Brexit

[britbox]

Like the lyrics to "The Clash".... "Should I stay or should I go now?"

Should the UK exit the EU or should it stay?

Any thoughts @Federberg @Jammymich @danbrusca @JesuslookslikeBorg @Glenys -@Rides if you are interested of course

Other opinions welcomed, just I know these are fellow brits.

 

[Federberg]

I don't see any rational reason to leave personally. The ideal thing to happen would be a close win for the "ins" because that should give Cameron a bit more leverage to get things changed. It's ironic because most of the things that we all have an issue with in the EU aren't specific to the UK. Everyone else would benefit from more considered legislation. The frustration at the moment is that legislation gets passed that limits competition and the Northern countries tend to be more compliant. The laws stifle competition and tend to benefit those countries that are reluctant to get their house in order. The simple fact is that the UK is too small to go its own way and everyone knows it. Obama was spot on with his comments but the Brexiters didn't like it

 

[teddytennisfan]

Like the lyrics to "The Clash".... "Should I stay or should I go now?"

Should the UK exit the EU or should it stay?

Any thoughts @Federberg @Jammymich @danbrusca @JesuslookslikeBorg @Glenys -@Rides if you are interested of course

Other opinions welcomed, just I know these are fellow brits.

the question for BRITS is this:

whether it is about being in the EU - you all already know the costs and what LITTLE you really get in return...

or what the PURPOSE of EU really is. and WHO EU , run from unelected BRUSSELS,

REALLY SERVES.

unless you -- BRITS common folk -- understand and ADMIT that the EU LIKE NATO --

ARE ARMS OF THE UNITED STATES to control europe through "one administrative body" (easier when everyone is forced to go under one set of rules - ALSO influenced and run and in imitation of the Capital across the Potomac) ..

you do not understand who EU, WHO NATO, WHO BRITAIN "under EU rules"

REALLY SERVES...and that is the USA.

you've ALL been invaded by the USA.

ROFLMAO...

you just never really understand it completely.

therefore -- your own politicans -- who are SERVANTS of WASHINGTON ...

are being influenced -- and through them - YOU the ordinary brits

by YOUR OWN FORMER COLONY USA --

WHO ARE your real rulers (with the connivance of course, of your own privleged classes) .

WHY does obama - and after him HILLARY - (SHE'S GONNA GET IT -- that's already the way the USA ''democracy" works) -

insist and even ''talk to the british people" about the ''dangers of leaving EU?"

DO YOU REALLY THINK IT has anything to do wiht ORDINARY BRITS? NO..IT IS ABOUT THIS:

THE BRITISH role within EU -- is and can be a very powerful ''vote" inside EU - AND is a way to ensure the USA has a ''WHIP MASTER" OVER EU by way of BRITAIN under the control of the USA.
AND THAT WAY -- SUCH things as THE USA pushes on the rest of EUROPE

IMF rules, sanctions against any country , wars, invasions, bringing more ''troop contributions" to what are essentially AMERICAN wars -- regulations, rules WRITTEN IN WASHINGTON AND WALL STREET passed off as ''EU laws" --

THE monopoly of SEEDS and FOOD over eu through MONSANTO, CARGILL..etc...the capture of the EU ''consumer market" under AMERICAN chamber of commerce 'RULES' --

ARE PUT IN EFFECT, Far more effectively, more efficiently, more swiftly THROUGH AN ADMINISTRATIVE BODY called "eu'' IN brussels...with the hand[picked american stooges such as JUNCKER, POLAND'S TUSK, STOLTENBERG (for Nato) , etc...

and the sovereign states of europe when BOUND by ''one set of rules" RUN FROM WASHINGTON throguh ''EU" (WHICH washington has HIJACKED WITH ITS LOBBYISTS, LAWYERS, DIPLOMATS, ETC) --

ENSURES -- ALL OF EUROPE ARE EFFECTIVELY IMPRISONED to do what the USA wishes.

you don't believe me?

LOOK AROUND YOU -- all the things the europeans are now suffering from...

