UK Politics Thread

[mrzz]

It has many contexts in the koran, not necessarily militaristic. A lot talk about internal struggle and striving. There's no question that there are interpretations that can be taken in a military context, but even here it's more defensive in nature. The point is that two muslims can read the same text and extract a different meaning. Same thing in the bible by the way (not talking about violence, just interpretations).

Yes, surely there are many interpretations, and I will not dwell on that (obviously). On the face of it, I fully agree with your point above, but there are two things that need to be said: there are explicit passages on the Qu´oran, that, at least for an illiterate reader, will sound pretty clear. Yes, there are some explicit passages on the Bible too, specially the old testament, but the thing is that priests, pastors and etc have been efficient (generally) in telling people to extract different meanings of it. We go back full circle to the point where I expected the Muslim "institutions" to do something about it (there are some structural reasons to it, I know).

Sadly, it's not too soon to say that. The data is supportive in both the UK and US. It might be long repressed, or it could the toxic combination of economic circumstance and contemporary politics

I guess we just disagree, but maybe it is interpretation. I believe the data you mentioned, am I just disputing the root cause of them. We are in a transition period, my point is that it is still to soon to relate social data to new social policies.

I do find it striking, and this is always a big fear for me with the media. As hard as we try, they have a way of directing the narrative and it's up to us to truly understand what's happening

Agreed. That has been always my point. The thing I tried to stress in my previous post (but I wasn´t clear) is that in such complicated times there will be always shit happening, and the headlines will be misleading by definition. One immigrant committing rape is a tragedy -- as it is a fucking retard killing people from another races -- but both do not prove anything, written in bold capital letters or not.

 

[Federberg]

^ I have to say I find it hilarious that we are worrying about the competence of 18 year old voters. Personally I think we've got bigger issues with voters of all ages at the moment

 

[britbox]

Listening to Corbyn at Prime Ministers Questions... he's hopeless at the despatch box. May's tearing him a new hole.

 

[Federberg]

As Trump would say, PM May could shoot someone on Oxford Street and she would still win the next election

 

[britbox]

As Trump would say, PM May could shoot someone on Oxford Street and she would still win the next election

Well, she's going for it... I'm assuming to get a bigger majority for the Brexit voting to come.

June 8th Election.

 

[britbox]

 

[teddytennisfan]

General Thread for UK Politics

A few talking points to kick off proceedings but take this down any route you wish....

Is May the right leader for the Conservative Party?

Will Article 50 definitely be invoked?

Are UKIP a busted flush now that Brexit has been voted for?

Is Corbyn the right man to lead the Labour Party?

Will Corbyn end up leading the Labour Party?

Are the Lib Dems now totally irrelevant?

What are the biggest external overseas concerns for the populace of the United States?

Should the Trident Nuclear Programme be pursued?

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  Wild boars attack ISIS base in Iraq, killing three jihadists
  
  
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Wild boars are joining the fight against ISIS, and doing a good job killing the US-Saudi backed jihadists.

Somewhere in America John McCain is pissed off to see wild boars defeat his ISIS army.

Reports are coming in that wild boars attacked an ISIS base in the al-Rashad region of Kirkuk late Sunday.

According to IraqiNews, three members of ISIS were left dead by the boar attack.

This strange SITREP from IraqiNews…

The clash occurred because the animals had encroached on the terrorists’ farmland.

Alsumaria News quoted a source as saying that “Daesh militants took revenge on the pigs that attacked the farmland,” but did not provide details.

Daesh captured areas of Kirkuk Governorate after invading the country in 2014 and has executed civilians over what it considers disobedience (such as collaboration with the country’s legitimate authorities and attempts to flee). The Iraqi government is expected to launch a campaign against Daesh in the region after it completes the operation to retake Mosul, the terrorists’ stronghold in the country, which kicked off in October.

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The Kirkuk Boars now lead the ISIS Daesh 3-0 - http://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/wild-boars-rampage-kirkuk-leaves-3-members-dead/ …

8:57 PM - 24 Apr 2017

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[britbox]

This interview with the hapless Diane Abbott is so bad it's laughable.... hope Corbyn hasn't promised her a position in the treasury...

 

[britbox]

Abbot at it again with her appalling maths during the local elections.



She's going to get targeted on facts and figures throughout the general election. Will be a major liability for Team Corbyn who are thin on the ground already with talent.

 

[britbox]

Labour suffering huge losses under Corbyn in the council elections doesn't bode well for them at the upcoming general election.

UKIP are now officially a busted flush now Brexit is going ahead... losing all their 140+ council seat gains and getting just 1 back in return. UKIPers and probably quite a few former pro-Brexit Labour supporters going to Conservatives.

 

[britbox]

Alistair Campbell interviews his old boss Tony Blair.

 

[britbox]

I think we we will see a split in the Labour Party after the election @Mary as you predicted.

 

[Mary]

I think we we will see a split in the Labour Party after the election @Mary as you predicted.

I hope so and I wish it had happened last year. I find it hard to support a party which has not dealt with people like Blair, Benn, Eagle, Watson and McNichol who openly oppose a democratically elected leader and misuse the party members funds. The list of appalling things they have done has grown and grown.

