Brexit

[Federberg]

^If that happens then Labour is going to be out of power for at least the next electoral cycle

 

[britbox]

This is kind of ironic:

 

[Mary]

^If that happens then Labour is going to be out of power for at least the next electoral cycle

Yes - but to me I would rather see a smaller party with a genuine ideology than a party dominated by Blairites who have no respect for party members. And voting with a central party plus the SNP on key issues could be very effective. The interesting thing is where the current membership would sit and what the Unions would do. In the meantime the NEC have a lot of power. Interesting to see how it all falls out.

 

[Federberg]

^Interesting, your stance confirms this article...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/11/theresa-may-tories-power-labour

Tories are in it to win it, first and foremost

 

[Mary]

It's a good article.
The way I see it the next four years are going to be all about Brexit negotiation and the economy. I would like to see a socialist influence obviously but would rather see the Tories carry the can! Meanwhile Labour can regroup and hopefully build on the feelings of alienation identified in the referendum. The big social issues cannot be ignored by any party and maybe May has given the nod to this.
I think the worst scenarios for labour are attempts to put a bit of sticking plaster on what was a rumbling appendix and is now a ruptured one or sweeping aside party members views and going for a leader from the PLP rebels who could not unite the party. If they do that they are doomed to go through all this again in 4 years or even sooner.

PS - off topic. Ronnie O'Sullivan has written a thriller called Framed, due in Nov. Draws on his knowledge of London crime scene, father's links with Krays I guess!

 

[Federberg]

'You're probably right, amputate the wound now. But I warn you, Theresa May looks fearsomely competent and could well steal a lot of the centre ground that Labour might have wanted to occupy. England continues to be a predominantly conservative country. History might not be kind to Cameron if Scotland separates, which looks likely. But if that happens, I can't see how the Labour party will be able to challenge the Tory's again. They need those Scottish votes

 

[Mary]

'You're probably right, amputate the wound now. But I warn you, Theresa May looks fearsomely competent and could well steal a lot of the centre ground that Labour might have wanted to occupy. England continues to be a predominantly conservative country. History might not be kind to Cameron if Scotland separates, which looks likely. But if that happens, I can't see how the Labour party will be able to challenge the Tory's again. They need those Scottish votes

They need them now but haven't got them anyway. And May could take the centre ground regardless. Labour can never be an effective power in or out of office with the present divisions. Blair made it work for a time but Labour lost a massive number of members during his time and look how it ended. I think that Blair cabinet suffered from Group think like Thatcher's did at the end.
Now so much depends on how our economy does outside the EU. If it's bad I think Labour could gain ground.
I still can't see how an independent Scotland could work - boundaries, currency etc.C an you?

 

[Federberg]

They need them now but haven't got them anyway. And May could take the centre ground regardless. Labour can never be an effective power in or out of office with the present divisions. Blair made it work for a time but Labour lost a massive number of members during his time and look how it ended. I think that Blair cabinet suffered from Group think like Thatcher's did at the end.
Now so much depends on how our economy does outside the EU. If it's bad I think Labour could gain ground.
I still can't see how an independent Scotland could work - boundaries, currency etc.C an you?

Well.. if they have their way their currency will be the euro, God bless them! @britbox and I are in total agreement on one thing, stay away from the euro!

Scotland is theoretically viable as an independent country. It would by no means be the smallest country in the EU. The difficulty they'll face is that Spain, for one, will not want to allow them to join. If they do, then why would the Catalan's not try again to go their own way. It's going to be an interesting decade ahead

 

[Federberg]

Interesting cabinet choices. Boris for Foreign Secretary!?? On the face of it, it seems crazy, but I think there's a bit of malicious genius in it. If he messes up he's got no one else to blame but himself.

But at the end of the day, Boris can actually be very charming, but he's clearly extremely smart with a bit of steel in him as well. Frankly, I don't think it's a bad thing to have a Foreign Secretary willing to stand up to the USA

 

[Federberg]

 

[Mary]

Sometimes I think MPs are in a parallel universe - or maybe I am!
She may be passing on the poisoned chalice I am convinced is there. Or she thinks he'll get on well with Trump! Or may be she thinks he's pissed off Europe but why stop - there's a big world out there!

Labour split looks ever more likely to me.

 

[Federberg]

Sometimes I think MPs are in a parallel universe - or maybe I am!
She may be passing on the poisoned chalice I am convinced is there. Or she thinks he'll get on well with Trump! Or may be she thinks he's pissed off Europe but why stop - there's a big world out there!

Labour split looks ever more likely to me.

Yes I don't see any way around it. They should just get it over and done with. The longer they wait the more damaging it will be. Need to be ruthless and decisive like the Tories

 

[britbox]

Interesting cabinet choices. Boris for Foreign Secretary!?? On the face of it, it seems crazy, but I think there's a bit of malicious genius in it. If he messes up he's got no one else to blame but himself.

But at the end of the day, Boris can actually be very charming, but he's clearly extremely smart with a bit of steel in him as well. Frankly, I don't think it's a bad thing to have a Foreign Secretary willing to stand up to the USA

Glad to see David Davis return to the cabinet... I'm actually liking quite a few of the cabinet picks... much more diversity over the Old Etonian club that seemed to dominate previously.