ARE THE DIRECT RESULT of AMERICAN policies over the decades -- ''prescriptions" whose consequences you are all now harvesting...and tha'ts JUST the TIP of the iceberg of what's in store for eu AND its separate countries ''UNDER ONE RULE"

BEFORE THE USA - SOROS, BRZEZINSKI, ALBRIGHT, KERRY, BILL GATES, MONSANTO,

US ''courts of law" ARE DONE WITH ALL OF YOU EUROPEANS.

YOU simply do not understand -- or ADMIT - is more likely -- that your REAL ENEMY you allowed in your own midst.

it is called THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA that has INVADED you all - without your even realizing it - thinking it is your ''leader in democracy and freedom and justice and civilization"

when , in fact -- it is - as SIGMUND FREUD SAID:

"nothing but a NATION OF WEALTHY SAVAGES upon whom we have allowed ourselves to become materially dependent -- but it remains, nonetheless a MISTAKE - -- A GIGANTIC MISTAKE of a nation:".


that's what you all get for thinking the AMERICANS are actually your ''friends" just because BRITAIN created the USA. or it is a ''WESTERN" ''civilization" like you think yourselves to be.

roflmao.........

so -- STAY in EU -- as the USA'S leading ''whip master" but yourselves - BRITISH PEOPLE?

JUST UNDERSTAND YOU ARE SLAVES OF AMERICA -- your own spawn.

lol.

 

[teddytennisfan]

the british people -- who responded to OBAMA'S LECTURING THEM to ''stay in EU, VOTE YES TO EU"

ARE THE CORRECT ONES. THEY UNDERSTAND that whether under EU OR independent of EU -- british people are controlled THROUGH their government and elites -- BY the USA NEO-CON, NE0-LIBERALS AND CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE ..and USA - ''INSPIRED" ''laws" - ...

THEY ARE the correct ones when they responded to OBAMA'S BIG TALK:

"OBAMA keep your opinion to yourself! ".

EU - just like NATO -- are extensions of AMERICAN EMPIRE.

that's the bottom line.

british people REALLY want to an independent people?

get the hell out of EU , NATO AND from under USA ''influence" and THEN the british people can deal with countries on one on one meetings as they see fit without having to ask PERMISSION or approval from EU or USA.

 

[teddytennisfan]

I don't see any rational reason to leave personally. The ideal thing to happen would be a close win for the "ins" because that should give Cameron a bit more leverage to get things changed. It's ironic because most of the things that we all have an issue with in the EU aren't specific to the UK. Everyone else would benefit from more considered legislation. The frustration at the moment is that legislation gets passed that limits competition and the Northern countries tend to be more compliant. The laws stifle competition and tend to benefit those countries that are reluctant to get their house in order. The simple fact is that the UK is too small to go its own way and everyone knows it. Obama was spot on with his comments but the Brexiters didn't like it

UK is '''too small to go it alone?"

UK can not make its own decisions as to how to trade with , for example AUSTRIA outside of any EU ''rules" that are really run from washington? (eu rules are COPIES of the washington neo-liberal policies, unless most of you don't GET IT YET).

UK is too small that it can not make trade agreements on its own as a sovereign country without having the permission or approval of EU (washington)

to sell and buy with poland, or germany, or russia, or china or africa on its own?
UK is too small to deal in industries one on one according to UK SELF INTERESTS with any other country on earth ?

ICELAND is small - it acts more independently and it ain't exactly sinking into the atlantic, u know...(in fact -- they're about to create a sovereign credit currency ) -

you've gotten used to and become comfortable with being enslaved by EU(WASHINGTON) ''rules" - that's what.

it's called 'loving one's own enslavement" . to big bro usa. think you have ''security" that way -- when in fact you - ordinary brits are being plundered in your pockets by the USA TREASURY that runs BRUSSELS and through it -- the 'EU RULES"

to require EU countries to SPEND MORE in order to give advantage to AMERICAN CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE AND NATO (the american military arm OVER EU in the scam called "'defending eu") -

that you all just don't GET!

ROFLMAO.

