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Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
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coban Offline
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Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/04/n...Xf0orXJQj4

... i just dont understand what he writes - wtf is he trying to say??
24-Apr-2013 10:12 AM
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Sundaymorningguy Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
I think a lot of it goes toward him trying to favor one player versus the other rather than getting to his point. Clearly, he favors Djokovic. I admit and I agree that Djokovic beating Nadal in one of his backyards makes for an intriguing clay season, but he also fails to follow through with what he initially brings up about Djoker is that his wins and losses are very esoteric in that sometimes they are just that very specific, and that one win on clay this season does not suggest Djoker will or won't go on a tear. After all the prize is Roland Garros, other titles are nice, but if he can't beat Nadal in his other back yard then what is the point. Nadal has 3 more tournaments before the French to get things in order, and Nadal being a student of the game usually makes the adjustments when he loses. Djokovic will not have it as easy next time they should meet. He also fails to discuss that Djokovic is more likely of the two to have problems making it to the finals of clay events than Rafa. Bodo typically is always a fan of the player du jour. Although, he usually has some animosity toward Roger for some reason.
24-Apr-2013 11:46 AM
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El Dude Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
(24-Apr-2013 10:12 AM)coban Wrote:  http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/04/n...Xf0orXJQj4

... i just dont understand what he writes - wtf is he trying to say??

I thought it was a good piece - rambling, but with a nice subtle, contemplative quality.

What he's saying, as I understand it, is that Novak's 2011 set a kind of unrealistic standard, and that there was always the lingering doubt that Novak was simply "in Nadal's head" in the same way that Rafa was "in Roger's head." When 2012 arrived and Nadal started beating Novak again, his star dimmed a bit. And then when Rafa went out in the 2R at Wimbledon and was injured, Roger won Wimbledon and Murray the US Open, there was further doubts to the brightness of Novak's shine - especially relative to 2011, which was one of the greatest seasons in the Open Era.

But what Bodo is saying is that Novak's greatness is a kind of nonchalant risk-taking that makes him the player to beat now and for the foreseeable future, and really the only player that can beat Rafa on clay (although he questions whether he can do so in a five-setter). He might lose any given tournament, but he's always there, always a threat to win it all - and will as much as he loses - largely because he's not afraid to lose.

And that might be one of the reasons Novak's so great: he's not afraid to lose. You can tell how much it pains Rafa, and Roger has become increasingly frustrated. But Novak just keeps plugging along and plays and sets an incredibly difficult threshold to beat. It may even be that Novak is not capable of the heights of a Rafa or Roger, but that his "floor" is so much higher - and its because of his fearlessness.

Consider the above a rambling riff off of Bodo's ruminations!
24-Apr-2013 11:57 AM
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AndrewWilliam Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?


Not a horrible piece by Bodo. But as Nehmeth and others pointed out, it lacks substance by not honing in on any one particular point. A collage of thoughts running through his mind on display.

I disagree somewhat with his underlining Djokovic as a fearless risk-taker and consequently painting Nadal as a point miser. What I saw at Monte Carlo was a measured and thoughtful showing by Nole. He exploited weaknesses in Nadal's game. Sure, there are always a few shots by Novak that are not necessarily high percentage plays, but no where did I think Novak was winning because of some high-risk high reward strategy. He just outplayed him.

On the other side of the coin, Nadal tries his fair share of forehands that could be described as 'difficult' or 'risky'. Rafa just wasn't able to put his stamp on proceedings. He wasn't able to generate the pace and spin necessary to cow Djokovic into playing on his terms. I guess I just don't agree with such labels. They are two fabulous players, leave it at that.
(This post was last modified: 24-Apr-2013 02:59 PM by AndrewWilliam.)
24-Apr-2013 01:34 PM
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SF Nadalite Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
I'm SO SO SO tired of reading someone's notion of one match is the tennis equivalent of an earthquake.

Nole lost the last 2 major tournaments he played, but NOW everything is different: Rafa won 8 MC's in a row, but now that he lost - everything is different.

If Roger wins Wimbledon, then against he will again be the greatest player in the world.

enough already!
24-Apr-2013 02:54 PM
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Mastoor Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
(24-Apr-2013 10:12 AM)coban Wrote:  http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/04/n...Xf0orXJQj4

... i just dont understand what he writes - wtf is he trying to say??

I wondered the same when i read it yesterday
24-Apr-2013 03:27 PM
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huntingyou Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
Bodo is POS........and everything he writes is S***.

There, I answered the OP question.
24-Apr-2013 04:18 PM
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Mastoor Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
I think this is interesting. "The fact that Djokovic hails from a very different Europe than Nadal or Federer also inhibited our full embrace of him."

