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Poll: Who is the Goatess?
This poll is closed.
Steffi Graf 23.81% 10 23.81%
Martina Navratilova 23.81% 10 23.81%
Chris Evert 11.90% 5 11.90%
Margaret Court 2.38% 1 2.38%
Serena Williams 33.33% 14 33.33%
Somebody else? 4.76% 2 4.76%
Total 42 votes 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
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Kieran Offline
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
(20-Jul-2013 01:34 PM)britbox Wrote:  Anyway brother, Edberg's hypothetical mumps in 1988 - who wins Wimbey?

If you had have said knees, then Federer, of course, but since you said mumps, then there's only one answer:

Steffi! Tongue
20-Jul-2013 01:41 PM
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britbox Offline
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
(20-Jul-2013 01:41 PM)Kieran Wrote:  
(20-Jul-2013 01:34 PM)britbox Wrote:  Anyway brother, Edberg's hypothetical mumps in 1988 - who wins Wimbey?

If you had have said knees, then Federer, of course, but since you said mumps, then there's only one answer:

Steffi! Tongue
Smile Incidentally, Steffi had pretty severe knee problems causing her to miss four majors in 97/98 but never used them or any other injuries as an excuse for any losses. A class act.
20-Jul-2013 10:12 PM
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
Wertheim after Wimbledon 2010


Serena demonstrated yet again that there has never been a better female player. Yes, that's right. Strip away the nonsense and the breaches of etiquette and there's only this: Serena Williams is the GOAT, the Greatest of All Time.

Wait—how can that be? Doesn't Williams still trail five players—Margaret Smith Court (24), Steffi Graf (22), Helen Wills Moody (19), Chris Evert (18) and Martina Navratilova (18)—in major singles titles, the usual benchmark for excellence? Yes, but Williams plays in a far more competitive and demanding era. (Plus, none of the others had to play her sister in a Grand Slam final.) She has also won 12 major women's doubles titles, two major mixed doubles titles and two Olympic women's doubles gold medals. She has earned Grand Slam titles on all surfaces. She has been winning them since she was 17.

But numbers are only part of the discussion. The most important stroke in tennis is the serve, and Williams's is the most fearsome in women's history, an assertion echoed by everyone from Navratilova to Lindsay Davenport. Serena stands at the service line, tosses the ball high, rocks back on her right heel, uncoils her 5' 10" frame and delivers a thunderbolt that not only travels as fast as 125 mph but is also impeccably placed and often garnished with spin. Over the last two weeks she set the Wimbledon women's record with 89 aces. The next closest competitor had 30.

While Williams is known for sending heat-seeking missiles off both flanks—her forehand is more explosive, her backhand steadier, but both provide an ample supply of winners—her game is about more than aggression. Asked what made Serena such a tough opponent, Zvonareva remarked, "You take more risks because you know she's such a great mover and can play great defense." Wait, she plays defense, too? Little wonder Billie Jean King gushed last week that Serena is "the best athlete we've ever had."

Irreverent as it sounds, if you matched tennis's female legends head-to-head—all at their best, with identical equipment—Williams wouldn't just beat the others; she would crush them. Graf's scythelike slice backhand? Williams would bend her knees and tee off on it. Evert's consistency? Serena would simply overpower Chrissie. Navratilova's attacking game? Williams would whistle returns by the peerless serve-and-volleyer before she got to net. Plus, there has never been a player of Williams's mental toughness, a refusal to lose that kicks in even in emotional matches against Venus, her sister and best friend. "The thought of having to play her," says two-time U.S. Open champion Tracy Austin, "is honestly kind of scary."

Her results don't just speak for themselves. They scream.


In winning her fourth Wimbledon and 13th major singles title, Serena Williams made the case that she's not just the greatest female player of her generation— she's the greatest of all time
L. JON WERTHEIM




Since this article Serena has won 3 more GS titles, broken

her Ace record at Wimb, went over 50 WTA titles, won 2

more Gold metals, and in General continues her glorious

GOAT career at almost 32 years old. And it doesn't look

like she is stopping anytime soon.

