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Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
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Fiero425 Offline
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Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
Since some of the true greats are still playing, some names will flip I'm sure:

1) Federer - 17 majors & holds so many records incl. 7 Wimbledons & 5 str. USO's)
2) Laver - 2 cal. yr Gr Slams - should have more majors (11) but for amateur rules
3) Sampras - Held #1 ranking for 6+ years and won 7 Wimbledons, 5 USO's, 2 AO's
4) Bjorn Borg - Won 5 straight wimbledons and 6 French Opens (4 straight)
5) Rafa Nadal - Won 7 FO's and a career Grand Slam (Olympic Gold in singles)
6) Agassi - Career Grand Slam including 8 majors and Olympic Gold in singles
7) Lendl - 8 majors and won 94 titles including 3 USO, 3 FO's, & 5 Masters
8) Connors - Won 107 titles including 5 USO on 3 surfaces, 2 Wimbledons, 1 AO
9) McEnroe - Won 7 majors including 3 Str. USO's, 4 overall - 3 Wimbledons
10)Roy Emerson - Honorary top 10 holding 12 majors in singles - (pre-Open era)

This is just from memory! If any errors, feel free to let me know and make your choices for the top 10 of all time for the men! Novak Djokovic will break into the top 10 in good time! Women to come on another thread!

"Kneel before your master! Fool; You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
(This post was last modified: 28-Jul-2013 03:15 PM by Fiero425.)
28-Jul-2013 03:10 PM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
What gives! You had Lendl before Nadal on that other thread...
28-Jul-2013 03:12 PM
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Fiero425 Offline
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
(28-Jul-2013 03:12 PM)Kieran Wrote:  What gives? You had Lendl before Nadal on that other thread...

I have little if any respect for Nadal, but fair is fair! The man has 7 FO's, a career Grand Slam, and Olympic Gold in singles! Besides that, he's still playing! He'll never catch up to many of Lendl's records like 270 weeks at #1 or playing 8 straight USO's, but I have to be a realist! Lendl will never get the respect he deserves! I was lucky to watch and root for him during a very tough era! I didn't realize you were paying that good of attention either! You busted me! lol!

"Kneel before your master! Fool; You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
(This post was last modified: 28-Jul-2013 03:59 PM by Fiero425.)
28-Jul-2013 03:51 PM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
I loved Lendl as a player. He was kind of my favourite after Borg retired, along with Mats. I had no other favourites then, until Pete.

But why do you have no respect for Ralphy? He's such a humble bully... Big Smile
28-Jul-2013 04:11 PM
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Fiero425 Offline
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
(28-Jul-2013 04:11 PM)Kieran Wrote:  I loved Lendl as a player. He was kind of my favourite after Borg retired, along with Mats. I had no other favourites then, until Pete.

But why do you have no respect for Ralphy? He's such a humble bully... Big Smile

Oh Gawd, you're going to get me going now! Besides having one of the ugliest games around, he's like a spoiled child on the court! He makes people wait from the beginning of the match to take pictures to toweling off for extended periods between every point! He challenges almost everything and is wrong the majority of the time as well! Nole has picked up that tactic just to balance it all out! Federer would have won a couple of those matches at the FO if not for unsportsman-like behavior by Nadal! People think they're great friends! Nothing could be further from the truth! Nadal even joined the ATP Council in a self-serving capacity trying to get them to change the ranking to a 2 year span rather than the current 1 so he could have stayed at #1 longer! People don't pay attention to these little things, but I've been associated with, played, and taught the game since 1971! I've seen them all including brats like Connors, Nastase, McEnroe, Cliff Richey, & a host of others, but none have offended me with such disengenuousness than Rafa Nadal! It's all an act of self-deprecation, shyness, and being humble while others don't try to hide they're jerks! Only being honest here! Angry Confused No No Tongue

"Kneel before your master! Fool; You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
(This post was last modified: 28-Jul-2013 04:25 PM by Fiero425.)
28-Jul-2013 04:23 PM
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
(28-Jul-2013 04:23 PM)Fiero425 Wrote:  
(28-Jul-2013 04:11 PM)Kieran Wrote:  I loved Lendl as a player. He was kind of my favourite after Borg retired, along with Mats. I had no other favourites then, until Pete.

