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Changes for Federer?
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DarthFed Offline
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Changes for Federer?
I remember a few years back after he struggled badly for the 7-8 months following his 16th major at AO there was a lot of conversation about what Roger needed to do to start playing like himself again. Getting a coach was near the top of everyone's list and he got a well-respected coach in Annacone and immediately started playing better in that fall season.

Much different time now as Roger is a few years older and is now playing considerably worse tennis than that poor streak in 2010. Any suggestions on changes? At this point I think Roger might have to make a change just for the purpose of making a change, whether it be a different coach, no coach, changing to a different racquet, changing all around strategy, etc.

It could be that there truly is no more good tennis in him but I don't think that's the case. And even if it is, I think it is best to go down swinging and trying everything he can to start playing well again. Right now I don't get that sense, not when all his losses are following a similar pattern and he is getting overpowered by every mindless basher he faces.

I'd be ecstatic if Roger started taking a couple steps back on the return for starters. If I was Annacone I'd sit him down and just show "highlights" of all the returns he is failing to put back in play in matches like the FO QF. Roger would be glued to the TV for a long time. The ROS is the biggest problem Roger has right now that is very fixable IMO. Some of the other things like lack of defense and movement and footwork there is little he can do about. Just my opinion, what's everyone else think?
11-Jun-2013 12:55 AM
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Ilovetennis2 Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
I agree with the return of serve. It would be very nice to have him try a few changes there. He's not a man with god-like reflexes anymore when it comes to returning. He needs that extra .1 second to get that serve back into play, I think.
11-Jun-2013 02:24 AM
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johnsteinbeck Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
i remember one poster claiming that if Fed started pumping iron, wearing gloves and playing topspin cross lobs, he'd dominate at will, as would anyone else if they were to stick to his rules. dunno what the tennis equivalent of armchair quarterback is, but it certainly applied.

on a more serious note: you might be right in that change (of any kind) would do him good, just like the hiring of Annacone did - although it took some time to actually pay off. no idea what he's currently working on. the ROS is definitely something he needs to reconsider; sight/reflexes suffer rather early, and he might have to adapt to that; or he might have to work a little harder on it to get back at it. no clue. i'm also persistently worrying about the serve - imo, it's gotten considerably better since early spring, but it needs to be in perfect shape for grass and the summer HC, let alone indoors.
11-Jun-2013 04:01 AM
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the AntiPusher Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
Roger needs to upgrade to a slightly bigger and lighter racket that will allow him to level the playing field. Todays game is so predicated on generating heavy spin with racket head speed. I always felt that Roger still could mix it up a bit with a S&V attack game due to his abilities to place his serves strategically where he desires.This would allow him to shorten the points to preserve himself from all the wear and tear of those long rallies. I am not suggesting to play like Sampras or Rafter but just increase his attack game by 25%.IMO.
(This post was last modified: 11-Jun-2013 05:09 AM by the AntiPusher.)
11-Jun-2013 05:08 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
He's committed to play more in the second part of the season, so this will help. He just seems so rusty and careless, almost. The fires are dimming and he's not reacting quick enough out there. But I think a regular diet of matches will help. New racket? I don't see why. But more attack play? Yes! The players don't fear him any more, and that's a terrible thing to lose, worse than losing half a yard of pace...
11-Jun-2013 05:37 AM
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coban Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
(11-Jun-2013 05:08 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  Roger needs to upgrade to a slightly bigger and lighter racket that will allow him to level the playing field. Todays game is so predicated on generating heavy spin with racket head speed. I always felt that Roger still could mix it up a bit with a S&V attack game due to his abilities to place his serves strategically where he desires.This would allow him to shorten the points to preserve himself from all the wear and tear of those long rallies. I am not suggesting to play like Sampras or Rafter but just increase his attack game by 25%.IMO.

During the AMA (reddit.com), he actually answered this question:

Quote:I've been testing rackets for the last 10 years and have also tested 95 sq so who knows. Maybe one day. I'm always open for changes. The real challenge is finding a time in the calendar year where i have enough time to test it out and get comfortable.

