Tommy Haas (and players born in the 70s)

El Dude

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As you all probably know, Tommy Haas is attempting another comeback at the ripe age of 39 years old. He is one of only a few players born in the 70s still on tour, with a pro career stretching back to first Bill Clinton administration (1996)!

To put that in context, some of the top Hollywood movies from 1996 are Jerry Maguire, Independence Day (the first one), Twister, the English Patient, Fargo, Scream, Mission Impossible I, and Sling Blade. "Macarena" was the top pop song of the year. In news, Netanyahu became president of Israel, and Boris Yeltsin of Russia, and the Unabomber Ted Kaczynski was arrested.

In sports, the New York Yankees won the World Series for the first time in almost 20 years, Pete Sampras was still in his prime, and Steff Graf was having her last truly dominant year. The Dallas Cowboys won the Super Bowl behind Troy Aikman, and the Chicago Bulls won the NBA championships behind Michael Jordan's comeback.

OK, all that aside, I wanted to look at Haas and his remaining peers - that is, players born in the late 70s. Here are the highest ranked players born in the 70s:

22. Ivo Karlovic (1979)
102. Radek Stepanek (1978)
150. Ruben Ramirez Hidalgo (1978)
455. Tommy Haas (1978)

There are a few others, but none in the top 500. Of interest, I was surprised to see that Younes El Aynaoui (born 1971!) has a single ATP point, due to the fact he played in a Futures in March - he actually won his first match, but then lost his second. He played in a Future last year, but before that his last match was 2010, when he played in Doha.

Now obviously Haas played all the guys of his generation, players born in the mid-to-late 70s like Corretja, Enqvist, Rios, Kuerten, Henman, etc. And of course he faced Sampras and Agassi. But I also wanted to offer a list of older players that he faced back in the 90s, to give a sense of just how long he's been around. Tommy Haas played Michael Stich, Petr Korda, Tomas Muster, Guy Forget, Magnus Gustafsson, and get this: Christian Ruud, Casper Ruud's father.

(That would be an interesting trivia question: how many players have faced both a father and son in a pro match? Haas hasn't faced Casper, as far as I know, but it might happen).

Actually, if you wanted to connect players back to older eras like "Six Degrees to Kevin Bacon," but instead maybe some number of degrees to Bill Tilden, which might be a fun topic in its own right, you could do worse than starting with Haas, then going to Forget (who went pro in 1982), and go from there....maybe another thread.

Anyhow, just fun to appreciate these last few holdouts. It is amazing how well Karlovic is still playing, considering he's 38. With his serve, I wouldn't be surprised if he hangs around into his 40s. And of course Radek Stepanek won't go away...but the difference between Karlovic/Stepanek and Haas is that whereas Ivo and Radek didn't reach the top 100 until 2002-03ish, Haas was in by 1997 and even reached the top 10 and won a title in the 1990s, at the end of 1999 (he finished that year at #11).

Anyhow, best of luck to Tommy this year. He's 2-5 so far, so the going is slow, but hopefully he can start picking up wins.
 

Front242

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Grass season is Tommy's best shot, Halle in particular. One of the few remaining all court players on tour and such a shame injuries destroyed his career. Great to watch when healthy. So much variety in his shot making like Federer. Full match of Haas v Djokovic Miami 2013 4th round below was a great recent-ish example of Tommy in full flow and healthy for once. Haas was still ancient and Novak was trounced 6-2 in the first set, losing 6-2 6-4.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH6Usd79dqY[/video]
 

El Dude

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I don't know about "destroyed," but I hear your point. Tommy didn't start dealing with injuries until late 2002, early 2003 - when he was 24-25 years old, so looking at his career before that gives a picture of his talent, although it does seem he was going to be a top 5 guy before misfortunate struck. From reading the Wikipedia entry, it sounds like it was first a serious car accident his parents had in 2002, then injury in 2003, that derailed his career. But if you take those away and project from 2002 forward, it looks like he was becoming a top 5, and 2003 would have likely been different with him in the mix for #1, but I'm not sure he would have done more than maybe win a Slam or two.
 

Front242

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He's had 9 surgeries to date which is Brian Baker territory. I'd definitely call that destroyed. He reached world number 2 and, as you say, could have easily remained a top 5 player but it was just injury after injury the whole time.
 

Kieran

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Tommy was badly affected by injuries, that much is obvious, but the guy was never gonna win big either, let's be clear on that one. A good description of him would be "a sheep in wolves clothing." Straw balls. But an entertaining player at times, no doubt about it.

Great OP Dude, btw...
 

