Balkan Folk

Mastoor

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In the 70s, a family of Gypsies from Belgrade moved to Paris where they figured out that Gypsies were very popular there. They adopted stage name Ivanovic because their surname Jovanovic was supposedly harder to pronounce and they decided to sing songs of Russian Gypsies. So here they are:

 
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Mastoor

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This is "deaf dance" from Western Bosnia and adjacent regions of what is Croatia today. It is danced with no music therefore the name. if you don't like singing int the beginning go to 1:30 where they start dancing. This is what both Serbs and Croats in the region dance:

 

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is that song sad? the music of course is sad...but if it was sung with the words i mean...it was his funeral but if he asked for it -- it must have been about something hopeful..the 'shto and other sound -- i was just wondering if they were syllables in the song in the other video...and i was hearing syllables like that in russian...

Teddy, the song is Serbian, but it has been performed by people from different countries. I've heard numerous versions. And I absolutely love the song. I actually found a little bit more about it on Wikipedia, there are words of it in Serbian and English too. Here is the link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There,_Far_Away
 
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Billie

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This is another favourite of mine, a very famous march performed on the biggest stages in the world. I chose this one from Vienna with the legendary conductor we all probably know about:



It is also from the WW1, Serbs fought hard,, this is the famous Battle of Cer, which was the first Allied victory over the Central Powers, in 1914, so to commemorate those brave soldiers this march was dedicated to them.

More about it from Wikipedia again, it has lyrics both in Serbian and English:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_the_Drina
 
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Mastoor

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LOL Billie, did you really believe they would play Serbian march? They played their own march of the losing side Radetzky March like they always did, just someone montaged Serbian music instead so it looks like they are playing March on Drina. For teddy who doesn't know those were marches of 2 opposing sides in WW1. The conductor is probably the most famous ever and was a Hitler's conductor, even though his origin is Serbian from both sides. Herbert Karajankovic ;-):
 
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teddytennisfan

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Speaking about Gypsies they were presumably lower cast of musicians and the best of them would be considered Romano Raj which means Gypsy King. Last one I've heard of was Shaban Bajramovich. he was so famous around the world that he was invited to sing for both Nehru and later his daughter Indira who were presumably of the same or similar ethnicity. Here is Shaban singing Djelem, Djelem, unofficial anthem of Gypsies. The lyrics were written by one of famous Gypsies Ivanovich who assumed that the melody which is "from old times" was composed by Gypsies from Belgrade. it talks about horrible destiny of their people during WW2.




amazing, MASTOOR.

yes i noticed the ''pale and darker" people -- the slavic serbians and gypsy serbians.

the gypsies seem to have a history of being rarely fully accepted in societies -- partly explained from what i read because of their own staying close to their ...well...gypsy moorings..but it seems to me, at least from your examples that in serbia they were more fully assimilated or embraced by the serbian ''originals" , if one can put it that was, of the slavic peoples.

to me that is in itself a beautiful quality of your people. ...so much so that the gypsy famous musician you give as example brings that world-renowned gypsy talent for music itself to exress himself AS a serbian.

i have personally known a gypsy family of musicians from romania - and so am a bit familiar with them on a personal level...their dad being a blind man who played the violin UNBELIEVABLY with such virtuousity - that even to a classical musician such as myself it was simply incredible..

there is a documentary of them - that traces their origins of course in india - that is a spectacular trail of how they adapted themselves to the different cultures...leaving their makr - particular in music within the societies they entered - often remaining ''not fully embraced"

such as what was brought to and developed with the balkns peoples..then how the styles differed and surfaced as different music in spain (the flamenco itself being one of those birthed) - then what the influences were in germany and sweden , etc...

in any case -- the idea alone that your people have had to contend with so much challenge is to me a very moving story.
 
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teddytennisfan

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This is another favourite of mine, a very famous march performed on the biggest stages in the world. I chose this one from Vienna with the legendary conductor we all probably know about:



It is also from the WW1, Serbs fought hard,, this is the famous Battle of Cer, which was the first Allied victory over the Central Powers, in 1914, so to commemorate those brave soldiers this march was dedicated to them.

More about it from Wikipedia again, it has lyrics both in Serbian and English:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_the_Drina



amazing -- karajan really gave it his masterful attention -

particularly in ''underlining" with a certain softer touch - between :33 - 47

EXACTLY those very slavic/eastern musical scales in the melodic lines ndharmonies ..(what A re called ion music analysis as ''augmented second intervals" that give that very oriental, or eastern or slavic, or gypsy color and expression that is not common in more standard western tonal music)


what is instructive for me -- is -- although sadly - it is , as you said the music of the 'losing side'' - for the radezky march -- the common strains of the balkans show through in the music.

it is sad that where in a very 'tight' part of the world with such a RICH trove of history and peoples and cultures that so much bitterness and hurt had to happen.

but also that ''buried" in all these - as far as the modern world's ''history" is -- your country of serbia or people of serbia have - in the 'western-ruled history of the world"

been what only amounts to a deprivation of their voice to tell their own story from their own view nd pain.

just like the way the imposition upon serbia in our times by NATO has been...

and just as I have said - and many years now as a fan of NOLE - HE has had to try to ''insert" a little bit of the story of your people "outside of how we hve been portrayed " as supposedly the 'villains" by the west. ..at great risk to his own reputation or ''acceptance" as a player.

these things need to be corrected to the people of the world, imo.
.
 
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Mastoor

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I don't think that the gypsies are fully embraced anywhere in the world and that is largely because they like to live the way that is not considered conventional among others, but I guess they are free to live the way they want in Serbia more than in most other countries.

