BOARD TALK
The fastest growing tennis discussion forum on the planet.


Post Reply 
Tennis Mega Trends
Author Message
Clay Death Offline
Grand Slam Champion
*******

Posts: 3,280
Likes Given: 62
Likes Received: 125 in 102 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
Tennis Mega Trends
what is your take of the current dynamics of our sport and the direction it is going?

are you happy with the trends in place and the direction it is going?

what really are the most dynamic trends in our sport?

how would you change it assuming you wanted to and assuming you could?

what about the theory of "converging surfaces"? do you put any stock in it?


you have the floor. have fun and post away.

[Image: forum%20sig-800_zps8nhvcahj.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 28-Jul-2013 06:58 PM by Clay Death.)
16-Jul-2013 06:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Clay Death Offline
Grand Slam Champion
*******

Posts: 3,280
Likes Given: 62
Likes Received: 125 in 102 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
this is a fascinating read.

and a very instructive one for this topic that we are about to embark upon.




http://heavytopspin.com/2013/04/08/the-m...nvergence/

Clay Warrior won Indian Wells. The Great Swiss Assassin won on the blue clay. Even Alessio Di Mauro won a match on a hard court last week.

Thatâ€s just a sliver of the anecdotal evidence for one of the most common complaints about contemporary ATP tennis: Surface speeds are converging. Hard courts used to play faster, allowing for more variety in the game and providing more opportunities to different types of players. Or so the story goes.

This debate skipped the stage of determining whether the convergence is actually happening. The media has moved straight to the more controversial subject of whether it should. (Coincidentally, itâ€s easier to churn out columns about the latter.)

We can test these things, and weâ€re going to in a minute. First, itâ€s important to clarify what exactly we mean by surface speed, and what we can and cannot learn about it from traditional match statistics.

There are many factors that contribute to how fast a tennis ball moves through the air (altitude, humidity, ball type) and many that affect the nature of the bounce (all of the same, plus surface). If youâ€re actually on court, hitting balls, youâ€ll notice a lot of details: how high the ball is bouncing, how fast it seems to come off of your opponentâ€s racket, how the surface and the atmosphere are affecting spin, and more. Hawkeye allows us to quantify some of those things, but the available data is very limited.

While things like ball bounce and shot speed can be quantified, they havenâ€t been tracked for long enough to help us here. Weâ€re stuck with the same old stats — aces, serve percentages, break points, and so on.

Thus, when we talk about “surface speed” or “court speed,” weâ€re not just talking about the immediate physical characteristics of the concrete, lawn, or dirt. Instead, weâ€re referring to how the surface–together with the weather, the altitude, the balls, and a handful of other minor factors–affects play. I canâ€t tell you whether balls bounced faster on hard courts in 2012 than in 1992. But I can tell you that players hit about 25% more aces.

Quantifying the convergence

In what follows, weâ€ll use two stats: ace rate and break rate. When courts play faster, there are more aces and fewer breaks of serve. The slower the court, the more the advantage swings to the returner, limiting free points on serve and increasing the frequency of service breaks.

To compare hard courts to clay courts, I looked for instances where the same pair of players faced off during the same year on both surfaces. There are plenty–about 100 such pairs for each of the last dozen years, and about 80 per year before that, back to 1991. Focusing on these head-to-heads prevents us from giving too much weight to players who play almost exclusively on one surface. Andy Roddick helped increase the ace rate and decrease the break rate on hard courts for years, but he barely influences the clay court numbers, since he skipped so many of those tournaments.

Thus, weâ€re comparing apples to apples, like the matches this year between David Ferrer and Fabio Fognini. On clay, Ferrer aced Fognini only once per hundred service points; on hard, he did so six times as often. Any one matchup could be misleading, but combine 100 of them and you have something worth looking at. (This methodology, unfortunately, precludes measuring grass-court speed. There simply arenâ€t enough matches on grass to give us a reliable sample.)

Aggregate all the clay court matches and all the hard court matches, and you have overall numbers that can be compared. For instance, in 2012, service breaks accounted for 22.0% of these games on clay, against 20.5% of games on hard. Divide one by the other, and we can see that the clay-court break rate is 7.4% higher than its hard-court counterpart.

Thatâ€s one of the smallest differences of the last 20 years, but itâ€s far from the whole story. Run the same algorithm for every season back to 1991 (the extent of available stats), and you have everything from a 2.8% difference in 2002 to a 32.8% difference in 2003. Smooth the outliers by calculating five-year moving averages, and you get finally get something a bit more meaningful:

breakdiff

The larger the difference, the bigger the difference between hard and clay courts. The most extreme five-year period in this span was 2003-07, when there were 25.4% more breaks on clay courts than on hard courts. There has been a steady decline since then (to 16.9% for 2008-12), but not to as low a point as the early 90s (14.0% for 1991-1996), and only a bit lower than the turn of the century (17.8% for 1998-2002). These numbers hardly identify the good old days when men were men and hard courts were hard.

