US Politics Thread

britbox

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
28,307
Reactions
6,867
Points
113
Location
Gold Coast, Australia
Also...

I'm suggesting most tyrannical regimes blend the worst of both poles.

Your observation touches on a key insight that many scholars of authoritarianism have highlighted: tyranny often draws on the most extreme tools and narratives from both ends of the political spectrum. The result is a regime that is less a pure “right‑wing” or “left‑wing” experiment and more a hybrid of the most coercive, exclusionary, and centrally‑controlled practices each side can muster.
Below is a concise framework that explains why and how tyrannical systems tend to fuse the “worst” of both poles.

1. Core Instruments of Repression (common to both extremes)​

InstrumentTypical “right‑wing” useTypical “left‑wing” useWhy tyrannies adopt it
Cult of personalityFührer‑style glorification of a nationalist leaderLenin‑style veneration of a revolutionary “comrade”Provides a single focal point for loyalty, bypasses institutional checks.
Mass mobilization & paramilitariesFascist stormtroopers, militia groupsRed Guard squads, People’s MilitiasEnables the regime to enforce its will outside formal legal channels.
State‑controlled propagandaNationalist myth‑making, xenophobic narrativesIdeological indoctrination, class‑enemy demonisationShapes public perception and suppresses dissent.
Surveillance & secret policeGestapo, OVRAKGB, StasiDetects and eliminates opposition before it can organize.
Economic commandAutarkic policies, state‑directed industry for warCentral planning, collectivisation of agricultureAllows the regime to allocate resources toward its political and military goals.
Legal manipulation“Emergency” decrees that suspend civil liberties“People’s Courts” that bypass due processGives a veneer of legality to repression.
These mechanisms are instrumentally neutral: they are not inherently right‑ or left‑leaning, but each ideological tradition has historically refined them for its own purposes. A tyrant can cherry‑pick whichever version best serves immediate objectives.

2. Ideological Justifications – Where the Poles Meet​

Right‑leaning justificationLeft‑leaning justificationShared outcome
National or ethnic purity – “the nation must be protected from alien influences.”Class purity – “the proletariat must be protected from bourgeois contamination.”Both create an “us vs. them” dichotomy that legitimizes exclusion, persecution, and violence.
Order and hierarchy – “strong leadership restores stability.”Revolutionary vigilance – “constant struggle against counter‑revolution.”Both foster a permanent state of emergency, normalising extraordinary powers.
Traditional values – “preserve the moral fabric of the nation.”Utopian egalitarianism – “build a classless society.”Both can justify coercive social engineering (e.g., forced cultural assimilation, collectivisation, gender‑role enforcement).
When a regime feels threatened, it can invoke either narrative—or both—to broaden the pool of enemies and tighten control.

3. Historical Illustrations​

RegimeRight‑wing elementLeft‑wing elementHow they merged
Nazi GermanyRacial nationalism, Führer cult, paramilitary SA/SSState‑directed economy (autarky, Four‑Year Plan), anti‑capitalist rhetoric (“socialism” in the party name)Economic controls were used to prepare for war and to reward loyal “Aryan” enterprises, while the racial ideology justified mass murder.
Stalinist USSRRussian‑centric “Soviet patriotism,” glorification of Stalin, forced collectivisation (a form of agrarian “purity”)Marxist‑Leninist class struggle, central planning, elimination of “bourgeois” elementsThe regime portrayed the Soviet Union as a defender of the “Motherland” against external fascist threats, while simultaneously purging perceived class enemies.
Maoist ChinaEmphasis on Chinese cultural heritage, “cultural revolution” to cleanse societyMaoist class struggle, collectivisation, anti‑revisionist campaignsThe Cultural Revolution fused nationalist slogans (“protect the revolution”) with class‑based denunciations, leading to widespread terror.
Pinochet’s ChileUltra‑nationalist anti‑communist rhetoric, military juntaNeoliberal economic overhaul (privatisation, deregulation) – a radical break from previous welfare stateThe regime used nationalist fear of “Marxist subversion” to justify sweeping free‑market reforms that devastated many communities.
North KoreaJuche nationalism (“self‑reliance”), dynastic cult of the Kim familySupposed socialist egalitarianism, state‑owned industryThe state blends extreme nationalism with a proclaimed socialist economy, using both to justify isolation and total control.
These cases illustrate that authoritarian leaders routinely borrow from both ideological toolkits to maximize legitimacy, mobilise supporters, and eliminate opposition.

