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The Questions about Roger...
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Kieran Offline
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The Questions about Roger...
The whispering has begun. The Big 3 has seen one removed silently, and another step in easily. Federer is gone! He's too old, he has kids, he's not motivated, his schedule is too light, his backhand is too obvious a target, his nerve doesn't hold, and most crucially of all: his constituency has ceased voting for him.

What I mean by this last is, the Tsonga's and Berdych's of the tennis world, the tough guy Navy Seals who balk at the Biggies, the courtiers he used as target practice before he had a rival, have begun to grow cocky around the King. Those kind of players used to roll over but now they strut. Even Tommy Haas, his banker, has beaten him. The Aura is gone! To win a slam, Roger no longer perambulates grinningly through the draw. Snipers will take their shot.

And it's happening to Nadal too, although Rafa is younger and still has the intensity, if the knees will hold out, to cause huge waves on the HC's.

But Roger is inching towards the Grey Havens. And why not? What else does he have to prove? Nothing else would add to his greatness and no defeats diminish it. So he stands at that moment between committing to more that would give him huge personal satisfaction, but which isn't guaranteed and could come at a cost.

Or committing to less and fading away.

Which is it?

Or is it neither?
08-Jul-2013 04:55 AM
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herios Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
For me, from here on, he will be monitored to see what kind of final chapter his tremendous career will have. It will be like Sampras? Struggling a year or so, win another slam then retire? Or fight right back into the top 3-4 once he has fallen out of it?
The next HC season will give us a lot to discuss and how he will play there will be interesting.
Cincy especially, which was without a doubt, one of his fortresses.
But I have already checked the odds for the upcoming USO and he is placed only as the distant 4th favorite only a very narrow margin over Delpo who's 5th. This actually makes sense, because JMDP had his best slam since 2009 just last week, while he had his worst in 10 years.
08-Jul-2013 06:07 AM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
(08-Jul-2013 04:55 AM)Kieran Wrote:  The whispering has begun. The Big 3 has seen one removed silently, and another step in easily. Federer is gone! He's too old, he has kids, he's not motivated, his schedule is too light, his backhand is too obvious a target, his nerve doesn't hold, and most crucially of all: his constituency has ceased voting for him.

What I mean by this last is, the Tsonga's and Berdych's of the tennis world, the tough guy Navy Seals who balk at the Biggies, the courtiers he used as target practice before he had a rival, have begun to grow cocky around the King. Those kind of players used to roll over but now they strut. Even Tommy Haas, his banker, has beaten him. The Aura is gone! To win a slam, Roger no longer perambulates grinningly through the draw. Snipers will take their shot.

And it's happening to Nadal too, although Rafa is younger and still has the intensity, if the knees will hold out, to cause huge waves on the HC's.

But Roger is inching towards the Grey Havens. And why not? What else does he have to prove? Nothing else would add to his greatness and no defeats diminish it. So he stands at that moment between committing to more that would give him huge personal satisfaction, but which isn't guaranteed and could come at a cost.

Or committing to less and fading away.

Which is it?

Or is it neither?


More wins will always add to his greatness. Motivation has been a question since he got #15. At this point ability is also a question. It might be too early to say if the last 12 months are a result of not having that fire anymore (completely understandable) or just not being that good anymore. Maybe I'm optimistic in thinking it's the former. I do think despite recent evidence that Roger can still play and is not truly a worse player than David frickin Ferrer. But he will have to show something soon or it will just make it that much tougher to turn it around.
08-Jul-2013 07:01 AM
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the AntiPusher Online
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
If 2016 is the apocalypse in Men's tennis for the big four(Fed, Rafa, Djoker and Murray) for being dominant, Fed will be the lone cockroach hanging around and a real threat to win a major. Every year my good friend DarthFed or someone starts these threads and Roger finds a way to stay prominent in Men tennis. In the movie Butch Cassidy and the Sundance, Sundance asked Butch, "what can we do about this all star posse that has been assembled just to capture the entire hole and the wall gang, Butch responded, "we will just outlast the bastards",.. Fed is Butch.
(This post was last modified: 08-Jul-2013 07:59 AM by the AntiPusher.)
08-Jul-2013 07:31 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
(08-Jul-2013 07:31 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  Fed is Butch.

Yeah, he looks really butch here, with his gold embroidered manbag...

[Image: _42421980_trousers300.jpg]
08-Jul-2013 07:58 AM
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shawnbm (07-08-2013)
the AntiPusher Online
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
(08-Jul-2013 07:58 AM)Kieran Wrote:  
(08-Jul-2013 07:31 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  Fed is Butch.

Yeah, he looks really butch here, with his gold embroidered manbag...

[Image: _42421980_trousers300.jpg]

You know, I knew once I said Butch, that someone would go there.. I am going to say what the good Reverend at my church says so often, "I am gonna leave that alone."
08-Jul-2013 08:02 AM
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Front242 Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
(08-Jul-2013 07:58 AM)Kieran Wrote:  
(08-Jul-2013 07:31 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  Fed is Butch.

Yeah, he looks really butch here, with his gold embroidered manbag...