When we turn to ace rate, the trend provides even less support for the surface-convergence theory. Here are the same 5-year averages, representing the difference between hard-court ace rate and clay-court ace rate:

acediff2

Here again, the most diverse results occurred during the 5-year span from 2003 to 2007, when hard-court aces were 51.3% higher than clay-court aces. Since then, the difference has fallen to 46%, still a relatively large gap, one that only occurred in two single years before 2003.

If surfaces are converging, why is there a bigger difference in aces now than there was 10, 15, or 20 years ago? Why donâ€t we see hard-court break rates getting any closer to clay-court break rates?

However fast or high balls are bouncing off of todayâ€s tennis surfaces, courts just arenâ€t playing any less diversely than they used to. In the last 20 years, the game has changed in any number of ways, some of which can make hard-court matches look like clay-court contests and vice versa. But with the profiles of clay and hard courts relatively unchanged over the last 20 years, itâ€s time for pundits to find something else to complain about.

[Image: forum%20sig-800_zps8nhvcahj.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 16-Jul-2013 08:56 PM by Clay Death.)
16-Jul-2013 08:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Haelfix Offline
Seasoned Pro
****

Posts: 250
Likes Given: 4
Likes Received: 182 in 101 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
I don't really agree with the authors methodology or his choice of which statistics to focus on.

It's not clear whether more or less ace's really has anything to do with surface speed, and anecdotally i'd say the surface bounce was much more important. (For instance, the two best serves in the mens game, Isner and Raonic, both struggle getting aces on grass relative to slower HCs)

It's also not clear that perhaps returners have gotten much better at returning first serves, relative to previous eras (and this seems to be an empirical trend on the ATP tour) and so this introduces a bias in the stats.

It's also contrary to what most players say, and indeed the choice to slow down courts by choosing different balls is quite a conscious one and not a conjecture. Tournament officials readily confirm this (for instance, the balls men use and the balls women use are completely different).
17-Jul-2013 11:21 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Haelfix's post:
Didi (07-28-2013)
Riotbeard Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 4,786
Likes Given: 5,516
Likes Received: 1,846 in 1,180 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
This also doesn't take into account racket/string differences that could account for additional controlled power. Likewise the popularity of the body serve in earlier eras that is now used much less could account for ace difference, perhaps service winner would be a more telling stat. It also implies that the only way to play power or aggressive tennis is by going winners. Del Potro is a good example of this. For a guy who hits the serve and groundstrokes as big as he does, his winner and ace counts are often relatively low compared to someone like janowicz who hits more for winners, and less bludgeons his opponent.

Overall, the article presents an interesting question and some good data, but it is far from conclusive. I tend to buy what players say, along with the way game style has changed in relation to courts, and most players say there is more surface speed convergence.

As far as the larger question, my answer is yes and no. I love watching a lot of the top players right now, and I think we get to regularly see herculean physical battles. That in and of itself gives this era value and a different feeling from other great tennis eras. On the other hand, I would like to see more competing styles at the top of game, at least one player who is not a baseliner, seriously in the mix. I love watching the true allcourters like Fed, Benneteau, and Fish, and would at least settle for more of this style toward the top. I like baseliners (Novak is my favorite player with Delpo and Fish as number 2's and janowicz is my favorite young guy), so it's not that I like I don't like baseline tennis, but I would like to see different styles clash like the great agassi/sampras battles.

On a similar note, I would like to see some more fiery characters in the men's game, who don't have to be liked by everybody else on the tour. There are signs of hope though. I like Janowicz's attitude along with Gulbis, who seem to have a little bit more attitude.

All of this doesn't mean I don't love watching tennis today.
17-Jul-2013 12:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Clay Death Offline
Grand Slam Champion
*******

Posts: 3,280
Likes Given: 62
Likes Received: 125 in 102 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
so what is the verdict?


1. are the courts converging?

2. does it even matter with the runaway speed and the power in the game. I mean you cant volley what you cant see.

even the women are blasting near 90-95 MPH drives into the corners.

men can hit 100 MPH forehands with spin. you will break your wrist volleying such a ball assuming you saw it and were close enough to it to volley it in the first place.


going to the net entails huge risk. you can only go in on your own terms or not at all.


slice is great to have but top players eat slices for breakfast. you can only use it to get out of trouble or to try to draw somebody in if you can hit it like roger.


they could be playing on ice and they would still have to wage war from the backcourt.


so the variety that you saw 15 years ago is gone for good. the new imperatives of the sport are such that variety just doesn't pay the mortgage.

it looks pretty but you cant win slams with it.

are you happy with the way the war is being waged on the court?