I remember when Djokovic got a new racket, didnt exactly work for him..
11-Jun-2013 06:59 AM
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1972Murat Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
One of the biggest issues with Roger right now is that he cannot turn defense to offense like he used to. Once he is on his heels, the point is pretty much gone. So, he cannot afford to give the baseline. He has to attack. The refusal to go back for the serve return , in my opinion, is a part of this. Even on a return, he feels he cannot give up the baseline. Block the ball back, cut the angles, see what happens. Looks horrible at times, with lame returns, works sometimes and gives him the upper hand on the rally right of the bat.
I do believe if Roger had a spare 2-3 months, he would consider a bigger frame but that kind of time just does not exist. It must also be tough to change a stick that got you 17 slams and countless wins. Sampras dealt with the same issue and later he said he wished he tried a bigger frame, but hindsight...
The consistency to keep it together for a whole season is never coming back for Roger, I am afraid. But I think he still can have stretches long enough to win him a couple of tournaments in a row, maybe a slam.
11-Jun-2013 07:56 AM
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Kieran (06-11-2013)
Broken_Shoelace Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
(11-Jun-2013 05:08 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  Roger needs to upgrade to a slightly bigger and lighter racket that will allow him to level the playing field. Todays game is so predicated on generating heavy spin with racket head speed.

Roger's racquet head acceleration is second to none though, and he produces more spin than most. Among the top 4, he's right after Rafa in that regard.
11-Jun-2013 09:45 AM
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the AntiPusher Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
(11-Jun-2013 09:45 AM)Broken_Shoelace Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 05:08 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  Roger needs to upgrade to a slightly bigger and lighter racket that will allow him to level the playing field. Todays game is so predicated on generating heavy spin with racket head speed.

Roger's racquet head acceleration is second to none though, and he produces more spin than most. Among the top 4, he's right after Rafa in that regard.
Novak generates far more racket head acceleration than anyone on the tour including Fed . Trust me , I may not gain any support but that is standard on this board but I am quite sure about this
(This post was last modified: 11-Jun-2013 10:23 AM by the AntiPusher.)
11-Jun-2013 10:15 AM
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Didi Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
Technical/strategic adjustments aside, for me the most important factor remains just how badly does he still want to win? I'm sure Roger knows very well what his game currently lacks.
He knows it better than anyone having played 1100+ matches on tour. There is only so many times you can (re-)dedicate yourself to something till your mind just doesn't want it anymore.
He suffered in 2010-2011, then made a remarkable comeback in 2012 which took a lot of mental energy out of him. He's still got the game and athleticism to beat anyone but the mind plays such a huge role in tennis. Just how much does he want to torture himself given that he's seen, done and won it all? Is there sill a driving force inside him? Does he still fear losing as much as he used to? Fear is the greatest motivation out there. By no means I'm doubting his love for the game but that ain't enough. I'm saying nothing new here, so what do I propose? Lock you up in a hotel room and watch videos of all of your losses the past 10 months till the fire starts to burn again. If that doesn't help, you might as well just call it a career and start playing with your twins.
(This post was last modified: 11-Jun-2013 10:34 AM by Didi.)
11-Jun-2013 10:28 AM
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britbox Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
(11-Jun-2013 10:28 AM)Didi Wrote:  Technical/strategic adjustments aside, for me the most important factor remains just how badly does he still want to win? I'm sure Roger knows very well what his game currently lacks.
He knows it better than anyone having played 1100+ matches on tour. There is only so many times you can (re-)dedicate yourself to something till your mind just doesn't want it anymore.
He suffered in 2010-2011, then made a remarkable comeback in 2012 which took a lot of mental energy out of him. He's still got the game and athleticism to beat anyone but the mind plays such a huge role in tennis. Just how much does he want to torture himself given that he's seen, done and won it all? I'm saying nothing new here, so what do I propose? Lock you up in a hotel room and watch videos of all of your losses the past 10 months till the fire starts to burn again. If that doesn't help, you might as well just call it a career and start playing with your twins.

Bingo - agree with nearly all of this. I felt Roger came out last year with a big agenda... almost as if he needed to prove a point to himself. He won Wimbledon, got back to #1 (nobody predicted the latter). Other than Cinci I thought he tailed off once he'd satisfied the hunger.