But why do you have no respect for Ralphy? He's such a humble bully... Big Smile

Oh Gawd, you're going to get me going now! Besides having one of the ugliest games around, he's like a spoiled child on the court! He makes people wait from the beginning of the match to take pictures to toweling off for extended periods between every point! He challenges almost everything and is wrong the majority of the time as well! Nole has picked up that tactic just to balance it all out! Federer would have won a couple of those matches at the FO if not for unsportsman-like behavior by Nadal! People think they're great friends! Nothing could be further from the truth! Nadal even joined the ATP Council in a self-serving capacity trying to get them to change the ranking to a 2 year span rather than the current 1 so he could have stayed at #1 longer! People don't pay attention to these little things, but I've been associated with, played, and taught the game since 1971! I've seen them all including brats like Connors, Nastase, McEnroe, Cliff Richey, & a host of others, but none have offended me with such disengenuousness than Rafa Nadal! It's all an act of self-deprecation, shyness, and being humble while others don't try to hide they're jerks! Only being honest here! Angry Confused No No Tongue

Geesh! No holding back.

I find this interesting, if you are telling the truth. It would be nice, not that I'd believe you, to get some more comments about specific players.

A warning though, some people here will take major offense. Not I, but I guess that's why I'm asking.
28-Jul-2013 04:56 PM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
I like honesty! And I see nothing wrong with the above. I happen to think Roger gets browbeaten too handily by Nadal. Let's face it, you really think Connors or Sampras would put up with a rival bullying them on court? They might lose (well, Jimmy might) but they'd get at the other guy's throat. There'd be bad blood. Roger goes down too serenely and without fire when they meet in the slams. It's like, it's Rafa's court and they're going through the motions.

But really, I haven't seen a FO match between them that Roger got close to winning. I thought he should have tried stamp Rafa out when he was a pup, in 2005, but Nadal was more than he could handle, even back then, as a "one-dimensional player..." Wink
28-Jul-2013 05:00 PM
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Fiero425 Offline
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
(28-Jul-2013 04:56 PM)Asmodeus Wrote:  
(28-Jul-2013 04:23 PM)Fiero425 Wrote:  
(28-Jul-2013 04:11 PM)Kieran Wrote:  I loved Lendl as a player. He was kind of my favourite after Borg retired, along with Mats. I had no other favourites then, until Pete.

But why do you have no respect for Ralphy? He's such a humble bully... Big Smile

Oh Gawd, you're going to get me going now! Besides having one of the ugliest games around, he's like a spoiled child on the court! He makes people wait from the beginning of the match to take pictures to toweling off for extended periods between every point! He challenges almost everything and is wrong the majority of the time as well! Nole has picked up that tactic just to balance it all out! Federer would have won a couple of those matches at the FO if not for unsportsman-like behavior by Nadal! People think they're great friends! Nothing could be further from the truth! Nadal even joined the ATP Council in a self-serving capacity trying to get them to change the ranking to a 2 year span rather than the current 1 so he could have stayed at #1 longer! People don't pay attention to these little things, but I've been associated with, played, and taught the game since 1971! I've seen them all including brats like Connors, Nastase, McEnroe, Cliff Richey, & a host of others, but none have offended me with such disengenuousness than Rafa Nadal! It's all an act of self-deprecation, shyness, and being humble while others don't try to hide they're jerks! Only being honest here! Angry Confused No No Tongue

Geesh! No holding back.

I find this interesting, if you are telling the truth. It would be nice, not that I'd believe you, to get some more comments about specific players.

A warning though, some people here will take major offense. Not I, but I guess that's why I'm asking.

I've caught a lot of hell for being honest here and on other message boards! Even if I don't particularly care for a player, I can be quite honest with where they're situated in the history of the game! Tongue Rolleyes Angel Big Smile

(28-Jul-2013 05:00 PM)Kieran Wrote:  I like honesty! And I see nothing wrong with the above. I happen to think Roger gets browbeaten too handily by Nadal. Let's face it, you really think Connors or Sampras would put up with a rival bullying them on court? They might lose (well, Jimmy might) but they'd get at the other guy's throat. There'd be bad blood. Roger goes down too serenely and without fire when they meet in the slams. It's like, it's Rafa's court and they're going through the motions.