4. Why the Blend Is Attractive to Tyrants​

  1. Flexibility: By not committing to a single doctrinal line, a regime can adapt its messaging to shifting domestic or international pressures.
  2. Broadening the enemy base: Combining ethnic, racial, or cultural scapegoats with class‑based enemies creates a larger “other” that can be blamed for crises.
  3. Resource mobilisation: Right‑wing nationalism can rally mass popular support; left‑wing economic control can funnel resources directly to the state and the war machine.
  4. Legitimacy through “purity”: Both sides claim to protect a “pure” community—whether defined by bloodline or class—making harsh measures appear morally necessary.

5. Take‑aways​

  • Tyranny is not a tidy point on the left‑right axis. It is a strategic synthesis of the most coercive instruments each side has honed.
  • The “worst” of both poles—extreme exclusion, absolute obedience, and total economic control—often coexist in the same authoritarian playbook.
  • Understanding this hybrid nature helps us spot early warning signs: when a government simultaneously invokes nationalist myths and class‑based rhetoric, or when it mixes paramilitary intimidation with state‑planned economics, we are likely witnessing a move toward authoritarian consolidation rather than a purely right‑ or left‑wing experiment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kieran

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
18,178
Reactions
8,167
Points
113
That’s a great read, @britbox . Particularly the way ideological tyrants take control in the same ways, just waving different flags.

I find it makes my eyeballs blur when I see supporters of the extreme left complain about the extreme right. Been watching videos of people who gloat about cancel culture from the left then complain about cancel culture that happened to figures on the left. A lot of the people who are cancelling their Disney subscriptions are probably the same people who cheered Charlie Kirk’s death. I’ll say one thing for the “extreme right” - at least they’re not rioting about it, yet. I’ll give them that. That’s a difference between them. There’s been no looting and murder and "mostly peaceful" destruction of cities when somebody they love got gunned down in the public square.
 
Last edited:

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
16,686
Reactions
6,502
Points
113
I don’t believe those corporations are pushovers, I think actually the opposite, that they’d use any suggestion of overreach and pressures from the White House in the most public way possible to get ratings and favour with viewers, while also trying to harm the president. There’s no way in this great culture war that’s happening that they’d buckle to a few busy Trumpisms about a huge star like Kimmel. Think about it, you have Democrats on CNN blaming Trump, there’s nothing atypical about that. They blame Trump for everything, no matter what he does. But they could really have kept Kimmel in his job and still blamed Trump for interference.

So I think with his contract ending in May and his ratings being lower, the execs cynically used this opportunity to shaft him, and this is why it’s a bad day for free speech.
they might have been able to in the end mate. After a lengthy legal battle that goes to the Supreme Court... "May"... not certain. In the interim... it could be months or years their businesses would be decimated. If the FCC takes them off the air, they're off the air. From a cost/benefit analysis it would make no sense to resist Trump. Particularly as they all know the next step of the Administration would be to hurt the owners other business interests. Most of them make far more money elsewhere, probably something that requires government support. These are conglomerates that might have media interests but what if they have defence contracting businesses? Think of a company like General Electric. No mate... you're missing a huge key in all this. The government has the leverage in the near term. And we all know the Supreme Court in recent times seems to always default to supporting whatever Trump wants to do..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kieran