RJ
(This post was last modified: 22-Jul-2013 06:14 PM by RJD11.)
22-Jul-2013 06:01 PM
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BROTENNIS (07-31-2013)
britbox Offline
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
Sabine didn't get the memo at Wimbledon. Joking aside, I personally differentiate between "best" and "greatest". Greatest is about achievement, albeit with some context. Serena isn't in the Top 4 in my opinion, but she's closing the gap.
22-Jul-2013 11:20 PM
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
(22-Jul-2013 06:01 PM)RJD11 Wrote:  Wertheim after Wimbledon 2010



Wait—how can that be? Doesn't Williams still trail five players—Margaret Smith Court (24), Steffi Graf (22), Helen Wills Moody (19), Chris Evert (18) and Martina Navratilova (18)—in major singles titles, the usual benchmark for excellence? Yes, but Williams plays in a far more competitive and demanding era.

I.

Don't.

Think.

So...
23-Jul-2013 04:05 AM
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Fiero425 Offline
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Thumbs Up RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
Same 'ol, same 'ol I see! When Williams hits 18 majors and 100 titles, call me! Until then, she's barely in the top 5! If you want to go with bench pressing weights, fine, she's the Queen! Other than that, this is a wasted conversation! It wasn't very smart to wait until 30+ to decide "I want to be the GOAT!" Too many years were wasted with injury, illness, & outside interests! This era has quite a few tough players, but the mental side of the game isn't evident! Ball bashing is not tennis no matter what people say which is why I can't give her more credit for her accomplishments! No No - The Top 4 lived and breathed tennis with the exception of Margaret Smith Court who took time off to have children and she still accomplished more than most! Evert is the Queen of clay and owns the French Open while Williams just acquired her 2nd title after 10 years! Martina owns Wimbledon and no one's close to her 9 singles titles! Graf was an all court player who won multiple titles on all surfaces so she'll always be ahead of Williams as well! It's hard to give Steffi full credit since Seles was stabbed and would have stopped her from reaching 22 majors! - Only 2 of the top 5 never had extended time away from tennis and owned their era with well over 100 titles along with 18 majors! That can't be achieved by Williams; isn't enough time so top 5 is the best I can do:

1) Martina Navratilova - 18 single majors (59 in total), 167 singles titles, 177 doubles
2) Steffi Graf - 22 Majors, 107 titles in total, Olympic Gold, Calender year Grand Slam
3) Margaret Court - 24 majors (62 in total), Calender year GS, 'GOAT' of Amateur era
4) Chris Evert - 18 single majors, 7 French Opens, 6 US Opens, 157 singles titles
5) Serena Williams - 16 majors, 4 Olympic medals (1 in singles), still on tour

"Kneel before your master! Fool; You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
(This post was last modified: 23-Jul-2013 06:18 AM by Fiero425.)
23-Jul-2013 06:15 AM
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
Hi Fiero, welcome to the boards.

I guess you don't sit on the fence!! Smile

I don't think anyone can look beyond your Top 4 right now. I've got them in a different order, but you can make an argument for each and everyone of them. Serena hasn't done enough yet to be in included in that company.

She may bridge the gap, but she's not there now.
23-Jul-2013 06:25 AM
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
(23-Jul-2013 06:25 AM)britbox Wrote:  Hi Fiero, welcome to the boards.

I guess you don't sit on the fence!! Smile

I don't think anyone can look beyond your Top 4 right now. I've got them in a different order, but you can make an argument for each and everyone of them. Serena hasn't done enough yet to be in included in that company.

She may bridge the gap, but she's not there now.