WHAT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IS -- ALL OF YOU in europe -- are being made to SPEND BY THE USA -- for the privilege of being the USA'S SLAVES!

hahahaha....keep at it, folks -- and you;ll soon enough see the FRUITS of your own stupidity for lying down with your MASTER UNCLE SAM.

 

[teddytennisfan]

RUSSIA TODAY


HomeUK
Even the British govt’s own TTIP assessment says US-EU deal has ‘lots of risks and no benefit’
Published time: 25 Apr, 2016 16:17

Protesters wear masks of U.S. President Barack Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel as they demonstrate against Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) free trade agreement before the opening ceremony of the Hannover Messe in Hanover, Germany April 24, 2016. © Kai Pfaffenbach / Reuters
332
The British government’s sole assessment of the shadowy Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) deal indicates there are “lots of risks and no benefit,” according to documents seen by Global Justice Now.
In February a freedom of information (FoI) request was made to the Department for Business Innovation and Skills (BIS) to find out whether risk assessments had been carried out in relation to the secretive deal, which is currently in its 13th round of negotiations.

The BIS reported that the only assessment had been carried out by the London School of Economics (LSE), which found “little reason” to believe the “EU-US investment chapter” – as the deal is sometimes called – would give the UK significant political or economic benefits.

The report also examined the issue of secret courts, where investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) proceedings would allow US firms to sue national governments.

The authors argue that “we would expect an EU-US investment chapter to be regularly invoked by US investors against the UK for governmental actions that would normally not be challengeable under UK law.”

Global Justice Now director Nick Dearden gave a withering assessment of the deal and of the government’s analysis of it.

He called it “staggering” that that government was pushing the UK into a system of “secret corporate courts under TTIP” with “almost no assessment of what the risks are for our policy makers or the taxpayer.”

“What’s even worse is that the one assessment that the government has commissioned shows that there are lots of risks and no benefit.”

The “toxic trade deal” promises “harmful consequences for ordinary people, and new powers and privileges for corporate elites,” Dearden added

 

[teddytennisfan]

I don't see any rational reason to leave personally. The ideal thing to happen would be a close win for the "ins" because that should give Cameron a bit more leverage to get things changed. It's ironic because most of the things that we all have an issue with in the EU aren't specific to the UK. Everyone else would benefit from more considered legislation. The frustration at the moment is that legislation gets passed that limits competition and the Northern countries tend to be more compliant. The laws stifle competition and tend to benefit those countries that are reluctant to get their house in order. The simple fact is that the UK is too small to go its own way and everyone knows it. Obama was spot on with his comments but the Brexiters didn't like it

hi FEDERBERG....

OBAMA AND USA chambers of commerce and US INVESTORS have a very nice gift for you all with TTIP...u know -- the DEAL that OBAMA is really interested to PUSH THROUGH

EUROPEAN UNITY? ...yup...

ENJOY -- and once SIGNED by cameron and company -- ensuring YOU the ordinary brits WILL be subjects of the AMERICAN INVESTORS who can SUE your entire government , and inf act your LOCAL communities -- if that is a better way to make you understand what's in store for you --

should YOUR ''independent UK" -- EVER PASS LAWS TO PROTECT BRITISH WAGES, PENSIONS, JOBS, ENVIRONMENT etc...

that ''harm the interests and profits of american investors"..

IN ''action suits" that go ABOVE the sovereign laws of your own british nation to be heard and ''decided" BY PRIVATE ARBITRATION COURTS IN THE USA -- who OF COURSE are on the board (in fact the ones who helped write TTIP) -

AS TO ADVANCING the ''shareholder interests" of american investors and corporations ABOVE the citizens AND sovereignty of people whose governments are STUPID ENOUGH or corrupt and callous enough to SELL OUT THEIR OWN people to OBAMA'S american corporate masters...

roflmao...it would , in some ways, a measure of GREAT BRITAIN feeling the REAL force of the FRANKENSTEIN monster THE british empire itself CREATED.

i know it is futile to change your minds -- and i have no illusions about that -- but

jsut don't say later -- i didn't tell you so.

wha tyou have TO FEAR is NOT ...brexit.