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
16,686
Reactions
6,502
Points
113
I told you I basically didn't even know who he was, so I never felt like I was lied to about him. I'm willing to understand that his heart was in the right place, even if his politics were extreme right. I thought you might have some preference, but, OK.
lol! I'm really surprised you didn't know who Eric Swalwell is. He's been a prominent Democratic legislator for several cycles now. I find it particularly amusing as you like to tell those of us who live across the pond that we know nothing about your politics! I'm genuinely stunned. Do you know who Adam Schiff is? :face-with-tears-of-joy:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Kieran

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
16,686
Reactions
6,502
Points
113
Could you define what you mean by "extreme right politics" - most people don't seem to be able to when you ask them, so I'd be interested in your definition.
weird state of affairs mate. If you're not on the left these days you're on the extreme right wing it seems
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kieran

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
18,178
Reactions
8,167
Points
113
they might have been able to in the end mate. After a lengthy legal battle that goes to the Supreme Court... "May"... not certain. In the interim... it could be months or years their businesses would be decimated. If the FCC takes them off the air, they're off the air. From a cost/benefit analysis it would make no sense to resist Trump. Particularly as they all know the next step of the Administration would be to hurt the owners other business interests. Most of them make far more money elsewhere, probably something that requires government support. These are conglomerates that might have media interests but what if they have defence contracting businesses? Think of a company like General Electric. No mate... you're missing a huge key in all this. The government has the leverage in the near term. And we all know the Supreme Court in recent times seems to always default to supporting whatever Trump wants to do..
I don’t mind any of that, but are we sure that Trump is behind the FCC move, or have the acted independently? Neither would surprise me, but nor am I surprised that this seems to be an issue that falls between the usual fault lines..
 

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
18,178
Reactions
8,167
Points
113
This is a couple of months ago, but it’s still funny!

 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
16,686
Reactions
6,502
Points
113
I don’t mind any of that, but are we sure that Trump is behind the FCC move, or have the acted independently? Neither would surprise me, but nor am I surprised that this seems to be an issue that falls between the usual fault lines..
no mate. Everyone knows exactly where this comes from. As @Moxie pointed out, these late show hosts have been mocking Presidents for decades. Trump appointees know the playbook, and Trump himself has made comments. Does Trump need to make a direct explicit comment? No! Those who seek to advance will fill in the blanks and do what will please the emperor. This is the way it's always been. This is a blatant attack on freedom of speech mate. This isn't even left or right, as it's the left who've tended to be the greater threat to free speech. If anything this just exposes the fact that Trump (if tariffs hadn't already done this) is a populist and not really a politician of the right...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Kieran

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
45,369
Reactions
16,059
Points
113
lol! I'm really surprised you didn't know who Eric Swalwell is. He's been a prominent Democratic legislator for several cycles now. I find it particularly amusing as you like to tell those of us who live across the pond that we know nothing about your politics! I'm genuinely stunned. Do you know who Adam Schiff is? :face-with-tears-of-joy:
Of course I know who Adam Schiff is! He just texted me. (He wants money. :lulz1:) I never tell you that you know nothing about our politics. Obviously, you all know a lot, and far more than I do about yours. When I get aggravated is when someone who doesn't live here tells us what we think, or makes sweeping generalities that I don't think are accurate.
 

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
18,178
Reactions
8,167
Points
113
Hmmm.. I didn’t know this…


It's terrible but it makes sense, when we factor in that she's the most prominent member of the infamous squad, none of whom would ever be mistaken for a patriot. They believe that violence from the left is justified, and violence from the right is an attempt to force fascism onto sheep...
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
45,369
Reactions
16,059
Points
113
Hmmm.. I didn’t know this…


There is a difference between an elected official who was assasinated, and a partisan commentator and party operative who was. Your man equates them rather disingenuously. Charlie Kirk, for all the efforts here to smooth out his rough edges, did have some outrageous things to say, and held some views that many don't agree with. That is why some congresspeople objected to the resolution. Read the wording. Everyone is against political violence. No one thinks Charlie Kirk deserved to die for what he said. But they don't have to approve of it, or codify it.

Your man talks about left-wing violence. Worth noting that the right wing is by far more responsible for political violence in this country, despite what Trump says.