Thanks! I've caught a lot of hell with my choices and due to being into tennis since '71, these are my choices and why! I don't have a lot of respect for today's play with mindless bashing of the ball! It's hard to watch at times! If not for players like Federer, Gasquet, and a few others, I might have stopped watching altogether! On the ladies' side, it was Hingis that kept my interest after Navratilova retired! My faves today due to a lack of choice are Nole and Aggie Radwanska for obvious reasons! The men's GOAT is Federer with no question about it of course! He's rewritten the record books with numbers that won't be matched in our lifetime! I feel the same about Navratilova since she owns so many titles and majors in particular! I've had a real problem with Serena due to her outside interests and didn't really try to acquire numbers truly representative of her ability! True enough she's been ill and injured, but that wasn't the only reason she's still lagging behind the other greats! She really waited too long to get serious!

"Kneel before your master! Fool; You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
(This post was last modified: 23-Jul-2013 06:43 AM by Fiero425.)
23-Jul-2013 06:41 AM
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
(23-Jul-2013 06:41 AM)Fiero425 Wrote:  Thanks! I've caught a lot of hell with my choices and due to being into tennis since '71, these are my choices and why! I don't have a lot of respect for today's play with mindless bashing of the ball! It's hard to watch at times! If not for players like Federer, Gasquet, and a few others, I might have stopped watching altogether! On the ladies' side, it was Hingis that kept my interest after Navratilova retired! My faves today due to a lack of choice are Nole and Aggie Radwanska for obvious reasons! The men's GOAT is Federer with no question about it of course! He's rewritten the record books with numbers that won't be matched in our lifetime! I feel the same about Navratilova since she owns so many titles and majors in particular! I've had a real problem with Serena due to her outside interests and didn't really try to acquire numbers truly representative of her ability! True enough she's been ill and injured, but that wasn't the only reason she's still lagging behind the other greats! She really waited too long to get serious!

Since 1971 -- that's a long time! You've have the opportunity to catalog the players and trends which have come and gone.

I agree with your points, and I, too, would put Martina at the top of the list, followed by Graf and Evert.

Welcome to the Tennis Frontier forums! I look forward to reading more of your posts.
23-Jul-2013 08:22 AM
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
Serena Williams is the greatest female tennis player ever, if only for the simple reason that Serena Williams at her very best is so obviously the best the sport has ever seen.

The criterion by which it is cut and dry that Serena Williams is the best ever is as follows:

1. She provides the greatest athleticism and physical strength the sport has yet seen in a female.
2. She provides the deadliest, most effective weapon the sport has yet seen in a female - Her Serve (overwhelmingly deemed to be the best in the history of women's professional tennis).
3. She undoubtedly provides the highest level of play ever witnessed in the sport from a female player. The 2012 Olympic Tournament is Exhibit 1.
4. She has the very best tennis record of modern times which was amassed from the greatest level of competition and difficulties (propensity for injuries, etc.,) the sport has ever seen (1997-2013).

That is, she played against more #1 ranked caliber opponents than another female player ever. Moreover, she played against more Grand Slam winners caliber opponents than any other female player ever.

To rank anyone else about Serena Williams you have to provide someone who beats her in the aforementioned criterion. Any other criterion by which the great players are compared is reek of folly. For example, if someone says that it is quite unfair and difficult to compare players from different generation of the sport. And it so. Then, if it is so would it be rather more ridiculous to put up the All Time Grand Slam Winners list as the criterion by which all players are measured regardless of the era or generation?. Oh how contradictory is that?

Additionally, it is intellectually dishonest on the part of some tennis fans to hold up a particular past achievement by other great players as the main criterion of greatness, when such achievement is no longer attainable mostly due to the different time and situation of the game. For example, Martina Navratilovaâ€s record of 167 singles titles won is no longer attainable in the modern time of the sport for various reasons. Margaret Courtâ€s 24 Grand Slam Singles titles and Steffi Grafâ€s 22 GS singles titles are very improbably to attain in the modern time of the sport for various reasons. In fact, the feat of Double-Digit Grand Slam tiles is now a pinnacle achievement of the modern game. If you doubt that, then give consideration to the fact that there are only two players who achieved double digit GS singles titles status in the last 25 years of the female sport – Graf and Serena. Coupled that with the fact that great players like Hingis, Venus, Henin, Davenport, ASV, and Clijsters did not achieved double digit status. Monica Seles is an anomaly. There is no one in his or her right mind who thinks Seles would not have had double digit GS titles outside of the crazed German actions.