How superb his English is you'd never guess, but Bodo is from Hungary which is some 250kms from belgrade, where No1e is from, therefore the same part of Europe, so he knows what he is talking about in this case.
24-Apr-2013 06:32 PM
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Moxie629 Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
(24-Apr-2013 06:32 PM)Mastoor Wrote:  I think this is interesting. "The fact that Djokovic hails from a very different Europe than Nadal or Federer also inhibited our full embrace of him."

How superb his English is you'd never guess, but Bodo is from Hungary which is some 250kms from belgrade, where No1e is from, therefore the same part of Europe, so he knows what he is talking about in this case.

That's an interesting insight, Mastoor...I wouldn't have known that back-story. However, do you really think that's true...or true from your perspective? I thought it was gratuitous when he said it, but how much do you think it matters? When Rafa came up there was a little bit of Northern Europe is elegant vs. Southern Europe is brute-force. Now Bodo is trying to say that most can accept Switzerland and Spain, but they exclude Serbia from their affections. It seems slightly over-determined to me, in an individual sport, where it's personalities, not national affiliations that determines fan-loyalty, but tell me what you think.

I'll still go back to this, though: what Djokovic lacks in fan love (which fades with every year,) is that the world was already divided into Federer/Rafa fans. But "was" is a point. Plenty of people seem to be coming to the Nole camp.
24-Apr-2013 07:40 PM
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tented Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
(24-Apr-2013 01:34 PM)AndrewWilliam Wrote:  Not a horrible piece by Bodo. But as Nehmeth and others pointed out, it lacks substance by not honing in on any one particular point. A collage of thoughts running through his mind on display.

It reads like something he cut-and-pasted from several articles he had already written, then assembled them into this mess, because he needed to hand in a piece of X-number of words in order to get paid.
24-Apr-2013 07:48 PM
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Riotbeard Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
(24-Apr-2013 07:40 PM)Moxie629 Wrote:  
(24-Apr-2013 06:32 PM)Mastoor Wrote:  I think this is interesting. "The fact that Djokovic hails from a very different Europe than Nadal or Federer also inhibited our full embrace of him."

How superb his English is you'd never guess, but Bodo is from Hungary which is some 250kms from belgrade, where No1e is from, therefore the same part of Europe, so he knows what he is talking about in this case.

That's an interesting insight, Mastoor...I wouldn't have known that back-story. However, do you really think that's true...or true from your perspective? I thought it was gratuitous when he said it, but how much do you think it matters? When Rafa came up there was a little bit of Northern Europe is elegant vs. Southern Europe is brute-force. Now Bodo is trying to say that most can accept Switzerland and Spain, but they exclude Serbia from their affections. It seems slightly over-determined to me, in an individual sport, where it's personalities, not national affiliations that determines fan-loyalty, but tell me what you think.

I'll still go back to this, though: what Djokovic lacks in fan love (which fades with every year,) is that the world was already divided into Federer/Rafa fans. But "was" is a point. Plenty of people seem to be coming to the Nole camp.

Moxie, at risk of being boring, I think it is a combo. Obviously the extreme popularity of Fedal has effected people embracing novak, but I do think his status as a eastern european and Serbian in particularly affects novak's personality and how people perceive him.

While not by any means the same thing, I relate to Novak's personality as someone from a marginalized region in the U.S. (the South). Not to say it is socially or economically the same by any stretch of the imagination, but I identify with the brash self-confidence of novak's pride in a homeland that is typically derided/ or at least over shadowed by other regions in a broader culture. There is also an analogous aspect of having to be associated with your home's questionable past, even though you had nothing to do with it that shapes Novak's identity (at least as I see it).
24-Apr-2013 08:19 PM
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Moxie629 Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
(24-Apr-2013 08:19 PM)Riotbeard Wrote:  
(24-Apr-2013 07:40 PM)Moxie629 Wrote:  
(24-Apr-2013 06:32 PM)Mastoor Wrote:  I think this is interesting. "The fact that Djokovic hails from a very different Europe than Nadal or Federer also inhibited our full embrace of him."

How superb his English is you'd never guess, but Bodo is from Hungary which is some 250kms from belgrade, where No1e is from, therefore the same part of Europe, so he knows what he is talking about in this case.

That's an interesting insight, Mastoor...I wouldn't have known that back-story. However, do you really think that's true...or true from your perspective? I thought it was gratuitous when he said it, but how much do you think it matters? When Rafa came up there was a little bit of Northern Europe is elegant vs. Southern Europe is brute-force. Now Bodo is trying to say that most can accept Switzerland and Spain, but they exclude Serbia from their affections. It seems slightly over-determined to me, in an individual sport, where it's personalities, not national affiliations that determines fan-loyalty, but tell me what you think.

I'll still go back to this, though: what Djokovic lacks in fan love (which fades with every year,) is that the world was already divided into Federer/Rafa fans. But "was" is a point. Plenty of people seem to be coming to the Nole camp.

