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Ok, so no-one's ever won...
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Kieran Offline
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Ok, so no-one's ever won...
...Canada, Cincy & NY. Not even the great Sampras. I stand to be corrected on this, but I don't think it was ever done.

So has Rafa shot his load too quickly?

Or are we seeing him churning up the summer hards like he does the summer clay? He's grinding through these MS titles like it was Monte Carlo, Rome and Madrid.

Personally, I'd have preferred he skip Cincy, but once he got on a roll and spied #2 spot (to be followed by #1), he won't be told. He'll play everything. But has he done this at the expense of NY?

And don't suggest I'm being negative here for an ulterior motive: Canada, Cincy & The Big Apple was a bridge too far for fellers with a greater HC record than Ralph...
18-Aug-2013 01:49 PM
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rafanoy1992 (08-18-2013)
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
(18-Aug-2013 01:49 PM)Kieran Wrote:  ...Canada, Cincy & NY. Not even the great Sampras. I stand to be corrected on this, but I don't think it was ever done.

So has Rafa shot his load too quickly?

Or are we seeing him churning up the summer hards like he does the summer clay? He's grinding through these MS titles like it was Monte Carlo, Rome and Madrid.

Personally, I'd have preferred he skip Cincy, but once he got on a roll and spied #2 spot (to be followed by #1), he won't be told. He'll play everything. But has he done this at the expense of NY?

And don't suggest I'm being negative here for an ulterior motive: Canada, Cincy & The Big Apple was a bridge too far for fellers with a greater HC record than Ralph...

My friend Kieren, Andy Roddick is the only player to win Canada-Cincinnati-US Open trifecta which was 10 years ago. So, Nadal can achieve the feat in the ten year anniversary of Roddick's only Grand Slam title.
18-Aug-2013 01:51 PM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
(18-Aug-2013 01:51 PM)rafanoy1992 Wrote:  My friend Kieren, Andy Roddick is the only player to win Canada-Cincinnati-US Open trifecta which was 10 years ago. So, Nadal can achieve the feat in the ten year anniversary of Roddick's only Grand Slam title.

Well, that's this thread derailed already! :snigger Lay Down Laughing Clap

Vamos Rafa!
18-Aug-2013 01:52 PM
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calitennis127 Offline
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
Well Kieran, with Djokovic, Federer, and Del Potro underperforming considerably, and with Murray either content or exhausted (or both) after the Wimbledon run, and with everyone else stinking it up on hardcourts, it is, unfortunately, entirely possible that Nadal will win the US Open.

If the game has declined to the point that he can win in Cincinnati, why not the US Open? It's entirely possible.
18-Aug-2013 01:57 PM
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rafanoy1992 Offline
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
I have a small miscalculation, Kieran. Patrick Rafter is the only other player to win the Canada-Cincinnati-US Open trifecta.
18-Aug-2013 02:14 PM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
Rafter, back in the mists! Shows how hard it is, and how rare.

So many reasons to think Rafa is brave or foolish to load his schedule this way. I was actually hoping he'd ease off the gas against Roger or Dmitrov, but once he sets his eyes on something, he can't be told.

In fairness though, he's playing high level stuff, so why not go for everything? This mentality serves him well on clay, where he has a pedigree, but on HC's, the likes of Murray and Nole will consider the real business to start next week...
18-Aug-2013 02:22 PM
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rafanoy1992 Offline
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
(18-Aug-2013 02:22 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Rafter, back in the mists! Shows how hard it is, and how rare.

So many reasons to think Rafa is brave or foolish to load his schedule this way. I was actually hoping he'd ease off the gas against Roger or Dmitrov, but once he sets his eyes on something, he can't be told.

In fairness though, he's playing high level stuff, so why not go for everything? This mentality serves him well on clay, where he has a pedigree, but on HC's, the likes of Murray and Nole will consider the real business to start next week...

I think if Federer would broken Nadal in the second set, then Nadal would probably ease off the gas. But, Federer couldn't broke Nadal so Rafa just decided why not go for it Which he did at the end of the second set.
18-Aug-2013 02:27 PM
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calitennis127 Offline
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
(18-Aug-2013 02:22 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Rafter, back in the mists! Shows how hard it is, and how rare.

So many reasons to think Rafa is brave or foolish to load his schedule this way. I was actually hoping he'd ease off the gas against Roger or Dmitrov, but once he sets his eyes on something, he can't be told.

In fairness though, he's playing high level stuff, so why not go for everything? This mentality serves him well on clay, where he has a pedigree, but on HC's, the likes of Murray and Nole will consider the real business to start next week...



It will be interseting to see what happens with Djokovic and Murray at the US Open.

Will the sleeping giant within Djokovic re-awaken and stand tall in the second week of the tournament?

Will Murray's post-Wimbledon honeymoon phase come to an end before the USO gets under way, or it will the honeymoon continue all the way through the end of the year?