If there is and was a woman in the history of female professional tennis who is and was a better athlete and was stronger than Serena Williams, then that woman is probably the best female tennis player ever. If there is and was a woman in the history of female professional tennis who has/had a better and more effective weapon than Serena Williams Serve, then that woman is probably the best female tennis player ever. If there is a woman in the history of female professional tennis who demonstrates a higher level of play in the sport than that which Serena Williams demonstratively displays, then that women is probably the best female tennis player ever. If there is a women with a better tennis record against a higher level of competition and level of difficulties than those that Serena Williams faces throughout her career, then that woman is probably the best female tennis player ever. Period!
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
(23-Jul-2013 03:40 PM)laj Wrote:  Serena Williams is the greatest female tennis player ever, if only for the simple reason that Serena Williams at her very best is so obviously the best the sport has ever seen.

The criterion by which it is cut and dry that Serena Williams is the best ever is as follows:

1. She provides the greatest athleticism and physical strength the sport has yet seen in a female.
2. She provides the deadliest, most effective weapon the sport has yet seen in a female - Her Serve (overwhelmingly deemed to be the best in the history of women's professional tennis).
3. She undoubtedly provides the highest level of play ever witnessed in the sport from a female player. The 2012 Olympic Tournament is Exhibit 1.
4. She has the very best tennis record of modern times which was amassed from the greatest level of competition and difficulties (propensity for injuries, etc.,) the sport has ever seen (1997-2013).

That is, she played against more #1 ranked caliber opponents than another female player ever. Moreover, she played against more Grand Slam winners caliber opponents than any other female player ever.

To rank anyone else about Serena Williams you have to provide someone who beats her in the aforementioned criterion. Any other criterion by which the great players are compared is reek of folly. For example, if someone says that it is quite unfair and difficult to compare players from different generation of the sport. And it so. Then, if it is so would it be rather more ridiculous to put up the All Time Grand Slam Winners list as the criterion by which all players are measured regardless of the era or generation?. Oh how contradictory is that?

Additionally, it is intellectually dishonest on the part of some tennis fans to hold up a particular past achievement by other great players as the main criterion of greatness, when such achievement is no longer attainable mostly due to the different time and situation of the game. For example, Martina Navratilovaâ€s record of 167 singles titles won is no longer attainable in the modern time of the sport for various reasons. Margaret Courtâ€s 24 Grand Slam Singles titles and Steffi Grafâ€s 22 GS singles titles are very improbably to attain in the modern time of the sport for various reasons. In fact, the feat of Double-Digit Grand Slam tiles is now a pinnacle achievement of the modern game. If you doubt that, then give consideration to the fact that there are only two players who achieved double digit GS singles titles status in the last 25 years of the female sport – Graf and Serena. Coupled that with the fact that great players like Hingis, Venus, Henin, Davenport, ASV, and Clijsters did not achieved double digit status. Monica Seles is an anomaly. There is no one in his or her right mind who thinks Seles would not have had double digit GS titles outside of the crazed German actions.

If there is and was a woman in the history of female professional tennis who is and was a better athlete and was stronger than Serena Williams, then that woman is probably the best female tennis player ever. If there is and was a woman in the history of female professional tennis who has/had a better and more effective weapon than Serena Williams Serve, then that woman is probably the best female tennis player ever. If there is a woman in the history of female professional tennis who demonstrates a higher level of play in the sport than that which Serena Williams demonstratively displays, then that women is probably the best female tennis player ever. If there is a women with a better tennis record against a higher level of competition and level of difficulties than those that Serena Williams faces throughout her career, then that woman is probably the best female tennis player ever. Period!
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Maybe valid points, but you yourself have the caveat that shakes up your argument; "IF" her serve and "IF" she's healthy she's the most formidable in the history of the game! The problem is, if she loses those weapons, she's vulnerable to players outside of the top 20 or 30! That didn't happen to past champions and it has nothing to do with their ability! She just goes off the boil for no reason, sometimes within 2 points of winning only to drop a set and a match to improbable players; case in point the FO last season! I've never heard of that woman before! Anything else? I think her major problem is technique! If she's not on her game, she doesn't have much to fall back on but her heart and we all have seen that fail her at crucial times; esp. of late losing at the AO and Wimbledon for no real good reason!