[Image: forum%20sig-800_zps8nhvcahj.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 17-Jul-2013 11:28 PM by Clay Death.)
17-Jul-2013 11:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Riotbeard Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 4,786
Likes Given: 5,516
Likes Received: 1,846 in 1,180 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
(17-Jul-2013 11:26 PM)Clay Death Wrote:  so what is the verdict?


1. are the courts converging?

2. does it even matter with the runaway speed and the power in the game. I mean you cant volley what you cant see.

even the women are blasting near 90-95 MPH drives into the corners.

men can hit 100 MPH forehands with spin. you will break your wrist volleying such a ball assuming you saw it and were close enough to it to volley it in the first place.


going to the net entails huge risk. you can only go in on your own terms or not at all.


slice is great to have but top players eat slices for breakfast. you can only use it to get out of trouble or to try to draw somebody in if you can hit it like roger.


they could be playing on ice and they would still have to wage war from the backcourt.


so the variety that you saw 15 years ago is gone for good. the new imperatives of the sport are such that variety just doesn't pay the mortgage.

it looks pretty but you cant win slams with it.

are you happy with the way the war is being waged on the court?

I am not sure all of that is true. Murray hits with a lot of variety. Even Novak has made the net a much bigger part of his strategy. There are a couple of all-court players who have very good results including Federer, tsonga, and Fish.
18-Jul-2013 09:23 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Front242 Offline
Dyslexia For Cure Found
*********

Posts: 15,762
Likes Given: 2,925
Likes Received: 3,609 in 2,602 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
I'll be happier if they ever grow a pair and do proper doping tests. Biological passports in the pipeline but the testing in tennis is a beyond a joke. So in that respect no I'm not happy at all with how it's going but if they do proper testing it can only make things better.
18-Jul-2013 03:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
the AntiPusher Offline
Multiple Slam Winner
********

Posts: 5,161
Likes Given: 919
Likes Received: 1,282 in 962 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
(18-Jul-2013 03:04 PM)Front242 Wrote:  I'll be happier if they ever grow a pair and do proper doping tests. Biological passports in the pipeline but the testing in tennis is a beyond a joke. So in that respect no I'm not happy at all with how it's going but if they do proper testing it can only make things better.

So you are implying that proper doping testing is going to make the game better to watch? How? Please enlighten us( or just me)
18-Jul-2013 03:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Front242 Offline
Dyslexia For Cure Found
*********

Posts: 15,762
Likes Given: 2,925
Likes Received: 3,609 in 2,602 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
(18-Jul-2013 03:14 PM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  
(18-Jul-2013 03:04 PM)Front242 Wrote:  I'll be happier if they ever grow a pair and do proper doping tests. Biological passports in the pipeline but the testing in tennis is a beyond a joke. So in that respect no I'm not happy at all with how it's going but if they do proper testing it can only make things better.

So you are implying that proper doping testing is going to make the game better to watch? How? Please enlighten us( or just me)

A fairer, much more even playing field where if a player goes through multiple long matches they do actually show signs of fatigue in their next match and not this iron man energizer bunny juiced up nonsense when they never slow down much and play for hours on end. It's not in the slightest bit natural and they may be fooling some people but not me.
18-Jul-2013 03:32 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
El Dude Online
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,662
Likes Given: 614
Likes Received: 2,344 in 1,260 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
I have no idea whether "converging surfaces" is true or not, but if it is I don't like it. Viva la difference.

I'd like to hear what older players - Federer, Haas, Stepanek, Lubjicic, Karlovic, Hewitt, Ferrer, etc - have to say about this, especially those guys that played in the late 90s.
18-Jul-2013 04:05 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
the AntiPusher Offline
Multiple Slam Winner
********

Posts: 5,161
Likes Given: 919
Likes Received: 1,282 in 962 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
(18-Jul-2013 03:32 PM)Front242 Wrote:  
(18-Jul-2013 03:14 PM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  
(18-Jul-2013 03:04 PM)Front242 Wrote:  I'll be happier if they ever grow a pair and do proper doping tests. Biological passports in the pipeline but the testing in tennis is a beyond a joke. So in that respect no I'm not happy at all with how it's going but if they do proper testing it can only make things better.