it is TTIP written in the secrecy of the halls of power of the USA OVER YOUR HEADS in your own homes .

so - go ahead -- subject yourselves to the SPAWN of BRITAIN - USA - and its ''investors and shareholders" and see where THAT gets you...

as obama smiles his SNAKE OIL SALES MAN smile for his corporate masters of the USA.

that about sums up what TTIP is about.

so -- al i can say is - ENJOY what USA has in store for you all -- you INDEPENDENT BRITS.

too bad -- because I REALLY rather like the BRITS, actually. but i you prefer to be SOLD DOWN THE RIVER THAMES all the way to MISSISSIPPE AND POTOMAC for US shareholders and investors to OWN you...

hey -- that's YOUR CHOICE..SO STAY IN BREXIT -- get that TTIP OBAMA IS PUSHING SO HARD FOR onto unsuspecting (or really powerless) populations through their conniving governments and see where that gets you.

but i can tell you THIS;

a FEW asian countries DID sign up to the ''pacific version -- "

and the most important parts when shown -- AFTER SIGNING -- indeed confirmed that US INVESTORS AND SHAREHOLDERS HAVE MORE RIGHTS than SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES and their peoples -- -- stipulating that governments are NOT ALLOWED to pass laws that protect wages, pensions, make laws that PREVENT the US investors from raking in as MUCH PROFIT as possible from trade deals at the expsense of local economies --

a few governments are NOW trying to get OUT of the deal....

AND THAT of course is onlyu based ojn merely the LEAKED parts that the USA REFUSES TO SHOW EVEN TO THE GOVERNMENTS in full - until

"3 years after signing" by which time it is SURE that the calculations of the USA have already ENSURED that economies are COMPLETELY CHAINED to the ''LAWS" OF AMERICAN CORPORATIONS AND INVESTOR ''interests" to the detriment of their populations.

so -- you WANT TO FIND OUT how that goes down the ROAD for teh children of BRITAIN?

GO AHEEEEAAADDDDD SIGN UP WITH THE USA AND OBAMA AND TIPP AND DO SO by REMAINING IN EU ...

 

[britbox]

I don't see any rational reason to leave personally. The ideal thing to happen would be a close win for the "ins" because that should give Cameron a bit more leverage to get things changed. It's ironic because most of the things that we all have an issue with in the EU aren't specific to the UK. Everyone else would benefit from more considered legislation. The frustration at the moment is that legislation gets passed that limits competition and the Northern countries tend to be more compliant. The laws stifle competition and tend to benefit those countries that are reluctant to get their house in order. The simple fact is that the UK is too small to go its own way and everyone knows it. Obama was spot on with his comments but the Brexiters didn't like it

I don't think Obama was spot on at all... and I think his comments will do more damage for the "stay in" argument than good. First he talks in the persona of being "our great friend and ally" and then in the next sentence says that Britain will go the back of the queue in any trade talks if they vote to exit the EU.... Some "great friend"...

Anyway, it's not about "friendship"... As Henry Kissinger was famously quoted: "America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests."

It's in the United States interests for the UK to be in the EU... it gives them a proxy seat at the table.

@Federberg... Cameron has NO leverage to get things changed if the UK vote to stay in. The leverage was the threat of leaving... and he walked away empty handed from the "renegotiation".

Now the arguments for the "Stay In" vote are largely about economic oblivion if we leave.... But I'll ask you this - Why would the EU refuse to trade with Britain when they are a net beneficiary? Will the likes of Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes stop exporting cars to the UK? Of course they won't.

Size isn't a factor either... Norway and Switzerland are doing just fine. If Iceland was in the EU, they would have been ruined by the EU. They didn't give in to the bankers... didn't have their people financially hamstrung to the banks for the rest of their lives... They let the banks fall and jailed the perpetrators for their actions. Plenty of countries don't belong to a vast trading block like the EU and do just fine... Australia being one... they form their own trading agreements.

The EU is vast inefficient, bureaucratic mess with a lack of transparency and democracy.

If you vote out @Federberg you will no doubt get asked the question again, every 6-10 years about going back in.... If you vote to stay in then you'll never get asked the question again in your lifetime.

