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Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
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Moxie629 Offline
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Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
L'Equipe is speculating:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Tennis/Actualites/...gee/365403

They're asking if RG would pull a Wimbledon and give Nadal a higher seeding to prevent, for example, a Djokovic-Nadal QF. Do you think they'll do it?
23-Apr-2013 07:32 PM
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Billie Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
I think they should and they probably will do it as they already started talking/writing about it. I understand that all but Wimbledon majors are unwilling to do it, but in this case they should really do it. He was away from tennis tour due to injury and he is multiple champion in Paris. And I think that players would be happy with Rafa having a higher seed.

They should consider past champions and past results when seeding players at all slams, imo.

If your hate could be turned into electricity, it would light up the whole world. NT
23-Apr-2013 08:19 PM
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tennisville Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
it will be unfair for Ferrer . Whats the point of earning points throughout the year if during the major , they change the seeds . And Murray should be bumped to no 5 . They never changed the seeds for Haas when he came back . If historically they havent dont it then they should not do it . Its just not fair to the other players

I really hope they dont change the seeds . And this is a major boost for the people who said draws are not fixed . They could have silently put Rafa in Ferrers half if they wanted to fix it . Whats the point of advertizing . It suggests the draws are and were always random
(This post was last modified: 23-Apr-2013 08:43 PM by tennisville.)
23-Apr-2013 08:41 PM
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huntingyou Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
wishful thinking........ain't happening.
23-Apr-2013 08:45 PM
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Sundaymorningguy Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
I find it funny that I thought they would discuss it, and I was lambasted by many saying no the French strictly goes by the ranking they would never consider this. Well here we are consideration time. Like it or not the possibility of having all of your key players in the later matches is important. You can sell more tickets if you still have Roger, Rafa, Nole and Andy (even a Tsonga or Berdych win for the semi spot) than if one of them went out any earlier to Nadal. With that prize money increase, they will certainly want to sell as many tickets as possible Wink.
23-Apr-2013 08:50 PM
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Billie Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
My main point is that Nadal was injured and therefore his ranking slipped. He didn't just start losing and in that case I may be able to see the point against it. I am sorry but Nadal has so many RG titles and can't be compared with Haas. And why nobody complains when they change the seeding at Wimbledon? Use the formula just like at Wimbledon, I am sure that Rafa qualifies to bump up his seeding. I think that they will somehow be on opposite sides one way or another.

Life is not fair. Would people mention Ferrer if this were Wimbledon instead?

If your hate could be turned into electricity, it would light up the whole world. NT
23-Apr-2013 08:55 PM
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Moxie629 Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
(23-Apr-2013 08:41 PM)tennisville Wrote:  it will be unfair for Ferrer . Whats the point of earning points throughout the year if during the major , they change the seeds . And Murray should be bumped to no 5 . They never changed the seeds for Haas when he came back . If historically they havent dont it then they should not do it . Its just not fair to the other players

I really hope they dont change the seeds . And this is a major boost for the people who said draws are not fixed . They could have silently put Rafa in Ferrers half if they wanted to fix it . Whats the point of advertizing . It suggests the draws are and were always random

I don't think anyone wants to "fix" the draw, per se, but you make a good point. If they grant Nadal a "protected seeding," where do they put him? At 1, or 2? It should be 1, by rights, if they're going to change it. And where does that leave Ferrer, who has a greater clay-court record over Murray, by titles, I think? Does he go to 4 and Murray to 5? Or does he just get screwed over, when he won his place in the top 4, as far as seeding at RG?

I understand why Wimbledon reserves the right to change their seedings, and there is an argument, (clearly, this year,) that RG should consider it, too. The HCs, no. The bulk of the year is played on HCs, and the rankings should stand.
23-Apr-2013 08:56 PM
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tented Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
(23-Apr-2013 08:45 PM)huntingyou Wrote:  wishful thinking........ain't happening.

Exactly.
23-Apr-2013 09:07 PM
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1972Murat Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
(23-Apr-2013 09:07 PM)tented Wrote:  
(23-Apr-2013 08:45 PM)huntingyou Wrote:  wishful thinking........ain't happening.

Exactly.

Ditto..plus you know what, others should worry, not Rafa. Also, you will have a hard time trying to explain it to David, who is a thousand points ahead.
Speaking of point differences, Roger is only 10 points ahead of Murray. Can it get any closer than that?