Also note, Trump talks a lot of about what "they" did to Charlie Kirk. And his followers are echoing the same. There is no "they." It was one guy. This kind of talk foments violence. Congressional resolutions mean nothing if some won't tone down the rhetoric, starting with the President.
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
16,686
Reactions
6,502
Points
113
There is a difference between an elected official who was assasinated, and a partisan commentator and party operative who was. Your man equates them rather disingenuously. Charlie Kirk, for all the efforts here to smooth out his rough edges, did have some outrageous things to say, and held some views that many don't agree with. That is why some congresspeople objected to the resolution. Read the wording. Everyone is against political violence. No one thinks Charlie Kirk deserved to die for what he said. But they don't have to approve of it, or codify it.

Your man talks about left-wing violence. Worth noting that the right wing is by far more responsible for political violence in this country, despite what Trump says.


Also note, Trump talks a lot of about what "they" did to Charlie Kirk. And his followers are echoing the same. There is no "they." It was one guy. This kind of talk foments violence. Congressional resolutions mean nothing if some won't tone down the rhetoric, starting with the President.
lol! He's not "my guy" nice try with the framing though (Something you do often :D ). I literally posted something I hadn't seen before, without expressing a view one way or another. If you ask me the real danger in this day and age is people like you who make unsubstantiated inferences about other peoples views. I'm starting to understand why it was so easy for people who hadn't actually listened to Charlie Kirk to celebrate his death. You say Charlie Kirk had some outrageous things to say? Post them. Let us judge these outrageous things. Bet you won't though. Full video mind you. I think we're all tired of being deceived by short clips. I fell for the rope-a-dope already and I'm tired of it.

PS, I saw one clip where Kirk suggests that Joy Reid didn't get into Harvard on merit, with people ranting about him being racist saying that, only to see another clip with Joy admitting on her show that she got in because of Affirmative Action. So.... was he racist to make that statement of apparent fact? I don't think so...
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
45,369
Reactions
16,059
Points
113
lol! He's not "my guy" nice try with the framing though (Something you do often :D ). I literally posted something I hadn't seen before, without expressing a view one way or another. If you ask me the real danger in this day and age is people like you who make unsubstantiated inferences about other peoples views. I'm starting to understand why it was so easy for people who hadn't actually listened to Charlie Kirk to celebrate his death. You say Charlie Kirk had some outrageous things to say? Post them. Let us judge these outrageous things. Bet you won't though. Full video mind you. I think we're all tired of being deceived by short clips. I fell for the rope-a-dope already and I'm tired of it.

PS, I saw one clip where Kirk suggests that Joy Reid didn't get into Harvard on merit, with people ranting about him being racist saying that, only to see another clip with Joy admitting on her show that she got in because of Affirmative Action. So.... was he racist to make that statement of apparent fact? I don't think so...
Sorry, that was a turn-of-phrase and meant nothing, the bit about. I said "your man," which generally just mean "the guy."

I believe it's your phrase that a stopped clock is right twice a day. Charlie Kirk has said plenty of dodgy things that no amount of context can fix. I'm not saying that I don't appreciate his attempts to open dialogue, and he certainly didn't deserve to die for his speech. But I don't think he gets elevated to national hero when more than half the country wouldn't agree with him, and many would find/have found some of it offensive.

I wish we didn't get so hung up on the infighting. Curious to know what you think about Trump's divisive rhetoric over this, if that's how you find it. And his insistence that far right violence is just from people who are tired of crime.
 
Last edited:

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
18,178
Reactions
8,167
Points
113
Sorry, that was a turn-of-phrase and meant nothing, the bit about. I said "your man," which generally just mean "the guy."

I believe it's your phrase that a stopped clock is right twice a day. Charlie Kirk has said plenty of dodgy things that no amount of context can fix. I'm not saying that I don't appreciate his attempts to open dialogue, and he certainly didn't deserve to die for his speech. But I don't think he gets elevated to national hero when more than half the country wouldn't agree with him, and many would find/have found some of it offensive.