El Dude

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I basically agree, Kieran. He might have won in that little window in 2003 when the tour was so balanced, with four or five guys all really close in the year-end rankings. He would have made that one more. But yeah, I don't think he was on the level of even Safin or Nalbandian in the talent department, and wouldn't have kept pace with Roger and Rafa once they pulled away from everyone else. If he had been more healthy, he could have possible won a couple more Masters and been in the Roddick/Davydenko category, but I think that's about it.
 

the AntiPusher

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Kieran said:
Tommy was badly affected by injuries, that much is obvious, but the guy was never gonna win big either, let's be clear on that one. A good description of him would be "a sheep in wolves clothing." Straw balls. But an entertaining player at times, no doubt about it.

Great OP Dude, btw...

Tommy 'a head was his biggest hindrance in his career. I have seen numerous of matches in majors especially when Tommy was clearly the best player on the court but somehow found a way to loose. E.g. RG 2009 vs Roger.
 

Front242

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Nah. That point Roger hit that changed the match was class. He didn't find a way to lose at all there. Roger took it from him. And I say that as a big Haas fan. But yes, I've seen him choke lots of matches in the past. That wasn't one of them though. Unless you think this gutsy saved break point was Tommy's fault. It clearly wasn't though. Just a fantastic inside out forehand. Same risky shots he's been hitting against Nadal and everyone else this year but flawlessly executed and well inside the line here.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhMSqJioE7Q[/video]

Great 720p 50fps upload of the whole match here.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeEYzp_QJSk[/video]
 

Kieran

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the AntiPusher said:
Kieran said:
Tommy was badly affected by injuries, that much is obvious, but the guy was never gonna win big either, let's be clear on that one. A good description of him would be "a sheep in wolves clothing." Straw balls. But an entertaining player at times, no doubt about it.

Great OP Dude, btw...

Tommy 'a head was his biggest hindrance in his career. I have seen numerous of matches in majors especially when Tommy was clearly the best player on the court but somehow found a way to loose. E.g. RG 2009 vs Roger.

Yeah, that was pure Tommy. You could almost smell it coming. First bit of resistance from Federer and Tommy dummied up. I remember when he was a youngster, playing a very early match in his career, I watched him and wondered what would become of him. I liked him, but there was something about him, almost like he was getting praised too early in his career, when to me it seemed he was a little vacant, a little lacking in fire. I like Haas, but only so far as it goes...
 

Front242

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LOL guys, I even posted the damn point. It was a clear winner from Roger and nothing Haas could do about it. :cover Funny how non fans "remember" something that never happened lol.
 

Kieran

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Front242 said:
LOL guys, I even posted the damn point. It was a clear winner from Roger and nothing Haas could do about it. :cover Funny how non fans "remember" something that never happened lol.

Buddy, you're drawing "current form" from one match - and a heroic failure outta one point?

It was a great shot by Federer. Thunderous collapse from TH...
 

Front242

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Kieran said:
Front242 said:
LOL guys, I even posted the damn point. It was a clear winner from Roger and nothing Haas could do about it. :cover Funny how non fans "remember" something that never happened lol.

Buddy, you're drawing "current form" from one match - and a heroic failure outta one point?

It was a great shot by Federer. Thunderous collapse from TH...

No to both. The current form you misinterpreted completely, same as most Nadal fans do with posts here actually. I said (correctly I might add) he's had a better year than Djokovic and leads him by 8 places in the race. Novak is currently at 23 and Nick is at 15. That clearly means he's scored more points this year because he's performed better taking all tournaments he's played added together. So, no, it was not based on 1 match. Re Haas, sure, he must've been seeing the finish line thinking he was gonna break for 5-3 and serve it out but Roger had other ideas and saved it with a great inside out forehand and started getting his game together.
 

Kieran

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Front242 said:
Kieran said:
Front242 said:
LOL guys, I even posted the damn point. It was a clear winner from Roger and nothing Haas could do about it. :cover Funny how non fans "remember" something that never happened lol.

Buddy, you're drawing "current form" from one match - and a heroic failure outta one point?

It was a great shot by Federer. Thunderous collapse from TH...

No to both. The current form you misinterpreted completely, same as most Nadal fans do with posts here actually. I said (correctly I might add) he's had a better year than Djokovic and leads him by 8 places in the race. Novak is currently at 23 and Nick is at 15. That clearly means he's scored more points this year because he's performed better taking all tournaments he's played added together. So, no, it was not based on 1 match.

Jeez bro, does your baby read your posts back to you? :lolz:

You actually said:

Front242 said:
Imo, Kyrgios would currently be the toughest opponent by far for Roger at Wimbledon based on current form and, in fact, he'd be the toughest for anyone else too.

And then when AP mentioned Djoker as a better bet, you said again about current form, then addressed the Djoker issue:

Front242 said:
Like I said, based on current form. Djokovic lost to Querrey last year and hasn't been anywhere close to the level from Kyrgios this year imo but of course things can change fast. Him telling the world he wants to fix his stamina could be his way of telling everyone he has a new dirty trick up his sleeve. Next few months will be telling.

Come on bro, I'm a good reader, try it yourself.