There's only so many times you can keep going back to the well.
11-Jun-2013 10:34 AM
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johnsteinbeck Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
^ absolutely agree. i think the olympics weren't too shabby either - that was part of the mission as well; the SF took such a big toll (mentally and physically) that he didn't have all that much left to give, compared to Andy. but yeah, Cincy was just him still in good conditioning from the great run, and as he ran into a weak Djoker, he enjoyed the moment... just a nice after-thought.
11-Jun-2013 10:51 AM
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lindseywagners Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
(11-Jun-2013 10:28 AM)Didi Wrote:  Technical/strategic adjustments aside, for me the most important factor remains just how badly does he still want to win? I'm sure Roger knows very well what his game currently lacks.
He knows it better than anyone having played 1100+ matches on tour. There is only so many times you can (re-)dedicate yourself to something till your mind just doesn't want it anymore.
He suffered in 2010-2011, then made a remarkable comeback in 2012 which took a lot of mental energy out of him. He's still got the game and athleticism to beat anyone but the mind plays such a huge role in tennis. Just how much does he want to torture himself given that he's seen, done and won it all? Is there sill a driving force inside him? Does he still fear losing as much as he used to? Fear is the greatest motivation out there. By no means I'm doubting his love for the game but that ain't enough. I'm saying nothing new here, so what do I propose? Lock you up in a hotel room and watch videos of all of your losses the past 10 months till the fire starts to burn again. If that doesn't help, you might as well just call it a career and start playing with your twins.

Yeah, I would say this is definitely more mental (making a racket change or serve and volleying more will do him little good at this stage), and I think Peter Bodo agrees as well, writing the following after Nishikori beat him in Madrid:

"Today, though, Federer started sluggish and, despite a mid-match revival, finished slow—classic symptoms of an aging player who no longer wants to win in his heart, just in his mind; thus, he has to force himself to want to want to win."

I was thinking the other day that he needs a younger coach to get him motivated. Annacone is great but I don't think he's able to light a fire in Roger. Fed needs someone younger who can inspire him and get him excited/ecstatic about playing and 'wanting it' in his heart. Maybe a younger coach wouldn't work either, but that's where I would suggest making the change.
(This post was last modified: 11-Jun-2013 11:16 AM by lindseywagners.)
11-Jun-2013 11:10 AM
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JesuslookslikeBorg. Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
Federer is lucky all the courts are slower than in olden days..

gives him a chance to move his Zimmerframe into position before slapping the ball back.

.....scorchio.
11-Jun-2013 12:11 PM
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ricardo Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
(11-Jun-2013 10:15 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 09:45 AM)Broken_Shoelace Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 05:08 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  Roger needs to upgrade to a slightly bigger and lighter racket that will allow him to level the playing field. Todays game is so predicated on generating heavy spin with racket head speed.

Roger's racquet head acceleration is second to none though, and he produces more spin than most. Among the top 4, he's right after Rafa in that regard.
Novak generates far more racket head acceleration than anyone on the tour including Fed . Trust me , I may not gain any support but that is standard on this board but I am quite sure about this

Really? how do you support your claim? i think Rafa would easily top them all....
11-Jun-2013 12:31 PM
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the AntiPusher Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
(11-Jun-2013 12:31 PM)ricardo Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 10:15 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 09:45 AM)Broken_Shoelace Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 05:08 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  Roger needs to upgrade to a slightly bigger and lighter racket that will allow him to level the playing field. Todays game is so predicated on generating heavy spin with racket head speed.

Roger's racquet head acceleration is second to none though, and he produces more spin than most. Among the top 4, he's right after Rafa in that regard.
Novak generates far more racket head acceleration than anyone on the tour including Fed . Trust me , I may not gain any support but that is standard on this board but I am quite sure about this

Really? how do you support your claim? i think Rafa would easily top them all....

What the Hell is this!! I am not going to start who's racket head acceleration is the best debateSnigger
11-Jun-2013 01:55 PM
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shawnbm Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
Change for the sake of change is not the way to go. I do believe he could mix up his ROS position depending on surface and who is serving. He seems to not do that and I can recall him doing that a bit years ago. Overall, though, he has already accomplished what he set out to do after a dismal end of 2010 and 2011--he not only won SW19 again for number 17, but he actually recaptured the top ranking for a good part of 2012. He earned it by beating the top dog and the rest of the top ten more than the other guys. I feel it may very well be a question of motivation to dedicate himself once again to do something like that. How many school plays is he going to want to miss?

Virgil Cane is the name ...
11-Jun-2013 02:01 PM
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Broken_Shoelace Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
(11-Jun-2013 10:15 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 09:45 AM)Broken_Shoelace Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 05:08 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  Roger needs to upgrade to a slightly bigger and lighter racket that will allow him to level the playing field. Todays game is so predicated on generating heavy spin with racket head speed.