Moxie, at risk of being boring, I think it is a combo. Obviously the extreme popularity of Fedal has effected people embracing novak, but I do think his status as a eastern european and Serbian in particularly affects novak's personality and how people perceive him.

While not by any means the same thing, I relate to Novak's personality as someone from a marginalized region in the U.S. (the South). Not to say it is socially or economically the same by any stretch of the imagination, but I identify with the brash self-confidence of novak's pride in a homeland that is typically derided/ or at least over shadowed by other regions in a broader culture. There is also an analogous aspect of having to be associated with your home's questionable past, even though you had nothing to do with it that shapes Novak's identity (at least as I see it).

Wow, that's a really interesting insight, Riotbeard, relating Southerners in the US to Serbians. I can tell you that I hear you...although I live in NYC, I have lived in MS, LA and TX. I do think that prejudice against the South in the US is pervasive, and unfair. Maybe that does explain something about folks looking down their noses at the Serbs. And it explains something about Novak so aggressively defending his homeland, even though he lives outside of it. I guess "home" is a state-of-mind.
24-Apr-2013 09:37 PM
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britbox Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
I think the European dimension is nonsense. The main reason Djokovic doesn't command the same popularity as Federer and Nadal is because he arrived on the scene later when both players were already established as elite with fanbases to match. Most casual observers had already hitched up to either the Federer or Nadal bandwagons and aren't likely to unhitch themselves until they hang up the racquets. Djokovic will likely become more popular when one of these players retires.
24-Apr-2013 09:51 PM
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Billie Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
I think it is very unwise to say things about other people/nations without really knowing the facts or history. I am a Serb living in Canada, not because I didn't like living where I was born, but because I was forced to leave my hometown and Serbia was too small to receive all of us hundreds of thousands people suddenly without home.

Despite what official foreign policy is and what western media say, there were victims on all 3 sides and bad things happening to all people. I guess you had to live or experience it to know for sure. He also knows that his success is considered as a bright light in the lives of many Serbs as they still have things that are not settled and live in bad conditions. Even people living outside of Serbia love him and cheer for him as he makes us proud and happy and he is a genuine good soul. He gives to his country something more than taxes, something you can't buy with money. There are so many business opportunities for Serbia based on Nole's contacts, his charity work is very active now helping children in Serbia (charity work was mostly unknown concept before tennis players started it), if you don't see Jelena in Nole's box, chances are that she is doing something for the charity. I could go on and on...but you get the idea....Big Smile

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24-Apr-2013 10:11 PM
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AndrewWilliam Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
(24-Apr-2013 09:51 PM)britbox Wrote:  I think the European dimension is nonsense. The main reason Djokovic doesn't command the same popularity as Federer and Nadal is because he arrived on the scene later when both players were already established as elite with fanbases to match. Most casual observers had already hitched up to either the Federer or Nadal bandwagons and aren't likely to unhitch themselves until they hang up the racquets. Djokovic will likely become more popular when one of these players retires.

I'm calling bs on the locale having anything to do with Djokovic's fan support/popularity as well. I'm not totally sold on the idea that Fed and Nadal's popularity is the major reason for it either. I think he rub's people the wrong way with his cocky bravado at times and maybe he doesn't exude the same charisma as a Nadal or Federer to be perfectly honest.

But as you can see from these forums and elsewhere, there are still many who do relate to him and enjoy his personality. I like the variety of characters we have in men's tennis. Not everyone is cut from the same cloth and that is a good thing.
(This post was last modified: 24-Apr-2013 11:17 PM by AndrewWilliam.)
24-Apr-2013 10:47 PM
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Moxie629 Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
(24-Apr-2013 10:47 PM)AndrewWilliam Wrote:  
(24-Apr-2013 09:51 PM)britbox Wrote:  I think the European dimension is nonsense. The main reason Djokovic doesn't command the same popularity as Federer and Nadal is because he arrived on the scene later when both players were already established as elite with fanbases to match. Most casual observers had already hitched up to either the Federer or Nadal bandwagons and aren't likely to unhitch themselves until they hang up the racquets. Djokovic will likely become more popular when one of these players retires.

I'm calling bs on the locale having anything to do with Djokovic's fan support/popularity as well. I'm not totally sold on the idea that Fed and Nadal's popularity is the major reason for it either. I think he rub's people the wrong way with his cocky bravado at times and maybe he doesn't exude the same charisma as a Nadal or Federer to be perfectly honest.

But as you can see from these forums and elsewhere, there are still many who do relate to him and enjoy his personality. I like the variety of characters we have in men's tennis. Not everyone is cut from the same cloth and that is a good thing.