I would prefer to see a true old labour party based on respect for members rather than one full of self serving careerist polticians with no integrity.

Brexit is proving to be a poisoned chalice as many of us knew it would. I can't see how a Govt which has such incompetent people in key posts can achieve anything positive. May, Rudd, Truss, Leadsom, Hunt, Johnson are like a bad version of the Rocky Horror Show!

 

[britbox]

Doesn't it concern you that the old "Michael Foot type" Labour party will never get a sniff at power, or implementing those policies? Surely, there has to be compromise within the Labour party to even have a chance? I'm not a fan of Alistair Campbell, but he's a pragmatist at least... and that's kind of the view he espouses.

 

[Mary]

Doesn't it concern you that the old "Michael Foot type" Labour party will never get a sniff at power, or implementing those policies? Surely, there has to be compromise within the Labour party to even have a chance? I'm not a fan of Alistair Campbell, but he's a pragmatist at least... and that's kind of the view he espouses.

To me the labour party is the grass roots members who are massively pro left. The PLP is where the problem is, they are irreconcilably divided and will never work together. The last three years have shown that the PLP is dysfunctional and is not representing those who voted for them. Or those who worked for nothing to get them elected, trudging round canvassing and leafleting for days.

The Tories are of course manipulating boundaries again to give them safer seats and the press, dominated by millionaires, is criminally biased,/ as is the BBC. These things plus the lack of harmony in the party make it unlikely that we will see a labour govt for a long time and every labour party member knows this. But Power can come from effective opposition as well as being in govt, we have pushed May to many U turns this last twelve months and may achieve more. But we can't go on as we are, fighting on two fronts. We need a party where we agree on principles, without that we have nothing worth fighting for.

I am totally depressed by our electoral system at present. It is biased, undemocratic, corrupt. The dropping of fraud charges against the Tories, May's failure to declare her husbands millions made from Brexit, her deal with Richmond, it is just one thing after another. To me she makes Thatcher look like a Humanitarian Aid worker. And the Brexit negotiations are appalling. I find it hard to believe any politician could threaten to withdraw cooperation over anti terrorism activity.

Did you ever read Nancy Mitford? She had a wonderful character called Uncle Matthew. When people annoyed him and he disliked them he would write their names on slips of paper and put them in a special drawer. He would tell friends, " don't worry, I've put him in the drawer." I tell you I am onto draw no 3 right now.

 

[britbox]

Ha, no I've never ready Nancy Milford but the story tickled me enough to maybe start reading Nancy Mitford

I'd disagree with you on effective opposition because I don't think in the current environment it is effective at all. I never thought I'd see the Conservatives supplant Labour in Scotland as the main opposition party... astonishing.

I think you'll have to split after the election, which will be a pity as the country always needs an effective opposition... and there won't be one. Hope, you're not writing my name down and putting me in the special drawer, but can't see any other scenario as it stands. There's going to be a lot more blood letting in the Labour Civil War.

 

[Mary]

Ha, no I've never ready Nancy Milford but the story tickled me enough to maybe start reading Nancy Mitford

I'd disagree with you on effective opposition because I don't think in the current environment it is effective at all. I never thought I'd see the Conservatives supplant Labour in Scotland as the main opposition party... astonishing.

I think you'll have to split after the election, which will be a pity as the country always needs an effective opposition... and there won't be one. Hope, you're not writing my name down and putting me in the special drawer, but can't see any other scenario as it stands. There's going to be a lot more blood letting in the Labour Civil War.

No you are not in my drawer! I have no problem with honest disagreement at all, we all have differing views and that's normal and healthy.

The sooner we split the better - I won't give my precious money to creatures like Blair and Watson and co. Then we can start to build on a firm foundation. But I wish June could see the end of May!

Nancy wrote very witty stories based on her own upbringing, wealthy upperclasss 1930s-40s. They are lightweight but so funny. They have televised really well and are on DVD. Try Love in a Cold Climate or The Pursuit of Love.

 

[britbox]

I'm interested in your thoughts on Watson... I can't really figure him out.

 

[Mary]

I'm interested in your thoughts on Watson... I can't really figure him out.

I actually voted for him as deputy, based on his TU background and self presentation in the post Ed leadership run up. But he has shown himself to be pretty grim this last year. My main issues are that he was instrumental in suspending and expelling labour members who were known to be Corbyn supporters. This was done by trawling their Facebook and Twitter accs and picking on the least thing, eg used the word Blairite, likes the Foo Fighters. That was enough to get people thrown out of the party. He was instrumental in the Court Case brought by members who wanted to vote in the leadership selection and laughed and jeered when they lost -I saw him on TV then and it was ugly. And he is openly against 1 member 1 vote.
There is a version of the Red Flag:

The working class can kiss my ass, I've got an MP's seat at last,
And now my nose is in the trough, the rest of you can bugger off,
For socialism's not for me, I never liked democracy,
I'll sack you if you don't agree, cause I know best and I'm big T

 

[britbox]

Interesting. My own vibe about him was that he just seemed untrustworthy. I'm not just saying that because he's Labour (plenty of Tories give me that vibe too)... but I got the impression that he'd sell his own granny to further his career... and take the fake moral high ground in the process.