But really, I haven't seen a FO match between them that Roger got close to winning. I thought he should have tried stamp Rafa out when he was a pup, in 2005, but Nadal was more than he could handle, even back then, as a "one-dimensional player..." Wink

Agreed! Roger is too nice out there and should call Rafa out on his BS! He's stolen quite a few matches from people in the past from illegal coaching in the stands, to taking time outs at crucial times in a match; esp. at Wimbledon! He should have been upset at least 3 or 4 other times but for his shananigans! Rosol overcame it all last year, but was helped by the roof being closed! Rafa would sooner have come back the next day! They're more than likely mortal enemies now because that kid spanked him on the big stage! Lay Down Laughing Clap Big Smile

"Kneel before your master! Fool; You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
(This post was last modified: 28-Jul-2013 05:11 PM by Fiero425.)
28-Jul-2013 05:05 PM
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britbox Offline
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
1. Roger Federer
2. Pete Sampras
3. Rod Laver
4. Bjorn Borg
5. Rafael Nadal
6. Jimmy Connors
7. Ivan Lendl
8. Pancho Gonzalez
9. John McEnroe
10. Ken Rosewall
28-Jul-2013 05:14 PM
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
(28-Jul-2013 05:05 PM)Fiero425 Wrote:  Agreed! Roger is too nice out there and should call Rafa out on his BS! He's stolen quite a few matches from people in the past from illegal coaching in the stands, to taking time outs at crucial times in a match; esp. at Wimbledon! He should have been upset at least 3 or 4 other times but for his shananigans! Rosol overcame it all last year, but was helped by the roof being closed! Rafa would sooner have come back the next day! They're more than likely mortal enemies now because that kid spanked him on the big stage! Lay Down Laughing Clap Big Smile

Absolutely. To this day, Rafa can't even speak Soderling's name.

The match I often dream of is Rafa v Pete. Two dawgs. Play it on cut-glass and let the loser have to crawl to the other end to shake hands... Big Smile
28-Jul-2013 05:26 PM
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Fiero425 Offline
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
(28-Jul-2013 05:14 PM)britbox Wrote:  1. Roger Federer
2. Pete Sampras
3. Rod Laver
4. Bjorn Borg
5. Rafael Nadal
6. Jimmy Connors
7. Ivan Lendl
8. Pancho Gonzalez
9. John McEnroe
10. Ken Rosewall

It seems you're giving more credit to longevity! More power to you! Interesting, but Rosewall? I'd sooner put Lew Hoad who Rod Laver was 0-7! Sampras never even played in a FO final which is why I placed Laver above him!

(28-Jul-2013 05:26 PM)Kieran Wrote:  
(28-Jul-2013 05:05 PM)Fiero425 Wrote:  Agreed! Roger is too nice out there and should call Rafa out on his BS! He's stolen quite a few matches from people in the past from illegal coaching in the stands, to taking time outs at crucial times in a match; esp. at Wimbledon! He should have been upset at least 3 or 4 other times but for his shananigans! Rosol overcame it all last year, but was helped by the roof being closed! Rafa would sooner have come back the next day! They're more than likely mortal enemies now because that kid spanked him on the big stage! Lay Down Laughing Clap Big Smile

Absolutely. To this day, Rafa can't even speak Soderling's name.

The match I often dream of is Rafa v Pete. Two dawgs. Play it on cut-glass and let the loser have to crawl to the other end to shake hands... Big Smile

As I've said for years, Rafa's a spoiled child! You can always tell when he's resentful of another player! He doesn't even try to hide his contempt! lol! Lay Down Laughing

"Kneel before your master! Fool; You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
(This post was last modified: 28-Jul-2013 05:32 PM by Fiero425.)
28-Jul-2013 05:28 PM
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britbox Offline
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
Rosewall arguably won more majors than anybody if you count pro-slams in the split era. He's far more deserving than Emerson on making a Top 10 list. Emerson and Agassi were never really the dominant player at any point of their career. Rosewall was the best player in the world for a number of years.