"Kneel before your master! Fool; You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
(This post was last modified: 23-Jul-2013 04:14 PM by Fiero425.)
23-Jul-2013 04:05 PM
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
(23-Jul-2013 04:05 PM)Fiero425 Wrote:  
(23-Jul-2013 03:40 PM)laj Wrote:  Serena Williams is the greatest female tennis player ever, if only for the simple reason that Serena Williams at her very best is so obviously the best the sport has ever seen.

The criterion by which it is cut and dry that Serena Williams is the best ever is as follows:

1. She provides the greatest athleticism and physical strength the sport has yet seen in a female.
2. She provides the deadliest, most effective weapon the sport has yet seen in a female - Her Serve (overwhelmingly deemed to be the best in the history of women's professional tennis).
3. She undoubtedly provides the highest level of play ever witnessed in the sport from a female player. The 2012 Olympic Tournament is Exhibit 1.
4. She has the very best tennis record of modern times which was amassed from the greatest level of competition and difficulties (propensity for injuries, etc.,) the sport has ever seen (1997-2013).

That is, she played against more #1 ranked caliber opponents than another female player ever. Moreover, she played against more Grand Slam winners caliber opponents than any other female player ever.

To rank anyone else about Serena Williams you have to provide someone who beats her in the aforementioned criterion. Any other criterion by which the great players are compared is reek of folly. For example, if someone says that it is quite unfair and difficult to compare players from different generation of the sport. And it so. Then, if it is so would it be rather more ridiculous to put up the All Time Grand Slam Winners list as the criterion by which all players are measured regardless of the era or generation?. Oh how contradictory is that?

Additionally, it is intellectually dishonest on the part of some tennis fans to hold up a particular past achievement by other great players as the main criterion of greatness, when such achievement is no longer attainable mostly due to the different time and situation of the game. For example, Martina Navratilovaâ€s record of 167 singles titles won is no longer attainable in the modern time of the sport for various reasons. Margaret Courtâ€s 24 Grand Slam Singles titles and Steffi Grafâ€s 22 GS singles titles are very improbably to attain in the modern time of the sport for various reasons. In fact, the feat of Double-Digit Grand Slam tiles is now a pinnacle achievement of the modern game. If you doubt that, then give consideration to the fact that there are only two players who achieved double digit GS singles titles status in the last 25 years of the female sport – Graf and Serena. Coupled that with the fact that great players like Hingis, Venus, Henin, Davenport, ASV, and Clijsters did not achieved double digit status. Monica Seles is an anomaly. There is no one in his or her right mind who thinks Seles would not have had double digit GS titles outside of the crazed German actions.

If there is and was a woman in the history of female professional tennis who is and was a better athlete and was stronger than Serena Williams, then that woman is probably the best female tennis player ever. If there is and was a woman in the history of female professional tennis who has/had a better and more effective weapon than Serena Williams Serve, then that woman is probably the best female tennis player ever. If there is a woman in the history of female professional tennis who demonstrates a higher level of play in the sport than that which Serena Williams demonstratively displays, then that women is probably the best female tennis player ever. If there is a women with a better tennis record against a higher level of competition and level of difficulties than those that Serena Williams faces throughout her career, then that woman is probably the best female tennis player ever. Period!
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laj

Maybe valid points, but you yourself have the caveat that shakes up your argument; "IF" her serve and "IF" she's healthy she's the most formidable in the history of the game! The problem is, if she loses those weapons, she's vulnerable to players outside of the top 20 or 30! That didn't happen to past champions and it has nothing to do with their ability! She just goes off the boil for no reason, sometimes within 2 points of winning only to drop a set and a match to improbable players; case in point the FO last season! I've never heard of that woman before! Anything else? I think her major problem is technique! If she's not on her game, she doesn't have much to fall back on but her heart and we all have seen that fail her at crucial times; esp. of late losing at the AO and Wimbledon for no real good reason!