We shall see.
(This post was last modified: 18-Aug-2013 02:29 PM by calitennis127.)
18-Aug-2013 02:29 PM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
(18-Aug-2013 02:29 PM)calitennis127 Wrote:  It will be interseting to see what happens with Djokovic and Murray at the US Open.

Will the sleeping giant within Djokovic re-awaken and stand tall in the second week of the tournament?

Will Murray's post-Wimbledon honeymoon phase come to an end before the USO gets under way, or it will the honeymoon continue all the way through the end of the year?

We shall see.

Absolutely. They're having the kind of prep Rafa had in 2010: the type that keeps the powder dry. I expect Murray to raise his levels by a significant amount, and Nole to be a different proposition over 5.

My main query is, has Rafa peaked too soon? I suppose we won't know the answer to that until his NY run ends in glory or defeat...
18-Aug-2013 02:40 PM
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El Dude Online
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
Cali, why are you so down on Nadal? The dude is amazing and, I think, starting to make a case for himself as being the best of all time. He needs 2 or 3 more Slams to seriously consider it, and at least one should be something other than the French Open imo, but he's in the discussion.

Kieran, I can't help but think that its too bad about Wimbledon. If he had done better this really could have been one of the great tennis seasons, but losing in the 1R at Wimbledon and missing AO mars it too much. But I think its clear that Rafa is the best in the game right now.
18-Aug-2013 02:47 PM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
That's a great point, El Dude, and of course, to my mind the player of the year is the one who has the best record in slams. So far, that's Nole, and if Nole wins NY, he'll be the player of the year, regardless how soon Nadal overtakes him at the top...
18-Aug-2013 02:49 PM
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imjimmy Offline
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
I was almost hoping that Nadal lost to someone in Cincy. There's obviously questions on whether he can be 100% fit for the Open and whether his knees act up. But more importantly, it's the law of averages that does catchup with everyone. As I mentioned in the other thread only Rafter and Roddick have ever done the 3 tournaments back to back. It's gotta be hard.

Momentum is crucial. You get lucky and seem to be on the winning end of all close matches. And then suddenly luck runs out. Remember what happened to Djokovic in the F.O 2011 SF? Until then he had won every single match for the whole year. It was inconceivable that he would lose. But he did, and in the most important match that cost him RG and a potential calender slam. Nadal will hope the same doesn't happen to him.

So it remains to be seen whether Nadal can keep up the mental and physical intensity for another couple of weeks. To be fair, while I wanted him to skip Cincy, it's unfathomable to see him tank a tournament. If he was close to winning, what else could he do, except to win it? Let's see whether he can do the seemingly impossible in NYC
(This post was last modified: 18-Aug-2013 03:01 PM by imjimmy.)
18-Aug-2013 02:58 PM
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El Dude Online
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
He's also won 5 ATP 1000s so far, and four in a row, with two left in the year. I'm wondering what the records are for total ATP 1000s in a year, and most in a row. The only active player to win 5 in a season is Djokovic in 2011, and not even then did he win four in a row. I think 5 is the record, and I think 4 in a row is a record - at least in the ATP 1000 era.
18-Aug-2013 03:00 PM
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rafanoy1992 (08-18-2013)
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
(18-Aug-2013 03:00 PM)El Dude Wrote:  He's also won 5 ATP 1000s so far, and four in a row, with two left in the year. I'm wondering what the records are for total ATP 1000s in a year, and most in a row. The only active player to win 5 in a season is Djokovic in 2011, and not even then did he win four in a row. I think 5 is the record, and I think 4 in a row is a record - at least in the ATP 1000 era.

El Dude, the record for most Masters 1000 in one season is 5 (Laver in 1970, Connors in 1976, Djokovic in 2011, and Nadal in 2013). The record for most Masters 1000 finals in one season is 6 (Laver in 1970, Federer in 2006, Djokovic in 2011, and Nadal in 2013).

Nadal is the first player in Tennis history to win four consecutive Masters 1000 tournament without a skip tournament. (Madrid, Rome, Canada, Cincinnati).
18-Aug-2013 03:18 PM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
Next one is Shanghai, is it?

How many has Rafa not won? Shanghai, Paris, and Miami?

But he won Madrid on hards in 2005, how's that counted now? It was in Shanghai's slot on the calendar...
18-Aug-2013 03:26 PM
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rafanoy1992 (08-18-2013)
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
(18-Aug-2013 03:26 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Next one is Shanghai, is it?

How many has Rafa not won? Shanghai, Paris, and Miami?

But he won Madrid on hards in 2005, how's that counted now? It was in Shanghai's slot on the calendar...

Kieran, Nadal only needs to win Miami and Paris Masters Indoors to complete the Masters 1000 set. Yes, the Madrid Indoors in 2005 is counted as a Shanghai win because Shanghai replaced Madrid Indoors.