23-Apr-2013 10:02 PM
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Didi Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
I for one as a neutral fan (as far as the Big 4 is concerned) really hope they don't do it. Rafa being seeded as 5th would add a lot of spice to the draw and could potentially create many interesting and intriguing constellations in the dynamics of the draw and how it all works out eventually. I admit this sounds very arrogant and self-serving because it's for my own entertainment but that's how it is. Rafa at his best is good enough to go through DelPo/Berdych/Tsonga and all of the Big 4 in order to win the title. It could indeed be the most brutal road to a Slam title ever but if there is one player who's able to pull it off on clay, it's certainly Nadal.
23-Apr-2013 10:06 PM
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reddy Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
(23-Apr-2013 10:02 PM)1972Murat Wrote:  
(23-Apr-2013 09:07 PM)tented Wrote:  
(23-Apr-2013 08:45 PM)huntingyou Wrote:  wishful thinking........ain't happening.

Exactly.

Ditto..plus you know what, others should worry, not Rafa. Also, you will have a hard time trying to explain it to David, who is a thousand points ahead.
Speaking of point differences, Roger is only 10 points ahead of Murray. Can it get any closer than that?
Agreed. If RG never had a seeeding formula/ special consideration, why have it now? Just to avoid Nadal-Djokovic QFs?

As far as Fed is concerned, it will likely change after Madrid where he is defending the title.
23-Apr-2013 10:22 PM
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herios Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
If the rankings don't change and RG committee do not change the seeding, what is the jeopardy for Rafa? Only one, to meet Novak in the QF, which would be a 25% chance.
in any other case, he will have no problems at all, beating either Ferrer, Roger or Andy Murray in that QF round. He did it many times with David and Roger and what Andy can do on clay , well, didn't we just see it last week?

Plus this would open a can of worms.

(23-Apr-2013 10:02 PM)1972Murat Wrote:  
(23-Apr-2013 09:07 PM)tented Wrote:  
(23-Apr-2013 08:45 PM)huntingyou Wrote:  wishful thinking........ain't happening.

Exactly.

Ditto..plus you know what, others should worry, not Rafa. Also, you will have a hard time trying to explain it to David, who is a thousand points ahead.
Speaking of point differences, Roger is only 10 points ahead of Murray. Can it get any closer than that?
Following this week, Murray will lose another 90 points (he is losing his points earned last year in Barca), but that 100 points will almost 99% change following Madrid, even if Roger wins the title. Andy has no points to defend in Madrid.
(This post was last modified: 23-Apr-2013 10:37 PM by herios.)
23-Apr-2013 10:30 PM
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Mastoor Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
If it is true that he is getting tired easily when playing tennis on high level as he said and looking at his last 3 matches it probably is, it is actually irrelevant what Nadal's seed will be at RG for anyone else but him, because he will likely lose the first time he faces either No1e, Fed or Murray if not before.

(23-Apr-2013 08:55 PM)Billie Wrote:  My main point is that Nadal was injured and therefore his ranking slipped. He didn't just start losing and in that case I may be able to see the point against it. I am sorry but Nadal has so many RG titles and can't be compared with Haas. And why nobody complains when they change the seeding at Wimbledon? Use the formula just like at Wimbledon, I am sure that Rafa qualifies to bump up his seeding. I think that they will somehow be on opposite sides one way or another.

Life is not fair. Would people mention Ferrer if this were Wimbledon instead?

Yolita calculated and he will be seeded 2 if they use the formula. I think she mentioned that formula adds up atp points, points won on clay in last 12 months and points won on clay in 12 months prior to that.
(This post was last modified: 23-Apr-2013 11:46 PM by Mastoor.)
23-Apr-2013 11:31 PM
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Moxie629 Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
(23-Apr-2013 10:30 PM)herios Wrote:  If the rankings don't change and RG committee do not change the seeding, what is the jeopardy for Rafa?

It's not the "jeopardy" for Rafa that they're protecting. It's the potential that the tournament doesn't get it's marquee final. Nadal is the most likely to get through whatever draw he gets. If anything, they're suggesting protecting Djokovic and Federer, especially, and saving them for the SFs and Fs.
23-Apr-2013 11:54 PM
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tennisville Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
(23-Apr-2013 08:55 PM)Billie Wrote:  My main point is that Nadal was injured and therefore his ranking slipped. He didn't just start losing and in that case I may be able to see the point against it. I am sorry but Nadal has so many RG titles and can't be compared with Haas. And why nobody complains when they change the seeding at Wimbledon? Use the formula just like at Wimbledon, I am sure that Rafa qualifies to bump up his seeding. I think that they will somehow be on opposite sides one way or another.

