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Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
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Kieran Offline
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Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
Think about it: he's young - in Cali years - and he's wiping the mat with such warriors as Tsonga. Reached the final without losing a set. Only inexperience caught...okay, I can't find anything to joke about with Ferrer. If anything, the guy is the best example a young tennis kid could look up to. And he's having a great Indian summer.

I'm just surprised there hasn't been a bandwagon thread about him. Fact is, we're still wondering who'll replace the Big 3. Who's the next dominant figure? It's impossible to tell! There were no indicators in Paris.

None.

Rien!

In fact, looking at it, Tsonga was despicable in the semi (only word I can think of to describe his craven effort), and outside the Champ-set, the field isn't promising. Where is the next Champion?

I don't know. But I know that if the top 4 forgot to set the alarm and missed a slam, somehow the rest of the field would find a way to Tsonga. Sorry, I meant, "would find a way to lose..."
10-Jun-2013 04:14 AM
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Broken_Shoelace Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
All joking aside, when Mats Wilander was asked to talk about what stood out most to him from RG this year, he asked -- among other things -- where are the younger players? He brought up Robredo, Haas, Ferrer and Youzhny doing well, gave them credit, but wondered just how weak is the younger generation of players to "allow" this to happen. I may not agree 100% but he's got a point.
10-Jun-2013 08:08 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
Absolutely. It's barren out there at the moment. And we saw just how far away the likes of Tsonga, Ferrer etc are. I give Ferrer kudos for effort, though, whereas most of them are grinning at the net after a defeat, which seems bizarre to me.

The older players did well, but what about Grigor? Brushed aside. Raonic? Who else? Nowhere!
10-Jun-2013 08:11 AM
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Broken_Shoelace Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
(10-Jun-2013 08:11 AM)Kieran Wrote:  Absolutely. It's barren out there at the moment. And we saw just how far away the likes of Tsonga, Ferrer etc are. I give Ferrer kudos for effort, though, whereas most of them are grinning at the net after a defeat, which seems bizarre to me.

The older players did well, but what about Grigor? Brushed aside. Raonic? Who else? Nowhere!

I'll give Grigor a pass. He got brushed aside by Djokovic. Hardly an embarrassment, unless people subscribed too much to the Madrid result.
10-Jun-2013 08:18 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
(10-Jun-2013 08:18 AM)Broken_Shoelace Wrote:  I'll give Grigor a pass. He got brushed aside by Djokovic. Hardly an embarrassment, unless people subscribed too much to the Madrid result.

Grigor was in the unfortunate position of actually having beaten a top player. So seldom this happens, it becomes huge news. Remember the same reactions to Soderling, who some people thought would win a slam.

And Mardy Fish.

I think we shouldn't call it a bandwagon anymore. We'll call it a Fishcart... :snigger
10-Jun-2013 08:22 AM
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Front242 Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
Well I'd say poor Mardy Fish has a pretty legit reason for not playing at the moment. Heart conditions are fairly alarm bell ringing for people, especially when we're talking athletes who push themselves to their physical limits. Surprised Fish hasn't retired yet tbh. Played a remarkably close match against Tsonga (2 tiebreaks) in his last match (considering how long since he last played) before taking time off again. Not looking good for him really and he should probably call it a day with tennis. A shame as I liked his aggressive tennis and he was nice to watch on grass and hardcourt.
10-Jun-2013 10:07 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
Obviously, I'm not referring to Mardy Fish's heart problems, which are unfortunate. I was referring to the bandwagon that rose around his name a couple of seasons ago when he reached the final in Canada and one poster began a thread on the old site asking if Mardy would win the US Open...
10-Jun-2013 10:13 AM
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Front242 Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
(10-Jun-2013 10:13 AM)Kieran Wrote:  Obviously, I'm not referring to Mardy Fish's heart problems, which are unfortunate. I was referring to the bandwagon that rose around his name a couple of seasons ago when he reached the final in Canada and one poster began a thread on the old site asking if Mardy would win the US Open...