They joke and say "If there wasn't you Serbs, us gypsies would be last in the world" meaning the worst in the world, but in reality there are still hundreds of thousands of them in a poor country, while they could have easily moved to some more fortunate ones.

Did you watch "Black cat, white cat" comedy about them by Kusturica?








Are you a pianist?
 
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teddytennisfan

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I don't think that the gypsies are fully embraced anywhere in the world and that is largely because they like to live the way that is not considered conventional among others, but I guess they are free to live the way they want in Serbia more than in most other countries.

They joke and say "If there wasn't you Serbs, us gypsies would be last in the world" meaning the worst in the world, but in reality there are still hundreds of thousands of them in a poor country, while they could have easily moved to some more fortunate ones.

Did you watch "Black cat, white cat" comedy about them by Kusturica?








Are you a pianist?

yes, Mastoor. that's my background.

i found a wonderful article, very moving really, about why the russians and serbs are so close -- - in fact really the closest among the slavic peoples, isn't it?

the short film clip - by a serbian -- quotes some serbian sayings:

"serbs are russians in the balkans"...it might as well be also

"russians are serbs in the big country"...

or that other saying according to the video:

"the serb is like a truck -- but not complete without the other half - the russian".

NO WONDER SERBIA is so TARGETED BY the ''west" it is you and russia that stand like pillars that would not submit to teh western demands against your common roots.
 

teddytennisfan

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The Eternal Brotherhood of Russians and Serbs (Video)


A very informative and touching story explaining why Serbs and Russians have historically been so keen on each other and remain so today

Damir Marinovich
1 hour ago | 168 1
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The murals shown here are from the Serbian city of Novi Sad and they have been made in remembrance of Lt. Colonel Oleg Anatolyevich Peshkov, the Russian airman shot down by the Turks over Syria.
Throughout their history, Serbs have been known as “the little Russians from the Balkans” not only because of their common Slavic roots, language, common Orthodox Christian religion and culture, but because they have overwhelmingly been on the "same side" for the last five centuries.

Serbs and Russians were allies in the fight against the Turks from the 17th to the 19th century and in the First and Second World Wars. Russia also supported Serbia during its 90’s fight to preserve its territorial integrity, by not recognizing the Albanian regime in NATO occupied Kosovo.

During the civil war in former Yugoslavia, the West not only armed Croats, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians, together with the help of some Muslim countries (in particular Saudi Arabia and Iran), it has also engaged in anti-Serbian propaganda, demonizing the Serbs in the Western media. Something similar is happening nowadays with the mainstream media propagandistic attitude towards Russia.

Currently, Serbia has a close relationship with Russia, even though it’s a formal candidate for the EU membership. That’s why many EU countries are suspicious of Serbia, seeing it as a potential “Trojan Horse” with a right of veto within EU. Serbs are also not very enthusiastic about joining the EU, and the current pro-EU government knows that Putin is popular with many voters, who still see Orthodox Christian Russia as Serbia's protector.

Russia has given low-interest loans to the cash-strapped Serbian government, and Serbia has been a staunch supporter of (canceled) South Stream, a Gazprom project that would bring Russian gas to Central Europe via the Balkans, against EU opposition. Serbia enjoys a free trade regime with Russia as well with the EU, trying to position itself between east and west. Finally, Russia has established a “humanitarian centre” in the strategically important southern city of Nis. Many EU and US officials fear it could become a Russian military base.

Unfortunately things look very bad at the moment for Serbia. The economy is in a free fall, 95% of remaining companies are in the hands of Western companies, industrial production is close to zero, there is 30% unemployment, a foreign owned media monopoly, and wide-spread corruption and moral decay.

Fortunately, according to the newest surveys, the vast majority of young Serbian people are increasingly "resistant toward the path to the EU," lead by the Serbian pro-Western puppet government.
 

teddytennisfan

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i wish for serbia and her courageous people to regain real independence and freedom from the american-led ''west" again -- and join hands even more firmly with their russian brothers and sisters.
 

Mastoor

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@britbox Tito dies some 35 years ago, so he is long forgotten. they occasionally have some discoveries like he was a British agent and 33rd degree mason, Polish born in Brooklyn, in charge of executing communist during Spanish civil war, etc. But normally people don't even mention him anymore since the 90s. There is still a museum next to the place he was buried in Belgrade so you can visit it if you are interested.


@teddytennisfan I think Russians never hassled Serbs like the West does so I guess that is why most of Serbs are mild Russofils, but that is pretty much the end of the story. There is no huge Russian support, any pillars or whatever of that sort and there has never been. Serbian prime minister seems almost daily instructed by US ambassador and they don't even try to hide it.
 

britbox

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@britbox Tito dies some 35 years ago, so he is long forgotten. they occasionally have some discoveries like he was a British agent and 33rd degree mason, Polish born in Brooklyn, in charge of executing communist during Spanish civil war, etc. But normally people don't even mention him anymore since the 90s. There is still a museum next to the place he was buried in Belgrade so you can visit it if you are interested.

Bit far to go for me these days Mastoor, but I went to Yugoslavia on family holidays as a youngster in the early 80s. It was after Tito had died but I remember there was lots of stuff around kind of enshrining his legacy - huge banners etc... Think it was in Split which would make sense.
 
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Mastoor

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Yes in 1980s it was probably the case all over former Yugoslavia and no wonder because he ruled the country for 35 years, but since so many things happened there.
 
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Mastoor

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Here are some Serbian folk songs performed by a Dutch orchestra. Don't ask me why the orchestra is Dutch, I have no idea. Last one is performed by musicians from Berklee college from Boston.














 

Mastoor

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Late Gypsy King Saban Bajramovic and then some collection of Gypsy music from Serbia:





Before Spanish Gypsy Kings:





 
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