You cite that FO like it was one of many. It was not. In fact

losing to Razzano in the first round of RG like that happened

to Serena only once. And the vast majority of the time she

goes " off the boil " she usually recovers and wins the match

But she is not perfect. No one can be at their best all the time

Or Graf would not have lost 115 times and Nav 219 times.

And I'm sure some of those losses was to players you never

heard of.

And yes those losses to low ranked players has nothing to do

with her ability or technique. She and many have said that

Serena is Serena's toughest opponent. It is not easy to come

out and play to the best of your ability every match day in

and day out. Maybe a robot could but Serena is Human.

I also think it is easier to come out and maintain your focus

and best play vs an opponent you know is a top player rather

than a player you are the overwhelming favorite to beat.
(This post was last modified: 25-Jul-2013 02:00 PM by RJD11.)
25-Jul-2013 01:44 PM
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
(23-Jul-2013 04:05 PM)Fiero425 Wrote:  
(23-Jul-2013 03:40 PM)laj Wrote:  Maybe valid points, but you yourself have the caveat that shakes up your argument; "IF" her serve and "IF" she's healthy she's the most formidable in the history of the game! The problem is, if she loses those weapons, she's vulnerable to players outside of the top 20 or 30! That didn't happen to past champions and it has nothing to do with their ability! She just goes off the boil for no reason, sometimes within 2 points of winning only to drop a set and a match to improbable players; case in point the FO last season! I've never heard of that woman before! Anything else? I think her major problem is technique! If she's not on her game, she doesn't have much to fall back on but her heart and we all have seen that fail her at crucial times; esp. of late losing at the AO and Wimbledon for no real good reason!


You cite that FO like it was one of many. It was not. In fact

losing to Razzano in the first round of RG like that happened

to Serena only once. And the vast majority of the time she

goes " off the boil " she usually recovers and wins the match

But she is not perfect. No one can be at their best all the time

Or Graf would not have lost 115 times and Nav 219 times.

And I'm sure some of those losses was to players you never

heard of.

And yes those losses to low ranked players has nothing to do

with her ability or technique. She and many have said that

Serena is Serena's toughest opponent. It is not easy to come

out and play to the best of your ability every match day in

and day out. Maybe a robot could but Serena is Human.

I also think it is easier to come out and maintain your focus

and best play vs an opponent you know is a top player rather

than a player you are the overwhelming favorite to beat.

Clap Lay Down Laughing Angel

"Kneel before your master! Fool; You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
25-Jul-2013 02:25 PM
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
(25-Jul-2013 02:25 PM)Fiero425 Wrote:  
(23-Jul-2013 04:05 PM)Fiero425 Wrote:  
(23-Jul-2013 03:40 PM)laj Wrote:  Maybe valid points, but you yourself have the caveat that shakes up your argument; "IF" her serve and "IF" she's healthy she's the most formidable in the history of the game! The problem is, if she loses those weapons, she's vulnerable to players outside of the top 20 or 30! That didn't happen to past champions and it has nothing to do with their ability! She just goes off the boil for no reason, sometimes within 2 points of winning only to drop a set and a match to improbable players; case in point the FO last season! I've never heard of that woman before! Anything else? I think her major problem is technique! If she's not on her game, she doesn't have much to fall back on but her heart and we all have seen that fail her at crucial times; esp. of late losing at the AO and Wimbledon for no real good reason!