I'd vote out and if it doesn't work out then the UK would be welcomed back in with open arms... but at least by then you will have seen the next banking bubble burst and the ramifications in the meantime and be able to make a more informed choice next time around.

 

[Federberg]

I don't think Obama was spot on at all... and I think his comments will do more damage for the "stay in" argument than good. First he talks in the persona of being "our great friend and ally" and then in the next sentence says that Britain will go the back of the queue in any trade talks if they vote to exit the EU.... Some "great friend"...

Anyway, it's not about "friendship"... As Henry Kissinger was famously quoted: "America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests."

It's in the United States interests for the UK to be in the EU... it gives them a proxy seat at the table.

@Federberg... Cameron has NO leverage to get things changed if the UK vote to stay in. The leverage was the threat of leaving... and he walked away empty handed from the "renegotiation".

Now the arguments for the "Stay In" vote are largely about economic oblivion if we leave.... But I'll ask you this - Why would the EU refuse to trade with Britain when they are a net beneficiary? Will the likes of Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes stop exporting cars to the UK? Of course they won't.

Size isn't a factor either... Norway and Switzerland are doing just fine. If Iceland was in the EU, they would have been ruined by the EU. They didn't give in to the bankers... didn't have their people financially hamstrung to the banks for the rest of their lives... They let the banks fall and jailed the perpetrators for their actions. Plenty of countries don't belong to a vast trading block like the EU and do just fine... Australia being one... they form their own trading agreements.

The EU is vast inefficient, bureaucratic mess with a lack of transparency and democracy.

If you vote out @Federberg you will no doubt get asked the question again, every 6-10 years about going back in.... If you vote to stay in then you'll never get asked the question again in your lifetime.

I'd vote out and if it doesn't work out then the UK would be welcomed back in with open arms... but at least by then you will have seen the next banking bubble burst and the ramifications in the meantime and be able to make a more informed choice next time around.

We'll agree to disagree

Yes for sure the special relationship is just a sop for the British media and politicians, the UK and US will always be closely tied together when it comes to intelligence and military stuff. But as for the size issue, yes the UK is too small. It's in the unfortunate position of being a large economy in the EU context, but relatively small in global terms. Don't think for a moment that Norway and Switzerland have much say in the rules that govern the EEA. They don't. But it matters less for them as they are small economies. It will be far more impactful on the UK, particularly with respect to the financial services sector. Quite apart from the risk of a large group of investment banks moving their European headquarters to Frankfurt, the UK will be negatively impacted by EU financial services legislation with very little influence on them once the UK votes out. That might not be a big deal to some people, but it will be when we suffer the consequences of that. As for Obama's comment about the UK being at the back of the queue, that's just common sense. If anyone really thinks the United States is going to put negotiations with a $2trn economy ahead of a $10trn trade block (which also has a higher propensity to export because Germany is in amongst them) then they're wrong.

As for the leverage issue, Cameron didn't have a leg to stand on because of the way the EU works. They make the same political calculation before every crisis and they could pay for it this time. You only have to look at the near disaster (and still could be) with Greece. The bureaucrats in Brussels were far more comfortable encouraging a crisis to happen to secure better terms against the Greeks, than prevent it from occurring in the first place. With Cameron they preferred to risk a UK exit rather than accede to his reasonable demands. The EU has a history of employing tactical crises to force resolutions to major issues. Their weakness in this case has been an inability to properly consider the existential threat a UK exit could provoke.

For my part, at the very moment when the world is forming politico-economic blocs a bunch of little-Englanders are trying to go it alone. It makes no sense to me

 

[britbox]

We'll agree to disagree

Yes for sure the special relationship is just a sop for the British media and politicians, the UK and US will always be closely tied together when it comes to intelligence and military stuff. But as for the size issue, yes the UK is too small. It's in the unfortunate position of being a large economy in the EU context, but relatively small in global terms. Don't think for a moment that Norway and Switzerland have much say in the rules that govern the EEA. They don't. But it matters less for them as they are small economies. It will be far more impactful on the UK, particularly with respect to the financial services sector. Quite apart from the risk of a large group of investment banks moving their European headquarters to Frankfurt, the UK will be negatively impacted by EU financial services legislation with very little influence on them once the UK votes out. That might not be a big deal to some people, but it will be when we suffer the consequences of that. As for Obama's comment about the UK being at the back of the queue, that's just common sense. If anyone really thinks the United States is going to put negotiations with a $2trn economy ahead of a $10trn trade block (which also has a higher propensity to export because Germany is in amongst them) then they're wrong.