Serious lol? Can't remember that! That's taking it a bit far in fairness.
10-Jun-2013 10:16 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
(10-Jun-2013 10:16 AM)Front242 Wrote:  
(10-Jun-2013 10:13 AM)Kieran Wrote:  Obviously, I'm not referring to Mardy Fish's heart problems, which are unfortunate. I was referring to the bandwagon that rose around his name a couple of seasons ago when he reached the final in Canada and one poster began a thread on the old site asking if Mardy would win the US Open...

Serious lol? Can't remember that! That's taking it a bit far in fairness.

Yeah, it was a Jerzy-moment. I can't remember who it was. It stuck in my mind, the absurdity of it. Obviously though, now you remind me of Mardy's unfortunate heart problems, I can't use Fishcart to describe these bandwagons that periodically roll through, though of course, maybe I will...
10-Jun-2013 10:22 AM
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Front242 Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
Well I still think Jerzy has bucket loads of potential to do big things in the future as he's only 22 and players are getting better and better later these days than 22, so I'm holding out some hope for him. Great player to watch.
10-Jun-2013 10:25 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
(10-Jun-2013 10:25 AM)Front242 Wrote:  Well I still think Jerzy has bucket loads of potential to do big things in the future as he's only 22 and players are getting better and better later these days than 22, so I'm holding out some hope for him. Great player to watch.

Jerzy makes Goran look like Einstein...
10-Jun-2013 10:30 AM
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herios Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
(10-Jun-2013 10:25 AM)Front242 Wrote:  Well I still think Jerzy has bucket loads of potential to do big things in the future as he's only 22 and players are getting better and better later these days than 22, so I'm holding out some hope for him. Great player to watch.

So do I. He has not even yet played a full year at the main ATP Tour and now he is at his best ranking ever # 22. Exactly a year ago he was only #139

(10-Jun-2013 10:30 AM)Kieran Wrote:  
(10-Jun-2013 10:25 AM)Front242 Wrote:  Well I still think Jerzy has bucket loads of potential to do big things in the future as he's only 22 and players are getting better and better later these days than 22, so I'm holding out some hope for him. Great player to watch.

Jerzy makes Goran look like Einstein...

I so hope he beats your boy one day...
(This post was last modified: 10-Jun-2013 10:43 AM by herios.)
10-Jun-2013 10:40 AM
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El Dude Online
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
As I've speculated, the current crop of young players on tour (~age 20-24) are a rather weak generation. Their chance to win big tournaments probably won't come for another year or two until Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray start showing signs of age.

Consequently the Big 3/4's dominance might be a bit extended by the lack of young talent.

Anyhow, I do think that come 2015-16, maybe even 2014, we'll start seeing Dimitrov, Raonic, and Janowicz challenge in bigger tournaments - certainly at least ATP 1000s. Think of them as akin to the Rios/Kafelnikov/Rafter/Moya/Costa generation, which bridged the great players of the 90s and the great players of the 00s.

The next truly great player is probably a teenager right now, which is unfortunate in that we'll probably never see the next great play the current greats anywhere near their peak form unless we're talking a 17-19 year old like Nick Kyrgios. If Kyrgios reaches a high level by age 21 (in three years) Novak and Andy will still "only" be 29, so we might see the baton passed then. I'm not saying Kyrgios is the Next Great Thing, but he's the only player age 18 and under that is currently on the radar.
(This post was last modified: 10-Jun-2013 10:55 AM by El Dude.)
10-Jun-2013 10:52 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
(10-Jun-2013 10:40 AM)herios Wrote:  I so hope he beats your boy one day...

Cool

(10-Jun-2013 10:52 AM)El Dude Wrote:  As I've speculated, the current crop of young players on tour (~age 20-23) are a rather weak generation. Their chance to win big tournaments probably won't come for another year or two until Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray start showing signs of age. Consequently the Big 3/4's dominance might be a bit extended by the lack of young talent. Anyhow, I do think that come 2015-16, maybe even 2014, we'll start seeing Dimitrov, Raonic, and Janowicz challenge in bigger tournaments - certainly at least ATP 1000s. But the next truly great player is probably a teenager or younger right now, which is unfortunate in that we'll probably never see the next great play the current greats anywhere near their peak form unless we're talking a 17-19 year old like Nick Kyrgios. If Kyrgios reaches a high level by age 21 (in three years) Novak and Andy will still "only" be 29, so we might see the baton passed then.