Life is not fair. Would people mention Ferrer if this were Wimbledon instead?

But I am saying Haas was also injured for a long time and as a result his ranking dropped . He did not just start losing matches. He never got any protected seeding for RG . So the comparision is valid . Doesnt matter what they have accomplished before . They both faced the same circumstances and it will be unfair if one got a protected seeding and the other did not .

Another example is Del Potro who was a much bigger threat at RG than Murray but he wasnt given a better seeding than Murray in 2011 . As a result he got screwed and faced Djokovic in R3 while Murray got a dream draw to the semis because of his seeding . So IMHO seeding should remain as it always has been otherwise

Wimbledon is different because there is so little grass court so the top grass court players arent in the seeds . They do this to get the top 32 grass court players as seeds . In contrast there are a lot of clay events , south american swing , eoropean clay court season and the post wimbledon season .

It also adds spice to the draw making the tournament more exciting

(23-Apr-2013 08:56 PM)Moxie629 Wrote:  
(23-Apr-2013 08:41 PM)tennisville Wrote:  it will be unfair for Ferrer . Whats the point of earning points throughout the year if during the major , they change the seeds . And Murray should be bumped to no 5 . They never changed the seeds for Haas when he came back . If historically they havent dont it then they should not do it . Its just not fair to the other players

I really hope they dont change the seeds . And this is a major boost for the people who said draws are not fixed . They could have silently put Rafa in Ferrers half if they wanted to fix it . Whats the point of advertizing . It suggests the draws are and were always random

I don't think anyone wants to "fix" the draw, per se, but you make a good point. If they grant Nadal a "protected seeding," where do they put him? At 1, or 2? It should be 1, by rights, if they're going to change it. And where does that leave Ferrer, who has a greater clay-court record over Murray, by titles, I think? Does he go to 4 and Murray to 5? Or does he just get screwed over, when he won his place in the top 4, as far as seeding at RG?

I understand why Wimbledon reserves the right to change their seedings, and there is an argument, (clearly, this year,) that RG should consider it, too. The HCs, no. The bulk of the year is played on HCs, and the rankings should stand.

Ferrer has a better record than Murray on the clay . Reached finals of MC and Rome , semis of Madrid and has as many semis in RG as Murray does . Also he has won more titles on clay compared to Murray . Heck you can argue Del Potro has better results on clay than Murray . Injuries are part and parcel of the game and nobody should be given special treatment .
24-Apr-2013 01:06 AM
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Moxie629 Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
(24-Apr-2013 01:06 AM)tennisville Wrote:  
(23-Apr-2013 08:55 PM)Billie Wrote:  My main point is that Nadal was injured and therefore his ranking slipped. He didn't just start losing and in that case I may be able to see the point against it. I am sorry but Nadal has so many RG titles and can't be compared with Haas. And why nobody complains when they change the seeding at Wimbledon? Use the formula just like at Wimbledon, I am sure that Rafa qualifies to bump up his seeding. I think that they will somehow be on opposite sides one way or another.

Life is not fair. Would people mention Ferrer if this were Wimbledon instead?

But I am saying Haas was also injured for a long time and as a result his ranking dropped . He did not just start losing matches. He never got any protected seeding for RG . So the comparision is valid . Doesnt matter what they have accomplished before . They both faced the same circumstances and it will be unfair if one got a protected seeding and the other did not .

Another example is Del Potro who was a much bigger threat at RG than Murray but he wasnt given a better seeding than Murray in 2011 . As a result he got screwed and faced Djokovic in R3 while Murray got a dream draw to the semis because of his seeding . So IMHO seeding should remain as it always has been otherwise

Wimbledon is different because there is so little grass court so the top grass court players arent in the seeds . They do this to get the top 32 grass court players as seeds . In contrast there are a lot of clay events , south american swing , eoropean clay court season and the post wimbledon season .