As for the leverage issue, Cameron didn't have a leg to stand on because of the way the EU works. They make the same political calculation before every crisis and they could pay for it this time. You only have to look at the near disaster (and still could be) with Greece. The bureaucrats in Brussels were far more comfortable encouraging a crisis to happen to secure better terms against the Greeks, than prevent it from occurring in the first place. With Cameron they preferred to risk a UK exit rather than accede to his reasonable demands. The EU has a history of employing tactical crises to force resolutions to major issues. Their weakness in this case has been an inability to properly consider the existential threat a UK exit could provoke.

For my part, at the very moment when the world is forming politico-economic blocs a bunch of little-Englanders are trying to go it alone. It makes no sense to me

I'm not saying that the UK should be before the EU in any trade agreement talks with the US and wouldn't expect them to be... but on that subject why do people believe a free trade agreement is good anyway? It's good for huge global businesses and elites because they then basically own the countries involved... and these "trade agreements" will override any sovereign rules that the peoples of those countries are able to change.

The banksters own Greece. Right? Portugal? Spain? Italy? Maybe not lock stock and barrel but they aren't far away.

It's a pack of cards waiting to collapse... and the little "Ingerlanders" is a bit weak mate... some would rather a more localised input into their governers.... and we've seen different cultures merged into "bigger states" plenty of times and ultimately they always fail and revert back to seek more local control and independence.

 

[Federberg]

I'm not saying that the UK should be before the EU in any trade agreement talks with the US and wouldn't expect them to be... but on that subject why do people believe a free trade agreement is good anyway? It's good for huge global businesses and elites because they then basically own the countries involved... and these "trade agreements" will override any sovereign rules that the peoples of those countries are able to change.

The banksters own Greece. Right? Portugal? Spain? Italy? Maybe not lock stock and barrel but they aren't far away.

It's a pack of cards waiting to collapse... and the little "Ingerlanders" is a bit weak mate... some would rather a more localised input into their governers.... and we've seen different cultures merged into "bigger states" plenty of times and ultimately they always fail and revert back to seek more local control and independence.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but for sure Greece should pay what they owe. You can't have a country lying for decades about their economic data getting away scot free and dumping the debt on other working people. I accept that there's a great deal of push back now on global trade agreements, but the problem is not the trade deals themselves. It's the politicians that have abdicated their responsibilities to help their societies adjust properly to a new world order that I hold in contempt. Rather than implement policies for the betterment of the disenfranchised they have allowed a plutocracy to win gains on both sides. That's why Trump is doing so well, and why Corbyn is leader of the Labour party. Someone needs to stand up for what used to be the middle class

 

[britbox]

Disagree... many of the trade deals put greater power in the hands of huge corporate entities and override sovereign interests... that's why there is so much secrecy about them. As you are porbably aware, Goldman Sachs played a pretty large role in the Greek disaster... for the benefit of Goldman Sachs. Not to say, the government of Greece wasn't largely responsible either though.

The EU wasn't good for Greece and Greece isn't good for the EU. Greece would be far better bankrupting itself as with a 300 billion + debt, there is no way back for it in the current framework.