In my opinion, I think he will win Miami and he will never win Paris Indoors. Knowing Rafa though anything can happen!
18-Aug-2013 03:42 PM
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Didi Offline
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
Kieran, relax. I'm sure Nadal would like to win the US Open and add to his slam tally but it's not like his entire career, legacy, life or even this season depends on the outcome. He already has the trophy in the bag and isn't chasing the career grand slam anymore, rather gunning for the the year end #1 which is the main reason he played Cincinnati in my opinion. He gained 2000 points by winning Montreal and Cincy. A solid trip to the semis in NYC would add another 720p, making it a total of 2720 points which (points-wise) equals exactly winning the US Open and making the semis at both masters.

Therefore he has already done his homework. The outcome in NYC is a bonus. If he goes all the way and wins it, it's perfect, if not, it won't really hurt him. Slams are obviously very important but getting the year end #1 in one of Djokovic's prime years would be huge for him as well. Of course this is a matter of opinion. If you value a slam title over the year end #1, then you are probably going to be disappointed in about 3 weeks time. It's not his slam to lose, it's Murray's. Plus the one guy really under pressure to deliver and save the season.....is Djokovic. That's my take on it.
18-Aug-2013 04:42 PM
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
(18-Aug-2013 04:42 PM)Didi Wrote:  Kieran, relax. I'm sure Nadal would like to win the US Open and add to his slam tally but it's not like his entire career, legacy, life or even this season depends on the outcome. He already has the trophy in the bag and isn't chasing the career grand slam anymore, rather gunning for the the year end #1 which is the main reason he played Cincinnati in my opinion. He gained 2000 points by winning Montreal and Cincy. A solid trip to the semis in NYC would add another 720p, making it a total of 2720 points which (points-wise) equals exactly winning the US Open and making the semis at both masters.

Therefore he has already done his homework. The outcome in NYC is a bonus. If he goes all the way and wins it, it's perfect, if not, it won't really hurt him. Slams are obviously very important but getting the year end #1 in one of Djokovic's prime years would be huge for him as well. Of course this is a matter of opinion. If you value a slam title over the year end #1, then you are probably going to be disappointed in about 3 weeks time. It's not his slam to lose, it's Murray's. Plus the one guy really under pressure to deliver and save the season.....is Djokovic. That's my take on it.

Year end #1 is an awesome achievement but slams are more important. That's what defines players the most.

People are putting too much stock into the "peaking too soon theory." Had Nadal lost to Djokovic in Montreal and lost early in Cincy his chances at the USO would be far less IMO.

Can't say I agree that it's Murray's "slam to lose." I don't think there is a big favorite but the one caveat is to look out for Djokovic and in a bad way. Playing awful tennis ahead of a slam (starting with SW 19 final) is always worrisome and I will not be surprised if he exits early (QF or before).
18-Aug-2013 05:03 PM
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
(18-Aug-2013 04:42 PM)Didi Wrote:  Therefore he has already done his homework. The outcome in NYC is a bonus. If he goes all the way and wins it, it's perfect, if not, it won't really hurt him. Slams are obviously very important but getting the year end #1 in one of Djokovic's prime years would be huge for him as well. Of course this is a matter of opinion. If you value a slam title over the year end #1, then you are probably going to be disappointed in about 3 weeks time. It's not his slam to lose, it's Murray's. Plus the one guy really under pressure to deliver and save the season.....is Djokovic. That's my take on it.

Rafa plays for slams, end of the story. Winning back to back HC titles on fast courts over players he will have to beat to win the UO it can only benefit him. Confidence it's a great thing to have as tennis player...suddenly those balls start hitting lines and those aces on BP start raining in
18-Aug-2013 05:11 PM
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lindseywagners Offline
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RE: Ok, so no-one's ever won...
(18-Aug-2013 05:11 PM)huntingyou Wrote:  
(18-Aug-2013 04:42 PM)Didi Wrote:  Therefore he has already done his homework. The outcome in NYC is a bonus. If he goes all the way and wins it, it's perfect, if not, it won't really hurt him. Slams are obviously very important but getting the year end #1 in one of Djokovic's prime years would be huge for him as well. Of course this is a matter of opinion. If you value a slam title over the year end #1, then you are probably going to be disappointed in about 3 weeks time. It's not his slam to lose, it's Murray's. Plus the one guy really under pressure to deliver and save the season.....is Djokovic. That's my take on it.

Rafa plays for slams, end of the story. Winning back to back HC titles on fast courts over players he will have to beat to win the UO it can only benefit him. Confidence it's a great thing to have as tennis player...suddenly those balls start hitting lines and those aces on BP start raining in

Nadal has said that Slams don't mean that much to him compared to other tournaments. He's said he'd rather win more lower-level tournaments than just win one Slam, because the feeling of joy will wear off anyway, and so he'd rather experience it more often (i.e. simply winning more titles, wherever they may be).
18-Aug-2013 05:52 PM
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