I'm not saying Kyrgios is the Next Great Thing, but he's the only player age 18 and under that is currently on the radar.

This is right, but not only are the youngsters who are there now weak, but apart from the top 3 +1 (and I'll always use the +1, because Murray just isn't of the calibre of the other three), so are the older players. Look at Tsonga. Look at Ferrer, who at least has a huge heart. These guys aren't gonna be taking any big prizes in the foreseeable either...
(This post was last modified: 10-Jun-2013 10:57 AM by Kieran.)
10-Jun-2013 10:54 AM
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JesuslookslikeBorg Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
I think some of the juniors get soft on that tour..

kyle Edmunds winning the mixed doubles boys/girls title at rg but he is 18 and a half years old..why is he still in juniors. ???.

knowing me alan partridge, knowing you tennis frontier..ah ha.
10-Jun-2013 11:18 AM
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El Dude Online
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
(10-Jun-2013 10:54 AM)Kieran Wrote:  This is right, but not only are the youngsters who are there now weak, but apart from the top 3 +1 (and I'll always use the +1, because Murray just isn't of the calibre of the other three), so are the older players. Look at Tsonga. Look at Ferrer, who at least has a huge heart. These guys aren't gonna be taking any big prizes in the foreseeable either...

Unfortunately I think its 2+2 at this point, at least that's my fear based upon Roger's 2013 so far, but I hold out hope that we'll see another run from Roger and even another Slam title.

But I agree with you. For the last few years there's been a steep drop-off between the elite and rest of the field. For a couple years it was unclear whether Murray was "worst of the best" or "best of the rest"; after winning Olympic gold, the US Open, and being a frequent Slam finalist, I think he has earned his place in the elite, although not a candidate for best in the game. If Andy is no longer the best player in Open Era history to never win a Slam, he could challenge Guillermo Vilas eventually for best player never to be ranked #1 (although Vilas should have in 1977 when he won two Slams and #1 Connors didn't win any, but that's another conversation).

For a bit there Soderling seemed like the "diplomat" between the two camps, and then it looked like Del Potro could fill that spot, or even become a true elite, but he hasn't been able to differentiate himself from the near-elites since returning from injury.

If Federer doesn't turn himself around maybe he'll be that in-betweener, although its actually looking like he isn't any better than the Ferrer/Tsonga/Berdych group right now, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

So right now I see some rather distinct groupings:

Candidates for best player in the game: Djokovic, Nadal

(small but significant gap)

"Lesser elites": Murray, Federer

(big gap)

"Near-elites": Ferrer, Tsonga, Berdych, Del Potro

(big gap)

Everyone else

We talk about that gap between the "lesser elites" and "near elites" being rather large, but the gap between the "near elites" and everyone else is just as large; the only difference is that it is more traveled - players are frequently challenging for a spot in the near elites, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Wawrinka hang out there for a bit, and it only seems like a matter of time before Raonic, Janowicz, and Dimitrov knock on the door.

But the last player to join the true elites of the game was Andy Murray, and he's been in the top 5 for five years now. Del Potro challenged but didn't get there, perhaps largely due to injury, and I think is unlikely to ever win a Slam again.

I think the big concern is that there's no one that looks like a serious candidate to rise any higher than the near elites. I think Raonic, Janowicz, and Dimitrov are all near-elite talents, but I don't see any as true elites. Beyond them, well...who is there? No one, at least no one on the horizon.