I wish we didn't get so hung up on the infighting. Curious to know what you think about Trump's divisive rhetoric over this, if that's how you find it. And his insistence that far right violence is just from people who are tired of crime.
What “dodgy” things did he say? And bear in mind that many of that “more than half the country” believes in chemically castrating young boys, and mutilating young girls, all to push an agenda based on a far left lie.

Did he say anything as bad as that?
 

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
18,178
Reactions
8,167
Points
113
We can file this one under, Tell Me Something I Didn’t Already Know:

Google admits Biden administration pressured it to censor COVID-19 content, YouTube to restore banned accounts


Quite timely, given allegations that Trump exerted pressure on ABC to dump Kimmel (who is now apparently restored). I don’t know if there are any other major social media and tech companies remaining that the Biden administration bullied, given that Facebook and Twitter have already testified.

According to the House Judiciary Committee:

  1. The Biden Administration pressured Google to censor Americans and remove content that did not violate YouTube’s policies.
  2. The Biden Administration censorship pressure was “unacceptable and wrong.”
  3. Public debate should never come at the expense of relying “authorities.”
  4. The company will never use third-party “fact-checkers.”
  5. Europe’s censorship laws target American companies and threaten American speech, including the removal of “lawful content.”
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
16,686
Reactions
6,502
Points
113
Sorry, that was a turn-of-phrase and meant nothing, the bit about. I said "your man," which generally just mean "the guy."

I believe it's your phrase that a stopped clock is right twice a day. Charlie Kirk has said plenty of dodgy things that no amount of context can fix. I'm not saying that I don't appreciate his attempts to open dialogue, and he certainly didn't deserve to die for his speech. But I don't think he gets elevated to national hero when more than half the country wouldn't agree with him, and many would find/have found some of it offensive.

I wish we didn't get so hung up on the infighting. Curious to know what you think about Trump's divisive rhetoric over this, if that's how you find it. And his insistence that far right violence is just from people who are tired of crime.
Curious to know what you think about Trump's divisive rhetoric over this, if that's how you find it.
re: Trump, he's a buffoon. Just once... once! I wish he would step up to the moment and actually lead people. But it takes courage to put yourself out there and lead, and deep down he's still a scared little boy waiting for daddy's approval. It ain't ever going to happen...

Charlie Kirk has said plenty of dodgy things that no amount of context can fix.
while I have no doubt he has, he's human after all... and as I, myself, have said, his comments regarding Paul Pelosi were partisan and hateful. But please.. seriously.. can you send me an example of what you're talking about. Because every time I've been sent a clip and I've gone down the rabbit hole to watch the hole thing, he's managed to uno-reverse me. He is NOT racist, he is NOT homophobic, he is NOT a misogynist. He's partisan, he had MAGA political views that aren't for an old school conservative like me. The way I look at it, he's no more deplorable than... Hugh Hewitt...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kieran

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
16,686
Reactions
6,502
Points
113
We can file this one under, Tell Me Something I Didn’t Already Know:

Google admits Biden administration pressured it to censor COVID-19 content, YouTube to restore banned accounts


Quite timely, given allegations that Trump exerted pressure on ABC to dump Kimmel (who is now apparently restored). I don’t know if there are any other major social media and tech companies remaining that the Biden administration bullied, given that Facebook and Twitter have already testified.
hmmm... not sure this bolster the argument mate. Like it or not, even if there is now evidence to question some of the decisions made, there was a global pandemic. There was an honorable reason to restrain what a government might reasonably have considered false information that could damage efforts to spread what they considered to be a cure. That's entirely different from what this Administration forced ABC to do to Kimmel.

I'm not saying it was correct. Heck I'm not sure the world has figured out a way to manage free information mediums correctly yet. This issue is basically only a few decades old... if that. I honestly think all governments around the world deserve some grace on this topic
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
mrzz World Affairs 2694
T World Affairs 13
britbox World Affairs 89
britbox World Affairs 1131
britbox World Affairs 46