of evidence that she did well, it is a wealth of political experience. You may buy into the propaganda against her, but you can't say she's not experienced in politics. Which you cannot say about Trump. Don't be disingenuous. Or coy. If you don't like Hillary, that's one thing, but you can't say she doesn't have strong political chops and connections, on the domestic front, in the Senate, and in face-to-face relationships with leaders around the world. She's practically over-qualified for the job. Just compare her experience to the past Presidents of even my life. Kennedy: Senate only. Johnson: Senate only. Nixon: VP and Senator of CA. Ford: give me a break. Carter: Governor of GA. Reagan: Gov. of CA and head of the Screen Actors Guild. Bush 1: VP and Head of CIA. Clinton, Bill: Gov. of AK. Bush 2: Gov. of TX, owner of a baseball team. Obama: Senator from IL.

She is very qualified.

 

[britbox]

Federberg made a compelling argument for how and why she's been vilified, and unfairly. As to her qualifications: besides being the political companion to her husband who was a popular and successful President and governor of Arkansas, she was, in her own right, a popular and successful Senator for NY, my state. And she was the Secretary of State for the first four years of the Obama Administration. Whatever anyone thinks about how she's performed in these jobs, and there is a lot of evidence that she did well, it is a wealth of political experience. You may buy into the propaganda against her, but you can't say she's not experienced in politics. Which you cannot say about Trump. Don't be disingenuous. Or coy. If you don't like Hillary, that's one thing, but you can't say she doesn't have strong political chops and connections, on the domestic front, in the Senate, and in face-to-face relationships with leaders around the world. She's practically over-qualified for the job. Just compare her experience to the past Presidents of even my life. Kennedy: Senate only. Johnson: Senate only. Nixon: VP and Senator of CA. Ford: give me a break. Carter: Governor of GA. Reagan: Gov. of CA and head of the Screen Actors Guild. Bush 1: VP and Head of CIA. Clinton, Bill: Gov. of AK. Bush 2: Gov. of TX, owner of a baseball team. Obama: Senator from IL.

She is very qualified.

Experience in politics doesn't mean you are any good. Hillary is very lucky... very lucky - she's straddled various jobs because of her name more than anything else. She strikes me as being utterly incompetent... but very ruthless. Yes, maybe that's what is required.... many politicians do possess those attributes.

 

[Moxie]

Experience in politics doesn't mean you are any good. Hillary is very lucky... very lucky - she's straddled various jobs because of her name more than anything else. She strikes me as being utterly incompetent... but very ruthless. Yes, maybe that's what is required.... many politicians do possess those attributes.

Well, that's your point of view, from far away. She was my Senator, my First Lady, and my Secretary of State, and I think she did a great job. She's a work horse. To me, she cares deeply about working for the people. For sure she's made mistakes, but she's not the only one. And, you know what? She's not afraid to be a friend to Wall Street. I know you're no liberal...you should be enthusiastic about that. The social agenda will be Progressive, but the economic one will be cautious. And the world view will be saavy.

 

[calitennis127]

Federberg made a compelling argument for how and why she's been vilified, and unfairly. As to her qualifications: besides being the political companion to her husband who was a popular and successful President and governor of Arkansas, she was, in her own right, a popular and successful Senator for NY, my state. And she was the Secretary of State for the first four years of the Obama Administration. Whatever anyone thinks about how she's performed in these jobs, and there is a lot of evidence that she did well, it is a wealth of political experience. You may buy into the propaganda against her, but you can't say she's not experienced in politics. Which you cannot say about Trump. Don't be disingenuous. Or coy. If you don't like Hillary, that's one thing, but you can't say she doesn't have strong political chops and connections, on the domestic front, in the Senate, and in face-to-face relationships with leaders around the world. She's practically over-qualified for the job. Just compare her experience to the past Presidents of even my life. Kennedy: Senate only. Johnson: Senate only. Nixon: VP and Senator of CA. Ford: give me a break. Carter: Governor of GA. Reagan: Gov. of CA and head of the Screen Actors Guild. Bush 1: VP and Head of CIA. Clinton, Bill: Gov. of AK. Bush 2: Gov. of TX, owner of a baseball team. Obama: Senator from IL.

She is very qualified.

In that sense, she is qualified, and so is every tenured member of government, no matter how much they have been wrong throughout their lives.

 

[Moxie]

In that sense, she is qualified, and so is every tenured member of government, no matter how much they have been wrong throughout their lives.

No, every other member of government is not as qualified as she is. She is extraordinarily qualified, and whether you agree with her politics or not, it's not like she's been "wrong throughout" her political life. She has done an enormous amount of good. In addition, she has political relationships and allies in the Senate and around the world that no one else can claim.