 

[Federberg]

^yes agreed

 

[teddytennisfan]

just want to say;;

congrats -- CONGRATS PEOPLE OF BRITAIN for voting brexit.

like i said -- although only MY perspective you DON'T NEED EU . EU as it is -- as an arm , an administrative arm of USA EMPIRE that has colonized EU since after the second world war and USED britain as the 'TROJAN HORSE VOTE" inside EU to introduce and impose AMERICAN WALL STREET AND MILITARY control -- make no mistake about that folks --

including the erasure of BORDERS (that GEORGE SOROS AND THE ROTSCHILDS love so much so their KIND can move people willy nilly just the way they LIKE like rats in a maze) -

was NEVER good for ANY of the countries of europe.

just look at europe -- all your centuries of strife and rivalries -- that had arrived at SOME high degree of co-existence and peace --

and prosperity -- all going down the drain --

UNDER THE AMERICAN PRESCRIPTIONS OF ''unity" -- named

'EU/NATO"

and so -- what did you GET?

ENSLAVEMENT to america's ULTIMATE GOAL OF PUSHING TTIP upon ALL OF YOU!!


LOL.

SO -- BREXIT has put a STOP -- for now -- on that TTIP which IS the USA'S REAL intent to FINALLY AND COMPLETELY REMOVE the sovereignty of european countries from themselves

and enslave ALL of you -- just like it tries in asia with TPP -- (Also having a hard time being accepted by asians as they see what it REALLY is about) --

with the ''PRIVATE ARBITRATION COURTS" RULED BY WASHINGTON AND WALL STREET.

that removes ALL the rights you europeans EVER had !

as dictated by WALL STREET AND AMERICAN CORPORATIONS.


if YOU don't see that -- you are FOOLS.

 

[teddytennisfan]

I think anybody who voted Brexit should have been well aware that there was going to be short term economic pain.... bound to happen... question is whether people have the stomach to see it out. People who voted out panicking a week after the result is kind of silly. What Cameron has done though by not invoking Article 50 is to breed uncertainty and to leave the UK in limbo. Markets don't like uncertainty... investors don't like uncertainty...

FUCK THE MARKETS...they are what exactly?

namelesss faceless ''investors" who run around parking their money for the greatest short term gain nevermind what it means to entire populations from the way the ''market" moves their money around.


of course there is always going to be short term pain in adjustments...but far more important than THAT is for BRITAIN to regain her independence from BRUSSELS which is an administrative arm of WALL STREET, PENTAGON AND USA CIA ..colonizing europe!

now -- do you folks understand what YOUR USE for WASHINGTON REALLY HAS BEEN ALL THESE DECADES?

lol.

 

[teddytennisfan]

It is so easy to manipulate the masses. So there is a chance that they will vote again once the powerful few scare people enough to not vote for exit? That is a popular tactic to mess with ordinary people's minds. If this happened in Russia, the West would call the referendum a fraud.

exactly -- you are a TRUE SLAV -- !!

now that i have visited russia -- st petersburg and seen for myself how russians really ARE...

IT is confirmed to me that the western media and poltical talk about the ''aggressive, threatening russians" is ALL A LIE.

russians are peaceful - coexisting with each other in unbelievably MIXES of races -- all the way from the far east with mongoloid features mixed with slavs or pure blondes or darker hued - and ALL are RUSSIANS who are AMUSED at how the west keeps painting them as ''threat" when in fact EVERYONE KNOWS it is the WEST AND NATO that is threatening russia !!

lol.

the russians i have come to know -- who are warm and so friendly and so helpful (and i am asian by the way although i was coming from having lived int he USA for decades) -

have nothing but PITY for the other slavs in eastern europe who have become ENSLAVED by the AMERICANS.

they kept telling me when i asked :\
"we feel so bad for them -- the serbs, the monetenegrins, the polish even with their hatred of us, the ukrainians, for they are OUR cousins with whom we always shared culture and religion and customs , we would like to help them but we can not force them to make their choices we really are ONE people ".

 

[britbox]

FUCK THE MARKETS...they are what exactly?

namelesss faceless ''investors" who run around parking their money for the greatest short term gain nevermind what it means to entire populations from the way the ''market" moves their money around.


of course there is always going to be short term pain in adjustments...but far more important than THAT is for BRITAIN to regain her independence from BRUSSELS which is an administrative arm of WALL STREET, PENTAGON AND USA CIA ..colonizing europe!

now -- do you folks understand what YOUR USE for WASHINGTON REALLY HAS BEEN ALL THESE DECADES?

lol.

I don't think the EU is an administrative arm of the US... I think the US preferred the UK to stay in the EU because they had more of a direct line via the UK into the institution... that was largely why DeGaulle blocked the UK from joining for years because he considered them almost a 51st state or at best "too close" to the United States.

Of course, that isn't to say the EU isn't heavily influenced by the US, as is the UK (because they are)- and even as a decaying empire, the US is still right now the most powerful economic and military power on the planet.... Of course they have a large influence... even with countries who they are not allied with and share no ideology with. Still, I think there will be a major shift this century... the current status quo is not sustainable. It would only take a collapse in the petro-dollar and the world order as you know it changes.

 

[Federberg]

^It will take more than that mate. The US dominates, economically, culturally and militarily. Not sure there's any viable challenger on the horizon. As for petro-dollars? Did you know that the US has just started exporting gas to the Middle East? Turn and turn about...

 

[EdbergsGhost]

^It will take more than that mate. The US dominates, economically, culturally and militarily. Not sure there's any viable challenger on the horizon. As for petro-dollars? Did you know that the US has just started exporting gas to the Middle East? Turn and turn about...

The Marcellus Shale Formation in the northeast United States has 141 trillion cubic feet of recoverable natural gas. Add that to what's in the Dakota's and potentially offshore, things aren't that dim for the USA yet. The 19 trillion dollar national debt is rather untenable and needs to be addressed quickly.