 

[teddytennisfan]

We'll agree to disagree

Yes for sure the special relationship is just a sop for the British media and politicians, the UK and US will always be closely tied together when it comes to intelligence and military stuff. But as for the size issue, yes the UK is too small. It's in the unfortunate position of being a large economy in the EU context, but relatively small in global terms. Don't think for a moment that Norway and Switzerland have much say in the rules that govern the EEA. They don't. But it matters less for them as they are small economies. It will be far more impactful on the UK, particularly with respect to the financial services sector. Quite apart from the risk of a large group of investment banks moving their European headquarters to Frankfurt, the UK will be negatively impacted by EU financial services legislation with very little influence on them once the UK votes out. That might not be a big deal to some people, but it will be when we suffer the consequences of that. As for Obama's comment about the UK being at the back of the queue, that's just common sense. If anyone really thinks the United States is going to put negotiations with a $2trn economy ahead of a $10trn trade block (which also has a higher propensity to export because Germany is in amongst them) then they're wrong.

As for the leverage issue, Cameron didn't have a leg to stand on because of the way the EU works. They make the same political calculation before every crisis and they could pay for it this time. You only have to look at the near disaster (and still could be) with Greece. The bureaucrats in Brussels were far more comfortable encouraging a crisis to happen to secure better terms against the Greeks, than prevent it from occurring in the first place. With Cameron they preferred to risk a UK exit rather than accede to his reasonable demands. The EU has a history of employing tactical crises to force resolutions to major issues. Their weakness in this case has been an inability to properly consider the existential threat a UK exit could provoke.

For my part, at the very moment when the world is forming politico-economic blocs a bunch of little-Englanders are trying to go it alone. It makes no sense to me

oh no -- in that you are very wrong FEDERBERG.

obama is the water boy for his corporate masters - and particularly like the veyr, very few 'real powers" behind it all _one of them in fact BRITISH -- who aren't exactl british anyway -- but more like what people say "TRIBE" OR 'KHAZARS" -- the ROTHSCHILDS -- who are the kind of people who ''morph" themselves into any kind of 'culture' for generations but their only real ''loyalty" is to MONEY...these are the real MONEY PRINTERS

the ''father" of this particular family went generations ago when he found london such a commodious place to do his 'KHAZAR" Business (these are people who once had a kingdom in central asia who ''converted" to judaism and then pass themselves off as the 'real jews' and are the ones -- like george soros, madeleine albright - who land in the middle of societies finding their way to the top )

who once said: \

\" i care not who runs the governments -- so long as have control of the money supply"

THAT'S what is meant by ''DOLLAR MONEY PRINTING"..

-- ION ANY case that is a side-issue - for now

but OBAMA IS nothing more than a water boy for his MONEY masters in wall street,chicago, the really, really top 1 percent of america (or those they ''embrace")

who have NO PROBLEM THROWING ALL of britain under the bus if it means ''choosing" which are the useful ''countries" for them to trade for another country so LONG AS THEY control the ''finance" and ''money supply" and in front of THAT

THE law making system...

which MEANS whether or not there is BREXIT ..

u really have no idea, imo, of what's in store for the british people - scots, welsh, irish, english -- if -- so long as EU is under the control of USA WHICH IT IS (IF anyone bothers to match the decisions and policies of EU BRUSSELS -- THEY LITERALLY MIRROR AMERICAN POLICIES IN ALL AFFAIRS =- INCLUDING ''austerity" for ALL but NOT for the rich)

do you really need to see the xample of what the USA has done to many a country that ''adopted" american policies? it's all over the world.

and YOU ALL in europe are NEXT.

 

[teddytennisfan]

ON A SIDE ISSUE -- i mentioned briefly the ''rothschilds"

do not think that as soon as the PANAMA PAPERS were ''leaked" (it is NOW known that the KHAZAR SOROS , IN Cahoots with CIA, other US organizations is linked to it as SPONSOR of the ''professional journalists" ) --

these same rothschilds CHANGED their '''main location" to Las Vegas for their business front? after CENTURIES of using london -- as cameron etc are thrown under the bus in order to ''entrap" PUTIN?

but never mind that too --

just BREXIT business -- BRITAIN has been paying abotu the same amount of money for 'membership" in brussels that britain CUTS from YOUR social security, health care, pensions, wages, jobs, roads, schools, ? For the privilege of YOU being made to obey BRUSSELS RULES --

that come all the way FROM WASHINGTON?

connect the dots, FEDERBERG and then if you are THAT servile :

then 'cry' UNCLE SAM!!! nad kiss his feet. lol. or OBAMA'S feet until the next time when yoru NEW QUEEN is named HILLARY.