For you, clearly, it's purely "taste," as you don't like his brand of "cocky bravado." To each his own. I don't care for it, either. But when you say he doesn't have the charisma of Nadal or Federer, there I have question your judgement. As much as they each appeal differently to different people, they all register high on the "charisma quotient," I would say. Novak is a hugely appealing character, as well as an supremely talented tennis player. That makes him a super-star. He may not be Federer or Nadal, yet, but he has chops and stardust.
24-Apr-2013 11:53 PM
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AndrewWilliam Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
(24-Apr-2013 11:53 PM)Moxie629 Wrote:  
(24-Apr-2013 10:47 PM)AndrewWilliam Wrote:  
(24-Apr-2013 09:51 PM)britbox Wrote:  I think the European dimension is nonsense. The main reason Djokovic doesn't command the same popularity as Federer and Nadal is because he arrived on the scene later when both players were already established as elite with fanbases to match. Most casual observers had already hitched up to either the Federer or Nadal bandwagons and aren't likely to unhitch themselves until they hang up the racquets. Djokovic will likely become more popular when one of these players retires.

I'm calling bs on the locale having anything to do with Djokovic's fan support/popularity as well. I'm not totally sold on the idea that Fed and Nadal's popularity is the major reason for it either. I think he rub's people the wrong way with his cocky bravado at times and maybe he doesn't exude the same charisma as a Nadal or Federer to be perfectly honest.

But as you can see from these forums and elsewhere, there are still many who do relate to him and enjoy his personality. I like the variety of characters we have in men's tennis. Not everyone is cut from the same cloth and that is a good thing.

For you, clearly, it's purely "taste," as you don't like his brand of "cocky bravado." To each his own. I don't care for it, either. But when you say he doesn't have the charisma of Nadal or Federer, there I have question your judgement. As much as they each appeal differently to different people, they all register high on the "charisma quotient," I would say. Novak is a hugely appealing character, as well as an supremely talented tennis player. That makes him a super-star. He may not be Federer or Nadal, yet, but he has chops and stardust.

I actually like Novak and have no problem with his mannerisms, Moxie. If you refer to my post, I am trying to help define a reason as to 'why' Djokovic doesn't receive as much fan support as the other top guns. And as I said, I'm just finding it hard to swallow that it has anything to do with his being Serbian.

For instance, my mother who is an avid Tennis fan herself (roots for Nadal, go figure) simply does not like Djokovic. She has no understanding of where he is from, but like you, she doesn't care for how he expresses himself at times.

Many people (posters) have said similar things about Roddick. I think what it boils down to is likability and that in itself is perspective driven. I personally like the edgier players like Connors, McEnroe, Roddick, Djokovic, etc. But more than that I'm a fan of the game itself and the beauty therein. Never really got wrapped up in the popularity contest of the whole thing.

Like my dad always told me: "Be yourself son........and if that isn't good enough, f*** 'em!" Tongue
(This post was last modified: 25-Apr-2013 01:11 AM by AndrewWilliam.)
25-Apr-2013 12:47 AM
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jhar26 Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
All very interesting theories, but I think that the reason why Federer and Nadal are even more popular than Djokovic is simply that they were there first. At first Federer dominated everything. In fact, he was so much better than everyone else that people were desperate for a rival, an "anti-Federer" with a different game and personality to arrive on the scene. Nadal was that guy. The affections of tennis fans were split into two camps - the Federer tribe and the Nadal tribe. When Djokovic made his mark fans had already chosen sides, and had in fact already done so for many a year. They were set in their ways as it were, and Djokovic was perhaps seen by some as a bit of a spoiler. But it's all relative because by 'normal' standards Novak is a very popular figure. It's just that he has to compete with two of the most popular figures in the history of the game. Federer and Nadal are a hard act to follow.
25-Apr-2013 03:49 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
In terms of popularity, I think there's three reasons:

1. The chronology. Fedal were there first.

2. Style. Fedal represent opposing ideals and therefore they split the tennis community in their support.

3. Novak used to try to hard to be liked and came across as a lightweight, in comparison to the two men who were about the serious bidness of cleaning up tennis titles.

He can't do anything about the first two, but he certainly addressed the third in an impressive and successful fashion...
25-Apr-2013 08:57 AM
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Riotbeard Offline
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RE: Can someone explain to me what Bodo is trying to say here?
I think to some extant people underrate the degree to which Nole's own national background affect his personality for better or worse. I don't think many people (at least on this side of the Atlantic) say serbian=dislike, but I think many of things that people point out for better or worse about how Novak interacts in the public sphere is related to his being Serbian, and in this sense, I think it affects how fans engage with him. It is also hard for me to imagine that at least some people don't have negative associations with the Serbian state which it is hard to imagine don't have some effect. I would definitely say nationality is a secondary issue to Fedal and possibly other factors, but I don't think it is irrelevant.
(This post was last modified: 25-Apr-2013 05:24 PM by Riotbeard.)
25-Apr-2013 01:43 PM
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