All of my top 10 require a period of dominance where they were undisputably the best player in the world, backed up with silverware to match.
28-Jul-2013 05:41 PM
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Fiero425 (07-28-2013)
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
(28-Jul-2013 05:41 PM)britbox Wrote:  Rosewall arguably won more majors than anybody if you count pro-slams in the split era. He's far more deserving than Emerson on making a Top 10 list. Emerson and Agassi were never really the dominant player at any point of their career. Rosewall was the best player in the world for a number of years.

All of my top 10 require a period of dominance where they were undisputably the best player in the world, backed up with silverware to match.

As an Aussie, I can understand your reticence; IIRC, but Rosewall hurt his image hanging on those last years! He was thoroughly embarrassed in '74 by Connors at both Wimbledon and the USO! I seem to remember he even came into Forest Hills as the 11th seed and was upset early on clay! I wondered what could have been on his mind to do that? His major highlights IMO were his 2 WCT wins over Laver; the only championship at the time Rod was unable to win!

"Kneel before your master! Fool; You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
(This post was last modified: 28-Jul-2013 05:58 PM by Fiero425.)
28-Jul-2013 05:47 PM
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britbox Offline
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
I wouldn't be too hard on him for those tournaments, he was 40 years old by then. His real peak was the late 50s/early 60s. Maybe hanging on too long did hurt his legacy a little, but for me he's a shoe-in Top 10. (I'm not an aussie by the way, although I do live here)
28-Jul-2013 05:58 PM
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Fiero425 (07-28-2013)
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
(28-Jul-2013 04:23 PM)Fiero425 Wrote:  
(28-Jul-2013 04:11 PM)Kieran Wrote:  I loved Lendl as a player. He was kind of my favourite after Borg retired, along with Mats. I had no other favourites then, until Pete.

But why do you have no respect for Ralphy? He's such a humble bully... Big Smile

Oh Gawd, you're going to get me going now! Besides having one of the ugliest games around, he's like a spoiled child on the court! He makes people wait from the beginning of the match to take pictures to toweling off for extended periods between every point! He challenges almost everything and is wrong the majority of the time as well! Nole has picked up that tactic just to balance it all out! Federer would have won a couple of those matches at the FO if not for unsportsman-like behavior by Nadal! People think they're great friends! Nothing could be further from the truth! Nadal even joined the ATP Council in a self-serving capacity trying to get them to change the ranking to a 2 year span rather than the current 1 so he could have stayed at #1 longer! People don't pay attention to these little things, but I've been associated with, played, and taught the game since 1971! I've seen them all including brats like Connors, Nastase, McEnroe, Cliff Richey, & a host of others, but none have offended me with such disengenuousness than Rafa Nadal! It's all an act of self-deprecation, shyness, and being humble while others don't try to hide they're jerks! Only being honest here! Angry Confused No No Tongue

Gauntlet thrown down and someone had to bite, so I will. Big Smile

* You think Nadal's game is ugly, but that's a matter of opinion. Many find it thrilling.

* I'd be interested to know which RG final Roger would have beaten Nadal at, in your opinion, had it not been for "unsportsman-like behavior" on the part of Nadal.

* I think Rafa's record on the challenge system is good. The petulant one about it is Roger, who hates it, but uses it, and doesn't have such a great record with it.

* Rafa was on the ATP council also to push for fairer distribution of prize money at the lower levels, which was a good improvement. Federer was on the council, as well, and basically never pushed for anything against the status quo, which was a source of friction between them...probably the only public one. You may not agree with everything that Nadal pushed for, but at least he was activist. He took the job seriously, and didn't just make it a dog-and-pony show.

* I could be wrong, but I believe you find disingenuousness in Nadal because want to find it. I think a great example of Nadal's basic kindness is when Federer melted-down in the '09 AO trophy presentation. There is no way that Rafa could have prepared himself for that eventuality, and he showed himself to be generous, and not over-bearingly proud when accepting the trophy, in deference to Roger. His reaction was instinctive, which, to me, proves the man.