So even if and when Novak, Rafa, and Andy start losing a half-step (which is very common around age 27), it will be somewhat masked by the lack of top young talent. In another year or two I think we'll enter a 2-3 year period in which the current greats are slipping (if only a bit, which is all it will take to be challenged), the current young guns are peaking, and the next great(s) haven't entered their prime yet, although we'll probably know who they might be by then. Who knows when this period will start, but I'd guess we'll start seeing the first signs of it in 2014, it will be quite underway in 2015, and last until 2017 or 2018, when players currently age 17-18 will be 21-22 and really coming into their own (like Kyrgios). So 2014-2018 will probably be similar to 1999-2003, when Sampragassi was on the decline and Fedal hadn't risen yet (although, to be fair, Agassi was having a renaissance, but their combined dominance wasn't quite as significant).
10-Jun-2013 11:54 AM
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herios Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
(10-Jun-2013 11:54 AM)El Dude Wrote:  So right now I see some rather distinct groupings:

Candidates for best player in the game: Djokovic, Nadal

(small but significant gap)

"Lesser elites": Murray, Federer

(big gap)

"Near-elites": Ferrer, Tsonga, Berdych, Del Potro

(big gap)

Everyone else

el Dude
For how long you'll keep putting Ferrer down in the same group with Tsonga, Berdych and Delpo?
Right after he just demonstrated that he is a lot better than them?
He keeps besting his results and you still are discounting them.
Why? Because if his size?

Ferrer has spent most of this year ranked #4 and I am alsmost sure he will continue staying there, because, even if Rafa will get ahead of him after SW, he is in Roger heels now and if Roger ill not defend his title in Wimbledon, David has chances tp pass him next.


Bottom line, David is not belonging to the group of Berdych, Tsonga and Delpo, because his way far ahead of them in consistency and results.
10-Jun-2013 12:26 PM
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El Dude Online
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
Herios, first of all Ferrer is much closer to the near-elites than the elites. Second of all, while obviously his overall record has been better over the last year and a half, I don't think he's capable of playing at as high a level as the other three. So while I agree that he's "way far ahead of them in consistency and results" he's not as much of a threat to upset one of the elite in a Slam.

Research to come...

OK, I just checked the Slam records of the four players I'm calling "near elite" over 2012-13, the last six Slams. Here are their records against the Big Four:

Ferrer 1-6
Tsonga 1-3
Berdych 1-3
Del Potro 0-3

It would see my assertion that Ferrer is less likely to upset one of the Big Four is not true - at least as far as Slams go. It is also telling that he's played them much more, meaning he goes deeper - often beating the others to get to the elite players.

I still think Ferrer is closer to those three than he is to Murray and Federer. Ferrer is the "best of the rest," but not "the worst of the best" - that would be Murray, or perhaps Federer now.

Actually, I'd love to see Ferrer and Federer play. Roger completely owns David, with a 14-0 record. But they haven't played since the 2012 ATP World Tour Finals when Roger was still playing at a high level. I think David might have a chance against him, although that's assuming Roger doesn't return to a higher form during the grass and hard-court seasons, which I think is very possible.

On a side note, the three upsets of Big Four players are two to Federer and one to Murray. Other than the Rosol incident, Rafa and Novak have not been beaten at a Slam over the last year and a half by anyone other than other members of the Big Four.
(This post was last modified: 10-Jun-2013 01:52 PM by El Dude.)
10-Jun-2013 01:36 PM
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huntingyou Offline
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
I'm willing to place Ferrer in it's own unique ranking. herios it's absolutely right when it comes to Ferrer not belonging to the likes of Berdych and Tsonga. The guys is actually getting BETTER as a player, he has 6 Slams SF and numerous finals/SF at ATP 1000 level.

El Dude has a point when it comes to how much of a challenge can Ferrer present to the other 3? Because of their games, all three of them are horrible match-ups for him. Federer owns him as well but it would be intriguing to see them play on slow surfaces........Federer hasn't look good in a long time and it's reason for concern.

So, we can call Ferrer "little big one"........the best among the rest.
10-Jun-2013 04:26 PM
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RE: Is Daveed Ferrer the Future of TENNIS?!
I like what huntingyou said about Ferrer getting his own unique category. He's in the weird spot of being "better" than Tsonga, Berdych, and Del Potro -- and I believe he usually beats them -- but he also poses less of a threat on any given day to the "elites" when he faces them than T, B, and DP do. I think the key word is consistency; Ferrer is more consistent, but he has less of an up-side than the other three.
(This post was last modified: 10-Jun-2013 11:56 PM by Alex.)
10-Jun-2013 11:56 PM
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