Front242 said:
Re Haas, sure, he must've been seeing the finish line thinking he was gonna break for 5-3 and serve it out but Roger had other ideas and saved it with a great inside out forehand and started getting his game together.

I remember I was sitting in Butlers cafe with the missus and I asked her, check the score, and she said Federer lost. And I didn't believe her - it was too soon, and I said, check again, just as she said, "oh wait, he's down two sets and it's on serve in the third."

And I said, "he ain't gonna lose to old Tommy Haas. You want a croissant with that cappuccino?"

And she said, "maybe an almond and pear tart." To which, I replied, "coming up."

You get a feeling watching matches. Haas is the kinda bloke who had a threshold, but once he was squeezed, that threshold was found to be very low. A lot of players are like that, especially in the Federer era, and the Missing Link era - the first point of resistance and they disappear. There's always been players like this,. mind, it's not a new thing.

But what I liked about Tommy in his recent years is his willingness to serve volley. Takes a lot of aggression, sharp reflexes and power in the legs. It's a young mans game, but he throws himself into it, a dinosaur in a uniform sport. Great to see he's still playing...
 

Front242

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Yes, Tommy is a great old school throwback. Unless you think I'm lying that Murray and Djokovic have sucked this year though then to 99.99% of people my post made perfect sense. No one has challenged the best player this year (Federer) more than Kyrgios.
 

Kieran

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Front242 said:
Yes, Tommy is a great old school throwback. Unless you think I'm lying that Murray and Djokovic have sucked this year though then to 99.99% of people my post made perfect sense. No one has challenged the best player this year (Federer) more than Kyrgios.

Come on bro, give it up. One match isn't "current form", and they've only played once. It hardly tells us anything about Wimbledon. And if it does, then give the trophy to Berdych, who, going by your criteria, is enjoying excellent "current form." :lolz:

I like Tommy for that reason, but I won't miss him. He's a player who worked hard but he never excited me , you know? Tommy always seemed doomed. He wasn't like other players who you'd stay in to watch...
 

Front242

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Berdych played well but that match was the 2nd worst Roger played at Miami. He was passive and not going after his shots against Bautista Agut and Berdych due to lack of days off between matches. He was clearly much better against Kyrgios. I already explained current form is taken as year to date in the race points btw. Not sure where the one match is coming onto this. I merely pointed out the level of Kyrgios is better than anything we've seen from Djokovic this year. He beat Novak twice consecutively this year in case you forgot.
 

Kieran

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Okay bro, if we leave aside the fact that you said, "Imo, Kyrgios would currently be the toughest opponent by far for Roger at Wimbledon based on current form and, in fact, he'd be the toughest for anyone else too", it's very clear that you were really referring to him having a great chance at Wimbo, based upon his play in a single match , which took place about 2 months before Wimbledon begins. Check. I geddit now...
 

GameSetAndMath

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I don't know why Nick is having a good year has become so contentious. Right now, Nick is at #15 in the race. If you look at the list above him, it has players like PCB, RBA, Ramos, Sock etc who we all know would not stand much of a chance at Wimbledon. The only interesting guy (from Wimby's point of view) from those ranked ahead of Nick in the race is Sasha.

Sasha has actually beaten Fed this year, although it is in Hopman cup and it was the first tourney for Fed after six months. I don't remember Sasha's matches at Wimbledon, in case he has played some. But, he may have trouble bending down and getting to low slices and shoe-string volleys due to his height. That may actually be stopping him from doing well in Wimby. Sasha has a good serve too, although not as good as Nick. In baseline play, I would probably rate Sasha as being better than Nick though. Also, these days in Wimbledon, you need to be having a decent base line game unlike in old times like 15 years ago.
 

Front242

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Kieran said:
Okay bro, if we leave aside the fact that you said, "Imo, Kyrgios would currently be the toughest opponent by far for Roger at Wimbledon based on current form and, in fact, he'd be the toughest for anyone else too", it's very clear that you were really referring to him having a great chance at Wimbo, based upon his play in a single match , which took place about 2 months before Wimbledon begins. Check. I geddit now...

It's got nothing to do with a single match. It's got to do with his form over the whole year so far AND his extremely powerful serve which is deadly on grass especially and I've already said this. He served 36 aces when he beat Nadal at Wimbledon 2014 and he's a much better player these days. That makes him a scary prospect on grass this year unless you'd like to pretend to us all here that you'd be comfortable if Nadal were facing him there. I certainly wouldn't be. Same applies for him playing anyone else for that matter, with the possible exception of Murray who he seems to match up badly against.
 

El Dude

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Kieran, this is just getting weird. Not sure why you are tripping about this supposed idea of Kyrgios in one match. The guy has played very well in a bunch of matches, including beating Novak twice. Not sure why it is such a weird idea to project him doing very well at Wimbledon, even being a darkhorse candidate to win it.