OH -- when she;'s sitting at her white house throne -- she'll make nice, nice with YOUR real queen -- but she as an AMERICAN -- and that is abotu as much ''relation'' you'll EVER get from the americans as a child of long-ago britain --

is going to make SURE YOUR QUEEN and british people KNOW WHO'S THE REAL BOSS...


AMERICA.

tha tis how far GONE the ''child of england" has become...

something that cares NOTHING at all - EVEN for the country they were once part of in the empire - 'rebelled'' against

and NOT because of ''justice for the slaves" or ''freedom" for ''all"

but because they didn't want the ''OLD MAN" (UK)

to have a ''share' in

"//////....this -- OUR INFANT EMPIRE"....(and that's actual words fo GEORGE WASHINGTON)

beucase they KNEW they WERE GOING TO BE even BIGGER!

AND NOW-- centuries later --

IN SOME poetic kind of way -- IT HAS COME HOME TO ROOST...

and cares NOTHING for any of YOU british people. and the way it IS done?


by BINDING YOU under the rules of EU! you just have no idea. yoiu all may think that just because you SHARE BLOOD

or ''names" or ''traditions" of some sort and a language? youa re actually FAMILY to america?

oh no......no no no...you are just the ones RESERVED for ''LATER" as america EATS -- OR TRIES -- OTHER NATIONS of their sovereignty, their self-determination , their economies, their laws, their people's wages, their ''defense" - ...their ''allegiance" -- etc...

i thought you guys - -BRITS would have known that by NOW.

AS I say - i don;t even think i'd be such a stickler for this -- were it not that for some reason -- i just happen to really like the brits.

but you have GOT to take your country BACK from the americans who have it over your heads without your really understanding in full just how RUTHLESS washingtond, chicago, wall street, the ''rich" who find their ''commodious" settings in the ''land of the free to do anything we want to anybody on earth"

really are.

 

[Federberg]

@britbox Disagree... many of the trade deals put greater power in the hands of huge corporate entities and override sovereign interests... that's why there is so much secrecy about them. As you are porbably aware, Goldman Sachs played a pretty large role in the Greek disaster... for the benefit of Goldman Sachs. Not to say, the government of Greece wasn't largely responsible either though.

The EU wasn't good for Greece and Greece isn't good for the EU. Greece would be far better bankrupting itself as with a 300 billion + debt, there is no way back for it in the current framework.

^actually I don't think we're really disagreeing about that. We just have a different take on what's gone wrong. The Greeks paid Goldman to come up with an analysis which put their finances in a good light. So yes they did benefit, but the driving force behind that was the Greeks, they were utterly responsible for that. You'll get no argument from me about Greece and the EU. But try telling that to the Greeks. They seem perfectly willing to suffer penury to stay in the EU. As far as they're concerned it's better to tethered to the EU, i.e., a large bloc than go on their own as effectively an emerging market country. Ironic, given the discussion we're having!

 

[britbox]

 

[Federberg]

I'm at work at the moment, I'll have a look at the video when I get home.

In the interest of full disclosure, here's a link that I'm sure you like. I don't always agree with everything they say though. I'm a big fan of Austrian economics so I get emails from these guys all the time...
https://mises.org/blog/how-brexit-presents-roadblock-eu-us-establishment

 

[Federberg]

By the way, Farage is an absolute t0sser in real life. I know of a guy who used to work with him in his stockbroking days and it wasn't unusual to hear him say things like "why don't you eff off to you own country!" to people of different races. He might sound well spoken, but the sentiments that underlie his politics are extremely unsavoury

 

[britbox]

By the way, Farage is an absolute t0sser in real life. I know of a guy who used to work with him in his stockbroking days and it wasn't unusual to hear him say things like "why don't you eff off to you own country!" to people of different races. He might sound well spoken, but the sentiments that underlie his politics are extremely unsavoury

Yet he's married to a foreigner... and context is everything.

 

[britbox]