Roger's racquet head acceleration is second to none though, and he produces more spin than most. Among the top 4, he's right after Rafa in that regard.
Novak generates far more racket head acceleration than anyone on the tour including Fed . Trust me , I may not gain any support but that is standard on this board but I am quite sure about this

I don't mean to sound like a prick but this isn't much of an argument, especially given the near impossibility of actually measuring such a thing on average. I "trust you," but I just don't trust that one can make such claims with little backing, and say they're "sure" about this. Novak may well have the fastest racquet head acceleration but there's no way to know for sure.

(11-Jun-2013 01:55 PM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 12:31 PM)ricardo Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 10:15 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 09:45 AM)Broken_Shoelace Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 05:08 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  Roger needs to upgrade to a slightly bigger and lighter racket that will allow him to level the playing field. Todays game is so predicated on generating heavy spin with racket head speed.

Roger's racquet head acceleration is second to none though, and he produces more spin than most. Among the top 4, he's right after Rafa in that regard.
Novak generates far more racket head acceleration than anyone on the tour including Fed . Trust me , I may not gain any support but that is standard on this board but I am quite sure about this

Really? how do you support your claim? i think Rafa would easily top them all....

What the Hell is this!! I am not going to start who's racket head acceleration is the best debateSnigger

It's actually a very valid question Ricardo asked. How do you support this? And yeah, given the preposterous amount of spin Nadal generates, he's a pretty good candidate to have the fastest racquet head acceleration.
(This post was last modified: 11-Jun-2013 03:51 PM by Broken_Shoelace.)
11-Jun-2013 03:49 PM
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the AntiPusher Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
(11-Jun-2013 03:49 PM)Broken_Shoelace Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 10:15 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 09:45 AM)Broken_Shoelace Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 05:08 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  Roger needs to upgrade to a slightly bigger and lighter racket that will allow him to level the playing field. Todays game is so predicated on generating heavy spin with racket head speed.

Roger's racquet head acceleration is second to none though, and he produces more spin than most. Among the top 4, he's right after Rafa in that regard.
Novak generates far more racket head acceleration than anyone on the tour including Fed . Trust me , I may not gain any support but that is standard on this board but I am quite sure about this

I don't mean to sound like a prick but this isn't much of an argument, especially given the near impossibility of actually measuring such a thing on average. I "trust you," but I just don't trust that one can make such claims with little backing, and say they're "sure" about this. Novak may well have the fastest racquet head acceleration but there's no way to know for sure.

(11-Jun-2013 01:55 PM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 12:31 PM)ricardo Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 10:15 AM)the AntiPusher Wrote:  
(11-Jun-2013 09:45 AM)Broken_Shoelace Wrote:  Roger's racquet head acceleration is second to none though, and he produces more spin than most. Among the top 4, he's right after Rafa in that regard.
Novak generates far more racket head acceleration than anyone on the tour including Fed . Trust me , I may not gain any support but that is standard on this board but I am quite sure about this

Really? how do you support your claim? i think Rafa would easily top them all....

What the Hell is this!! I am not going to start who's racket head acceleration is the best debateSnigger

It's actually a very valid question Ricardo asked. How do you support this? And yeah, given the preposterous amount of spin Nadal generates, he's a pretty good candidate to have the fastest racquet head acceleration.

BS you said it couldn t be done.. That just not true..This is from 5 years ago..

http://www.somaxsports.com/photo.php?ana...r-djokovic

Surely, Fed has drop a level whereas Novak's level has risen. If you noticed typically in Novak's matches he just over powers his opponents during the course of his rally groundstrokes that is usually how he is able to dictate play. He does it with precision accuracy which separates him from most of the top pros.
(This post was last modified: 11-Jun-2013 05:31 PM by the AntiPusher.)
11-Jun-2013 04:11 PM
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Didi Offline
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RE: Changes for Federer?
(11-Jun-2013 12:11 PM)JesuslookslikeBorg. Wrote:  Federer is lucky all the courts are slower than in olden days..

gives him a chance to move his Zimmerframe into position before slapping the ball back.

Not sure if you are serious here but had they not slowed down Wimbledon, AO and the USO, in my opinion Roger would very likely be sitting on 20+ slams and still be #1 right now. I think he would prefer it to be like in the 90s instead of having to torture himself in brutal baseline wars on pretty mich every surface he enters these days with a ridiculous mileage on his body. I can only imagine how great his first strike tennis would have looked like on much faster courts, even today. Take a look at the Wimbledon semis and finals from 2003. A masterpiece of attacking talent.
11-Jun-2013 04:42 PM
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