...Have a nice day!
(This post was last modified: 28-Jul-2013 09:25 PM by Moxie629.)
28-Jul-2013 08:27 PM
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
thanks for the wonderful response Smile

you will understand, though, that i'll also have to bite in regards to the fourth point. you surely didn't want to imply this, but saying that Fed "basically never pushed for anything against the status quo, which was a source of friction between them" right after explaining how Rafa pushed for the fairer distribution could make people draw (very) wrong conclusions. the prize money distribution was Never a source of disagreement between the two - as per Rafa's public complaints, it was about Fed being too diplomatic and not pushing for a shortening of the tennis season - something where Roger apparently happens to disagree (and some lower level players might too). also, Fed not only "was" on the council, he still is. and the way towards fairer distribution has been continued even after Rafa left the council, so i guess others were active in that regard, too.


but thanks for the wonderful reminder with the last point. that moment surely was a low point for Roger, in a lot of ways - i know some people hate(d) him for it, and i myself think that he didn't really cope with the situation well at all. he basically almost ruined the ceremony, making it about him rather than about the guy who it's supposed to be about. which is why it's all the more brilliant how wonderfully Rafa handled the whole thing. it was really nice to see, and very impressive on a personal, human kind of level. he showed real greatness there. btw, i do think Roger tried taking a page out of Rafa's playbook at last year's Wimbledon, with respect to Andy (of course, he had the crowd there to remind him to take it down a notch Wink ). still, it was Rafa at the AO who set the bar for gracious winner behavior.
(This post was last modified: 29-Jul-2013 04:49 AM by johnsteinbeck.)
29-Jul-2013 04:32 AM
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
^ Yes, JS, you kindly point out that my juxtaposition of points about Roger on the ATP council wasn't meant to imply that he wasn't instrumental in getting better distribution of monies for players. I was only trying to point out that Rafa's activism wasn't as self-serving as many remember it. He recognized that shortening the calendar, for example, wouldn't happen soon enough to affect him. I didn't agree with the 2-year rolling ranking, personally, but I thought he had Juan Martin Del Potro, for one, in mind, when he suggested it.

As to the AO trophy ceremony, I hesitate to mention it, generally, because I know it's a painful memory for Fed fans. But it's the clearest example I can think of when someone accuses Nadal of false humility. I'm glad you appreciate the graciousness of the moment.
29-Jul-2013 07:50 AM
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
I may be off here, but hasn't Rafa won 8 French Opens? I certainly think the top five would have to include Federer, Sampras, Borg, Laver and then who--Rosewall, Gonzalez or Nadal? Can they all go in? Smile

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29-Jul-2013 09:49 AM
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
(29-Jul-2013 07:50 AM)Moxie629 Wrote:  ^ Yes, JS, you kindly point out that my juxtaposition of points about Roger on the ATP council wasn't meant to imply that he wasn't instrumental in getting better distribution of monies for players. I was only trying to point out that Rafa's activism wasn't as self-serving as many remember it. He recognized that shortening the calendar, for example, wouldn't happen soon enough to affect him. I didn't agree with the 2-year rolling ranking, personally, but I thought he had Juan Martin Del Potro, for one, in mind, when he suggested it.

As to the AO trophy ceremony, I hesitate to mention it, generally, because I know it's a painful memory for Fed fans. But it's the clearest example I can think of when someone accuses Nadal of false humility. I'm glad you appreciate the graciousness of the moment.

Notice how no one touched on the sportsmanship or should I say gamesmanship Nadal has made evident "on the court!?" Not one person can argue about his stalling, challenging of calls, and receiving illegal coaching; so blatant that it was totally passed over! Fine!

"Kneel before your master! Fool; You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
(This post was last modified: 29-Jul-2013 12:49 PM by Fiero425.)
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RE: Revised Top 10 For Men All Time
Come on, that's competitiveness! It's not like he bit off any blokes ear. He takes his time adjusting his underwear, or when he serves, he needs to run through his fabulous array of tics. Even the umps are hypnotised. Federer should complain but he's too nervous. Djoker will say nowt because he dreams of the day he's so "independent" on court.

Nadal's a battler. I recall John Newcombe was Aussie DC captain some time in the nineties and Pete beat Phillippoussis. After the match, Newc remarked that it was only down court side that he fully experienced the hold Sampras had on the court, the personnel, the umpire, his opponent. He said you don't appreciate how physically he dominates the court until you get close enough, and Rafa has that same alpha presence. Would take a Sampras to knock it out of him, not an umpire with a puny rulebook... Smile
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