So you are implying that proper doping testing is going to make the game better to watch? How? Please enlighten us( or just me)

A fairer, much more even playing field where if a player goes through multiple long matches they do actually show signs of fatigue in their next match and not this iron man energizer bunny juiced up nonsense when they never slow down much and play for hours on end. It's not in the slightest bit natural and they may be fooling some people but not me.

Trust me.. I get your point but this is what you will get for the GS and MS finals.. davydenko vs nadal/ Ferrer\Federer or Ferrer\Djoker or Murray instead of what we have today Nadal\Djoker.. Djoker\Federer or Murray\Nadal, Federer or Djoker

No way for me.. leave things as the areClap
(This post was last modified: 18-Jul-2013 04:34 PM by the AntiPusher.)
18-Jul-2013 04:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
tented Offline
Potential GOAT
*********

Posts: 11,618
Likes Given: 4,705
Likes Received: 3,392 in 2,108 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
(18-Jul-2013 03:32 PM)Front242 Wrote:  
(18-Jul-2013 03:14 PM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  
(18-Jul-2013 03:04 PM)Front242 Wrote:  I'll be happier if they ever grow a pair and do proper doping tests. Biological passports in the pipeline but the testing in tennis is a beyond a joke. So in that respect no I'm not happy at all with how it's going but if they do proper testing it can only make things better.

So you are implying that proper doping testing is going to make the game better to watch? How? Please enlighten us( or just me)

A fairer, much more even playing field where if a player goes through multiple long matches they do actually show signs of fatigue in their next match and not this iron man energizer bunny juiced up nonsense when they never slow down much and play for hours on end. It's not in the slightest bit natural and they may be fooling some people but not me.

Careful ...

Federer/Del Potro 2012 Olympics - 4 hours, 26 minutes
Federer/Del Potro 2009 USO - 4 hours, 4 minutes
Federer/Nadal 2006 Rome - 5 hours, 5 minutes
Federer/Nadal 2008 Wimbledon - 4 hours, 48 minutes
Federer/Roddick 2009 Wimbledon - 4 hours, 16 minutes
Federer/Nadal 2009 AO - 4 hours, 19 minutes
18-Jul-2013 05:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Clay Death Offline
Grand Slam Champion
*******

Posts: 3,280
Likes Given: 62
Likes Received: 125 in 102 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
so we are taking on quite a few trends here. and even some perceived trends.

lets take inventory of these trends and perceived trends:

1. convergence of surfaces

2. loss of variety in the sport

3. some are saying that atp resembles wta these days

4. doping


interesting. any other trends? and are we happy with these trends? I am not sure if any of the true insiders of the sport would buy doping.

the sport of tennis requires an immense amount of skill. no amount of doping is going to produce a roger Federer or a nadal.

also what about the relentless will? how would doping bring that about?


what would it take to make you happy?

[Image: forum%20sig-800_zps8nhvcahj.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 18-Jul-2013 07:21 PM by Clay Death.)
18-Jul-2013 07:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Kieran Offline
Running around the backhand...
*********

Posts: 11,424
Likes Given: 6,966
Likes Received: 4,546 in 2,998 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
I think a recent trend is one away from Fedal - and one where the makeweights are beginning to grow a pair. Both these things are related and welcome. The day we have the world #10 enter a slam with a conviction to win the thing and not be content with a fat gold watch and a grinning cuddle at the net after losing to the world #4, we're headin' the right road.

As for doping and players coming back two days later after winning a four hour match, in 1980 John McEnroe beat Jimmy Connors 7-6 in the fifth on Super Saturday, after about 4 hours - and 16 hours later took the court and beat Borg 6-4 in the fifth. It's not all about drugs, if McEnroe could do it back then...
19-Jul-2013 05:50 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Kieran's post:
Moxie629 (07-20-2013), tented (07-19-2013)
johnsteinbeck Offline
Major Winner
******

Posts: 1,010
Likes Given: 338
Likes Received: 307 in 177 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
^ good info on McEnroe and his own marathons.

as to your trends: Wimbledon was thought to be a sign of both - away from Fedal, ballsier makeweights. however, i think that might be misleading, as the second week showed. because in the end, this was yet another Djokurray final. so i think Fedal's early losses were simply them fading rather than the lower ranks being braver than before.

i think the system is still very open for true dominance from the top. i think it's a race right now, as to who'll get the foot in the door and take up the slots at the top that Rafa and Roger are beginning to leave vacant.
19-Jul-2013 06:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes johnsteinbeck's post:
Kieran (07-19-2013)
tented Offline
Potential GOAT
*********

Posts: 11,618
Likes Given: 4,705
Likes Received: 3,392 in 2,108 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
(19-Jul-2013 05:50 AM)Kieran Wrote:  I think a recent trend is one away from Fedal - and one where the makeweights are beginning to grow a pair. Both these things are related and welcome. The day we have the world #10 enter a slam with a conviction to win the thing and not be content with a fat gold watch and a grinning cuddle at the net after losing to the world #4, we're headin' the right road.