You cite that FO like it was one of many. It was not. In fact

losing to Razzano in the first round of RG like that happened

to Serena only once. And the vast majority of the time she

goes " off the boil " she usually recovers and wins the match

But she is not perfect. No one can be at their best all the time

Or Graf would not have lost 115 times and Nav 219 times.

And I'm sure some of those losses was to players you never

heard of.

And yes those losses to low ranked players has nothing to do

with her ability or technique. She and many have said that

Serena is Serena's toughest opponent. It is not easy to come

out and play to the best of your ability every match day in

and day out. Maybe a robot could but Serena is Human.

I also think it is easier to come out and maintain your focus

and best play vs an opponent you know is a top player rather

than a player you are the overwhelming favorite to beat.

Clap Lay Down Laughing Angel

Would Serena Williams beat Steffi Graf, Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert?
Yes
79.8%
No
20.2%

Serena Williams looks poised to win her first Olympic singles gold medal this summer in the same city where she took home her fifth Wimbledon Grand Slam victory a few weeks ago.

Winning at the Games will simply reinforce one truth: Serena Williams is the greatest women's tennis player ever.

Yes, ever.

If you want to simply compare numbers, Steffi Graf, Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert each had better careers. It'll be hard to argue otherwise if you're stuck on numbers alone.

But if we could've frozen each of the greatest women's tennis players in time, and thus prevented them from the perils of aging to pit each of them in a match today against Williams, we'd all see why they're amateurs compared to her.

But Serena is the LeBron of tennis. She's physically more dominant than every other player in the history of the sport. You can safely say for both Williams and James that no one has seen an athlete in their respective sport with that kind of combination of athleticism, size and sheer power.

And yet when it's all said and done, we'll know nothing new; the greatest of all time will have just won again, this time with the entire world watching.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/12780...ans-legacy
(This post was last modified: 26-Jul-2013 02:32 PM by RJD11.)
25-Jul-2013 05:01 PM
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britbox Offline
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
So by your reckoning, is JW Tsonga a greater player than Rod Laver?
26-Jul-2013 09:40 PM
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Fiero425 Offline
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
(26-Jul-2013 09:40 PM)britbox Wrote:  So by your reckoning, is JW Tsonga a greater player than Rod Laver?

That must be where they're going in their thinking! lol! Lay Down Laughing All players of today would slay stars of the past! Lay Down Laughing Tongue Angel :snigger If only they had a chance to see these players in their prime; the concentration, technique, & strategy it took to win with wood, with basic strings, and pot-holed grasscourts!

"Kneel before your master! Fool; You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
26-Jul-2013 09:49 PM
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britbox Offline
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
True and the players could only play who was in front of them with the courts and equipment provided at the time. If a top player from yesteryear was placed in the modern era then I'm sure they would adapt accordingly in most cases. Also whilst Serena may well be physically as strong, if not more powerful than any woman to pick up a racquet - I'm not convinced she was a better athlete than a prime Steffi Graf.
27-Jul-2013 01:42 AM
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RJD11 Offline
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
(26-Jul-2013 09:40 PM)britbox Wrote:  So by your reckoning, is JW Tsonga a greater player than Rod Laver?

I have not seen either of them play enough to make that
determination. Laver played over 40 years ago and logic
says that athletes get better each Generation. Back in the
day many thought the 4 min mile was impossible. Until
Bannister did it. Now if you can't do a 4 min mile you
probably won't make the team. Its why records keep being
broken. However every once in a while an athlete comes along
who seems to jump a generation and exceed all the norms.
These are the Jordans, Lebrons, Bechams. etc. The greats.
It seems Laver was one of these. But whether he could exceed
5 or 6 generations to beat Tsonga is a stretch. Jo-Willie will
never exceed his accomplishments but in a match to see who
would win I'd have see them play. Lavers records were done back
in his day against athletes of his day as goes all of those Greats
I don't think he would beat Fed or Nadal or Joker & Murr

But I have seen Serena, Chris, Nav and Graf play. Connors was
my Fav back in the day and when he started dating Evert she
became my fav. Thats when I started really watching the Ladies
Didn't like it much at first because of the slow pace of the
game. But it grew on me as I started seeing strategies and
techniques. And from all those years of watching the evolution
of Womens I can say none of those Ladies played tennis at
a better level than Serena J. Williams at her best.