It also adds spice to the draw making the tournament more exciting

(23-Apr-2013 08:56 PM)Moxie629 Wrote:  
(23-Apr-2013 08:41 PM)tennisville Wrote:  it will be unfair for Ferrer . Whats the point of earning points throughout the year if during the major , they change the seeds . And Murray should be bumped to no 5 . They never changed the seeds for Haas when he came back . If historically they havent dont it then they should not do it . Its just not fair to the other players

I really hope they dont change the seeds . And this is a major boost for the people who said draws are not fixed . They could have silently put Rafa in Ferrers half if they wanted to fix it . Whats the point of advertizing . It suggests the draws are and were always random

I don't think anyone wants to "fix" the draw, per se, but you make a good point. If they grant Nadal a "protected seeding," where do they put him? At 1, or 2? It should be 1, by rights, if they're going to change it. And where does that leave Ferrer, who has a greater clay-court record over Murray, by titles, I think? Does he go to 4 and Murray to 5? Or does he just get screwed over, when he won his place in the top 4, as far as seeding at RG?

I understand why Wimbledon reserves the right to change their seedings, and there is an argument, (clearly, this year,) that RG should consider it, too. The HCs, no. The bulk of the year is played on HCs, and the rankings should stand.

Ferrer has a better record than Murray on the clay . Reached finals of MC and Rome , semis of Madrid and has as many semis in RG as Murray does . Also he has won more titles on clay compared to Murray . Heck you can argue Del Potro has better results on clay than Murray . Injuries are part and parcel of the game and nobody should be given special treatment .

Tennisville: you do understand the reason to do it would be to favor the tournament, not the player. Therefore, comparisons to Haas, or even Ferrer or Murray are spurious. Nadal has won it 7 times, and is the reigning champion. The tournament MAY BE considering putting him at higher seeding to favor their own draw. (And we don't even know they're seriously considering it.) However, if they did, and I'm not saying they should, it would be in the interest of getting the best matches in SFs and Fs, not to throw Nadal a bone.
24-Apr-2013 01:26 AM
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huntingyou Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
(23-Apr-2013 11:31 PM)Mastoor Wrote:  If it is true that he is getting tired easily when playing tennis on high level as he said and looking at his last 3 matches it probably is, it is actually irrelevant what Nadal's seed will be at RG for anyone else but him, because he will likely lose the first time he faces either No1e, Fed or Murray if not before.


You trolling right?

Rafa is the hunter, don't forget and his seeding at RG only concerns the top guys not him Wink
24-Apr-2013 04:59 AM
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johnsteinbeck Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
well, i don't think it's likely either, but as i said before, i'd be all for it in theory. the biggest problem, as has been discussed, is who should be demoted to #5, and that's not easily solved (wouldn't even leave Roger out of this - the one with the best record but the worst recent performances out of the three; if he keeps the #2 rank, then he's probably not a candidate, but that seems almost unlikely looking at the points they're defending).

but without a question, Rafa belongs, at the least, in the top 4. to me, this isn't about justice or nostalgia, it's about putting the strongest players in each corner of the draw. i don't care if Rafa slipped because of injury or if he had taken half a year off to pursue a telenovela acting career. the point is that the seedings aren't there to reward or protect players, if you ask me, but to increase the chance that the most relevant meetings happen at the last stages of the tournament. noone wants to see Nole and Rafa in the quarters. i sure don't.
24-Apr-2013 05:18 AM
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Denisovich Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
Just rig the draw, saves everybody a lot of headaches. Put Nadal in the half that Djokovic is not in. And make sure to get a Fedal semi for some of us with nostalgic feelings. Will give Nadal some rest too to prepare for the final with Djokovic which he will need I think.

Yes, this is running ahead of things. Still euforic after Monte Carlo.
24-Apr-2013 06:16 AM
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johnsteinbeck Offline
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RE: Nadal to get "protected" seeding at RG?
(24-Apr-2013 06:16 AM)Denisovich Wrote:  Just rig the draw, saves everybody a lot of headaches. Put Nadal in the half that Djokovic is not in. And make sure to get a Fedal semi for some of us with nostalgic feelings. Will give Nadal some rest too to prepare for the final with Djokovic which he will need I think.

Yes, this is running ahead of things. Still euforic after Monte Carlo.

*lol* excellent idea(s), i must admit. Wink
(This post was last modified: 24-Apr-2013 07:20 AM by johnsteinbeck.)
24-Apr-2013 07:09 AM
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