[Image: _42421980_trousers300.jpg]

Haha well hard to disagree with that photo but then again we can all post dodgy photos of the top players. Check out these two Tongue

[Image: novak-djokovic-rafael-nadal-gay-whirlpoo...s-play.gif]
(This post was last modified: 08-Jul-2013 08:08 AM by Front242.)
08-Jul-2013 08:07 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
That's Djoker beside Rafa, is it? Don't think they're naked though. But WTF are they doing? If Lendl had got in a jacuzzi with McEnroe (and they wouldn't, believe me) there'd be skin and hair flying...
08-Jul-2013 08:09 AM
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Front242 Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
(08-Jul-2013 08:09 AM)Kieran Wrote:  That's Djoker beside Rafa, is it? Don't think they're naked though. But WTF are they doing? If Lendl had got in a jacuzzi with McEnroe (and they wouldn't, believe me) there'd be skin and hair flying...

Probably not naked but they don't really look all that much more butch than old Wodge is all I'm saying CoolWink
08-Jul-2013 08:13 AM
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nehmeth Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
(08-Jul-2013 08:09 AM)Kieran Wrote:  That's Djoker beside Rafa, is it? Don't think they're naked though. But WTF are they doing? If Lendl had got in a jacuzzi with McEnroe (and they wouldn't, believe me) there'd be skin and hair flying...

If it were McEnroe and Lendl... one or the other would be found floating face down. Puzzled
08-Jul-2013 08:25 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
(08-Jul-2013 08:13 AM)Front242 Wrote:  Probably not naked but they don't really look all that much more butch than old Wodge is all I'm saying CoolWink

They look grand, but the sailor suit? Why'd he give that up? The Village People wanted it back? And the man-bag? Is that in a charity shop somewhere now? Big Smile
08-Jul-2013 08:28 AM
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shawnbm Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
(08-Jul-2013 07:58 AM)Kieran Wrote:  
(08-Jul-2013 07:31 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  Fed is Butch.

Yeah, he looks really butch here, with his gold embroidered manbag...

[Image: _42421980_trousers300.jpg]

What a retort! LOLClap

Virgil Cane is the name ...
08-Jul-2013 09:15 AM
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ricardo Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
(08-Jul-2013 04:55 AM)Kieran Wrote:  The whispering has begun. The Big 3 has seen one removed silently, and another step in easily. Federer is gone! He's too old, he has kids, he's not motivated, his schedule is too light, his backhand is too obvious a target, his nerve doesn't hold, and most crucially of all: his constituency has ceased voting for him.

What I mean by this last is, the Tsonga's and Berdych's of the tennis world, the tough guy Navy Seals who balk at the Biggies, the courtiers he used as target practice before he had a rival, have begun to grow cocky around the King. Those kind of players used to roll over but now they strut. Even Tommy Haas, his banker, has beaten him. The Aura is gone! To win a slam, Roger no longer perambulates grinningly through the draw. Snipers will take their shot.

And it's happening to Nadal too, although Rafa is younger and still has the intensity, if the knees will hold out, to cause huge waves on the HC's.

But Roger is inching towards the Grey Havens. And why not? What else does he have to prove? Nothing else would add to his greatness and no defeats diminish it. So he stands at that moment between committing to more that would give him huge personal satisfaction, but which isn't guaranteed and could come at a cost.

Or committing to less and fading away.

Which is it?

Or is it neither?

wrong, they didn't use to roll over and they've always tried to win. You can always draw such observation in hindsight, when they lost to him they were bowing to him, now they fight to beat him when they win..... everyone can be smart in hindsight.

If you notice in Sergei's interview, he has always been full of admiration of Federer and thinks he is simply the best.... even as a person. But that didn't stop him from playing his heart out to beat Fed right? i don't think in Fed's younger days he would try any less, and maybe he couldn't beat Fed because Fed was a little better then? and now he is a bit past his prime?

Anyway that kind of rolling over for certain player is an unnecessary bollock derived from weak competition talk. The evidence was clear for all to see, Sergei played a hell of a match against a legend who is no longer playing at his peak.
08-Jul-2013 09:15 AM
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El Dude Online
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
Nice use of Tolkien there, Kieran.

I think the answer: who knows? As he stands right now he's a step down from the Big Three, and more in the next group (and it could be that Delpo has surpassed him as well). I see no reason why he couldn't hang out in the lower half of the top ten for another two or three years, even to the 2016 Olympics which he says he wants to play in.

But I think the big question is not whether he can remain a very good player for years to come, but whether he has it in him to win another Slam. And no one knows the answer that. The US Open is huge. I suspect he'll make it to the SF or later, but another early upset could really be a sign that this is the end.
08-Jul-2013 09:20 AM
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shawnbm Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
All that aura Federer had (I think it has diminished in the last year or so) was EARNED--just like Rafa has earned his, as well as Novak and every great player. Murray is building his up and this victory is a big step towards it. The elilte players earn the little extra advantage that makes the other press, miss the service more frequently, lug around the court in heavy feet, miss the "easy" putaway. They earn it by excelling over a long period of time and stepping up to take what they think is rightfully theirs. Federer has had it as long or longer than anyone; Rafa and Novak still got it.