But I do think of all those greats Graf would come the closest
as well as Seles had she not been stabbed. The Sisters
pretty much dominated Seles after the stabbing but I think
she was a better player before than after.

(26-Jul-2013 09:49 PM)Fiero425 Wrote:  
(26-Jul-2013 09:40 PM)britbox Wrote:  So by your reckoning, is JW Tsonga a greater player than Rod Laver?

That must be where they're going in their thinking! lol! Lay Down Laughing All players of today would slay stars of the past! Lay Down Laughing Tongue Angel :snigger If only they had a chance to see these players in their prime; the concentration, technique, & strategy it took to win with wood, with basic strings, and pot-holed grasscourts!


I'm sure the grounds keepers at the all England Club are thrilled

with your assessment of their pot-holed grass court. I guess they

didn't take care of them very well back then.

The game has evolved like everything else. Wood racquets have

gone the way of the dinosaur. Its time to join the here and now.

Don't Put them on a pedestal and worship them as the be all

end all of tennis. They were a tool used during their time and

went away when better one came along. I would like a '57

Chevy as a toy to enjoy every once in a while but I'd prefer

a 2013 Caddy with its technology to use day in and day out.

Players played the way they did with them because they had to

And the smart players changed to the new sticks because it

made them play better. They didn't hesitate.
(This post was last modified: 27-Jul-2013 02:59 PM by RJD11.)
27-Jul-2013 02:39 PM
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
J. Wertheim: SI writer Mailbag

While human accomplishment isn't the same thing as technology (or a delicious sports beverage), I often get hung up on the fact that athletes -- as a species -- tend to improve over time. Roger Bannister was a heroic and historical figure. But how could you say he was the best of all time when his sub-four-minute mile -- again, historic at the time -- wouldn't even qualify him for the NCAA record today?

Margaret Court is a figure worthy of our respect, at least as a tennis player. But go and watch some clips of her playing -- look at her movement, her serve, where her strokes land in the court -- and there is NO WAY she touches Serena Williams or Steffi Graf. Not if they both use wood, not if they both use space-age polyester strings, not if they both use spatulas.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/...z2agzQfS9Q
(This post was last modified: 01-Aug-2013 12:32 AM by RJD11.)
01-Aug-2013 12:31 AM
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tented Offline
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RE: The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time
(01-Aug-2013 12:31 AM)RJD11 Wrote:  J. Wertheim: SI writer Mailbag

While human accomplishment isn't the same thing as technology (or a delicious sports beverage), I often get hung up on the fact that athletes -- as a species -- tend to improve over time. Roger Bannister was a heroic and historical figure. But how could you say he was the best of all time when his sub-four-minute mile -- again, historic at the time -- wouldn't even qualify him for the NCAA record today?

Margaret Court is a figure worthy of our respect, at least as a tennis player. But go and watch some clips of her playing -- look at her movement, her serve, where her strokes land in the court -- and there is NO WAY she touches Serena Williams or Steffi Graf. Not if they both use wood, not if they both use space-age polyester strings, not if they both use spatulas.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/...z2agzQfS9Q

He wrote only one more paragraph, which is arguably the most important:

"There are no road rules here, no ratios and weighted averages that need to be applied. It's a personal definition, which makes it fun and maddening at the same time. But when I consider a "greatest of all time" I tend to weight the present, fairly confident that today's player would (wo)manhandle a predecessor in a head-to-head match. But that's just me. I could be wrong."

In short, it's all personal opinion. There is ultimately no such thing as pure objectivity when it comes to GOAT debates, because inevitably subjectivity will intrude.
01-Aug-2013 01:51 AM
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