As for doping and players coming back two days later after winning a four hour match, in 1980 John McEnroe beat Jimmy Connors 7-6 in the fifth on Super Saturday, after about 4 hours - and 16 hours later took the court and beat Borg 6-4 in the fifth. It's not all about drugs, if McEnroe could do it back then...

I think your two paragraphs are related. The most fit players are going to be the most successful. Borg was legendary for his fitness, as is now the case with the Big Four. That's a key ingredient to their (typically) getting beyond the first few rounds, and winning so many tournaments.

It's also an indication of their drive and desire to win, and not be content with the gold watch and hug at the net. I look at guys like Dimitrov, Dolgopolov, Gasquet, Simon, etc., and absolutely cannot understand why they don't improve their fitness and strength. Murray, Djokovic, Rafa, and Roger are all examples of guys who are fit and take care of their bodies, eat properly, exercise, work out, and their levels of success reflect that. It isn't necessary to point to steroids being a factor for Roger's unprecedented lack of injury, never having retired from a match, etc. He's simply fit.
19-Jul-2013 07:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like tented's post:
Kieran (07-19-2013), Moxie629 (07-20-2013)
Riotbeard Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 4,786
Likes Given: 5,516
Likes Received: 1,846 in 1,180 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
I don't think tennis has a huge doping problem either. These guys are in insane shape because they have teams of trainers and nutritionists that put them into insane regimentation. I also think its worth pointing out that at this wimbledon, there is a good chance novak was affected by his semi-final in the final. I am not saying that is why he lost, but he didn't come out fresh as a daisy.
19-Jul-2013 01:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Clay Death Offline
Grand Slam Champion
*******

Posts: 3,280
Likes Given: 62
Likes Received: 125 in 102 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
no amount of doping can help you win big tournaments (masters series events) and slams.

this is a very high level skill sport. doping doesn't buy you skills.


and its a sport of incredible athletic ability. either you have that amazing movement or you don't.

doping doesn't buy you speed and movement.

[Image: forum%20sig-800_zps8nhvcahj.jpg]
20-Jul-2013 07:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Moxie629 Offline
Multiple Slam Winner
********

Posts: 9,429
Likes Given: 3,414
Likes Received: 2,277 in 1,599 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
(19-Jul-2013 01:46 PM)Riotbeard Wrote:  I don't think tennis has a huge doping problem either. These guys are in insane shape because they have teams of trainers and nutritionists that put them into insane regimentation. I also think its worth pointing out that at this wimbledon, there is a good chance novak was affected by his semi-final in the final. I am not saying that is why he lost, but he didn't come out fresh as a daisy.

I agree that one of the reasons they're so fit is that they work at it. And I thought about Djokovic in the Wimbledon final, too. We knew he could recuperate physically, because he did in AO '12 after a massive SF v. Murray and win in 5 v. Nadal. But he did seem mentally spent, which could be an accumulative effect, thinking of RG, too. Not to take anything away from Murray, who definitely walked in like he was not going to be denied again. But I'm pretty sure even HE'S surprised he won in straights. Doping can give you stamina, as I understand it, but it can't give you any help mentally and emotionally.

(20-Jul-2013 07:21 PM)Clay Death Wrote:  no amount of doping can help you win big tournaments (masters series events) and slams.
this is a very high level skill sport. doping doesn't buy you skills.
and its a sport of incredible athletic ability. either you have that amazing movement or you don't.
doping doesn't buy you speed and movement.

And it also doesn't buy you a tennis IQ...knowing when to use what shots. And you have to have the shots, before any dope could buff them up.

Overall, I don't think tennis is a sport where the athlete would gain much from doping. A certain amount of strength and stamina, but compared to all the other skills, physical and mental, that they need, which can only come from training and talent, in a cost-benefit analysis, it doesn't pay off.
20-Jul-2013 10:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Clay Death Offline
Grand Slam Champion
*******

Posts: 3,280
Likes Given: 62
Likes Received: 125 in 102 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going
excellent point princess moxie. this is a thinking man`s game as well where you have to do a lot of problem solving as the match wears on.


no amount of doping can give you the ability to solve problems on the court.

as much as it is a brutal combat the very top of the sport, it is also quite mental and cerebral.

[Image: forum%20sig-800_zps8nhvcahj.jpg]
20-Jul-2013 10:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)