As for Roger and Kieran's inquiry, I feel as though Fed plays for posterity and he will take what he can get. He still wants majors, but he plays more for his daughters and to add things here and there. I question whether he is going to play much more after this year, especially if his summer hard court season is less than successful. How can he still wish to practice like he has over the years?

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08-Jul-2013 09:20 AM
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tennisville Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
(08-Jul-2013 07:31 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  If 2016 is the apocalypse in Men's tennis for the big four(Fed, Rafa, Djoker and Murray) for being dominant, Fed will be the lone cockroach hanging around and a real threat to win a major. Every year my good friend DarthFed or someone starts these threads and Roger finds a way to stay prominent in Men tennis. In the movie Butch Cassidy and the Sundance, Sundance asked Butch, "what can we do about this all star posse that has been assembled just to capture the entire hole and the wall gang, Butch responded, "we will just outlast the bastards",.. Fed is Butch.

The thing with such talk is we will never know when he actually starts to fade until he retires . Only when he retires (like say 2015) can we say that such and such loss was the start of the end . For all we know the end might have happenned already and we just dont know it yet
08-Jul-2013 09:39 AM
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crystalfire Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
(08-Jul-2013 07:01 AM)DarthFed Wrote:  
(08-Jul-2013 04:55 AM)Kieran Wrote:  The whispering has begun. The Big 3 has seen one removed silently, and another step in easily. Federer is gone! He's too old, he has kids, he's not motivated, his schedule is too light, his backhand is too obvious a target, his nerve doesn't hold, and most crucially of all: his constituency has ceased voting for him.

What I mean by this last is, the Tsonga's and Berdych's of the tennis world, the tough guy Navy Seals who balk at the Biggies, the courtiers he used as target practice before he had a rival, have begun to grow cocky around the King. Those kind of players used to roll over but now they strut. Even Tommy Haas, his banker, has beaten him. The Aura is gone! To win a slam, Roger no longer perambulates grinningly through the draw. Snipers will take their shot.

And it's happening to Nadal too, although Rafa is younger and still has the intensity, if the knees will hold out, to cause huge waves on the HC's.

But Roger is inching towards the Grey Havens. And why not? What else does he have to prove? Nothing else would add to his greatness and no defeats diminish it. So he stands at that moment between committing to more that would give him huge personal satisfaction, but which isn't guaranteed and could come at a cost.

Or committing to less and fading away.

Which is it?

Or is it neither?


More wins will always add to his greatness. Motivation has been a question since he got #15. At this point ability is also a question. It might be too early to say if the last 12 months are a result of not having that fire anymore (completely understandable) or just not being that good anymore. Maybe I'm optimistic in thinking it's the former. I do think despite recent evidence that Roger can still play and is not truly a worse player than David frickin Ferrer. But he will have to show something soon or it will just make it that much tougher to turn it around.

my thoughts also. whatever happens hes better than david ferrer. even tho rankings say otherwise
08-Jul-2013 09:51 AM
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El Dude Online
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
(08-Jul-2013 09:39 AM)tennisville Wrote:  The thing with such talk is we will never know when he actually starts to fade until he retires . Only when he retires (like say 2015) can we say that such and such loss was the start of the end . For all we know the end might have happenned already and we just dont know it yet

To some extent I think we already know that - it was Wimbledon, 2008, when Roger lost to Rafa and the mantle of "best player in the game" was passed. Aside from his injury-plagued 2009, Rafa held that mantle for a couple years until late 2010 or early 2011, when Novak took it from him. Then, since about a year ago, it has been passed between Novak, Roger, Rafa, and Andy.

But I think Wimbledon 2008 was the end of Federer's truly dominant period. He was close to the same player for a couple more years, but Rafa was simply better. 2010 marked another step down, which has been where he was at until summer last year with his "Indian Summer" season.

But in terms of the phrasing you use - "start of the end" - there are steps, one in 2008, one in 2010, and one in 2013 with his loss to Stakhovsky. The question now is if he can have another resurgence, not whether he's declining - because that's obvious.
08-Jul-2013 10:02 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
^^ Great post, El Dude!
08-Jul-2013 12:04 PM
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tenisplayrla08 Offline
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RE: The Questions about Roger...
Well I'm not going to read the whole thread, but I know I'm not the only one who's noticed, Fed fell to #5 today. It's the first time he's been ranked outside the top 4 since the week before Wimbledon in 2003. Literally 10 years inside the top 4. A good half of those at #1, and another good portion as part of the top 2. And really, all but about 10 or 15 weeks spent inside the top 3. He's at least got a couple here at #5. A big Cincy and Montreal would help though. Well, a big Montreal would help. He has to defend the title in Cincy. But, they likely won't get him back to #4 or higher seeing as Nadal has no points to defend at either and Ferrer has all of 10 points to defend between them. Basically he'll need to win the US Open to get back in. Which doesn't seem likely.
08-Jul-2013 01:50 PM
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