(21-Apr-2015 04:17 PM)federberg Wrote: You're absolutely right colour shouldn't come into it. It seems to me that the whole rationale for the BlackLivesMatter campaign is that there is a question mark about whether the police and perhaps society at large might not be colour blind.
In other words, the whole reason this is being talked about is to trump up another story about institutional white racism toward minorities, particularly black people - a trivial conversation that doesn't help any regular person in their daily lives address truly significant problems. Police brutality mostly occurs under extreme circumstances of duress. It doesn't concern day-to-day realities for the vast majority of regular people of all races.
(21-Apr-2015 04:17 PM)federberg Wrote: You only have to look at the response from Cali to see that there might indeed be a problem (I'm not calling you a racist Cali please don't think that).
Whatever you call me, just please don't call me whatever you consider yourself or riotbeard to be. I certainly believe that race is a reality in human life and I believe that we should embrace the racial diversity of human beings and appreciate it as something that makes life richer and more interesting. If I want a good taco, I go to a taquiero where everyone is Mexican and speaks Spanish. I don't go to the house of a Norwegian family trying to imitate the real thing.
I also do not believe in the hilariously stupid and irrational leftist notion that race is a "social construct", which has been refuted by centuries-worth of science up to the present day. Most doctors don't say anything about it in public because they don't want the inquisitors of the secular religious authorities to demand their heads, but anyone who knows anything at all about neuroscience or physiology understands that racial differences are real. There is a reason that black people comprise all of the speed positions in the NFL being just 15% of the American population - and no, riotbeard and federberg, it is not because of institutional sports racism against white people. Try to find a white LeBron James or a white Kam Chancellor; you'll be looking for a while.
And, btw, I am a racist against ideological white people. I generally can't stand them and I find them to be the most repulsive racial subgroup of human beings. They have wreaked immense havoc on the human race with their boneheaded ideas, from "Communism" to "National Socialism" to "democracy" and now to "equality". I can't stand these people and if ISIS blows up EU headquarters, then in my eyes they are only getting what they deserve. The modern incarnation of these white people pretend to care so much about African-Americans when no subset of the human race could frankly be more different from black people than they are.
(21-Apr-2015 04:17 PM)federberg Wrote: We are trying to debate a specific issue, and he tries to co-opt it by talking about black on black crime.
Because you titled your thread "Black Lives Matter" and far more black lives are taken by black-on-black homicide than by cops killing black people. You apparently like statistics in tennis but dislike them on this topic.
(21-Apr-2015 04:17 PM)federberg Wrote: Yes there's no doubt that this is an endemic issue, but it quite misses the mark. Are black lives valued less in America by the authorities?
The only way that this argument holds in any water in the manner that you intend it to is if you can document a pervasive pattern of police brutality with hard numbers that show a disproportionate ratio in relation to other related statistics. So, for example, if you could document that the number of homicides of cops against black people in an area with as low a crime rate as neighboring non-black areas was much higher for a period of years, then you'd be talking. But you are not providing any numbers of this sort. You are just speaking in generalities with a total of 5 cases across a nation of 320 million as your evidence.
(21-Apr-2015 04:17 PM)federberg Wrote: Is it really the case that a young black man will be more severely punished by the system than a young white man, for exactly the same crime. Are the fundamental assumptions made about the different communities different?
Federberg, now you are talking about a more relevant question, a deeper question. So allow me to answer: the fundamental assumptions about these different communities made by the reality-disconnected and reality-hating media and "educators" are not different, but the assumptions made by the police in practice are different. And that is because they actually have to work in high-crime areas instead of discuss them with other white people in classrooms for their own moral fulfillment. If you were a cop, you would view a city with a violent crime rate 10 times greater than the statewide rate with added suspicion too.
So let me give you a tangible example and have you answer some questions about it. One city in the northeastern U.S. that has a major crime problem with a predominantly black community is Camden, New Jersey. (They don't have tennis clubs there with do-gooding white feminists and sociologists getting a couple swings in with their pals before going out for drinks, in case you are wondering.) According to FBI statistics
, "New Jerseyâ€
s violent crime rate is moderately low, at 290.2 per 100,000 or around 2.9 per 1,000 residents. Camdenâ€
s violent crime rate is much higher than the statewide average, at 25.69 per 1,000." In 2013, there were apparently a total of 1,995 violent crimes in Camden that were officially recorded and prosecuted by police. It is also commonly known that there is widespread abuse of drugs in Camden, particularly heroin. Burglaries and motor vehicle thefts (and just thefts in general) are common. And if you combine the total violent and property crimes in 2013, there were 6,080 in the city.
So let me ask you, Federberg, two questions:
1) Given those kinds of numbers, how petty is it for us as a society to make a big deal out of a couple isolated incidents of police brutality when there is chaos with crime in general in cities like Camden? In Camden alone (just one city), we are talking about 1,995 violent crimes in a single year, including a couple hundred murders. Not to mention the welfare dependency and family breakdown.
2) If you were a cop in an area like Camden, do you think that your attitude on a daily basis would be the same as it would be if you were working in a college town or your standard boring white community in Middle America?
(21-Apr-2015 04:17 PM)federberg Wrote: How can it be that we are trying to have a discussion about how the police might be guilty of fabrications to justify crimes against some black people (not all), but Cali can be so focussed on a depressing sociological issue that he seems to prefer to disregard the specific subject matter?
I am not shifting the discussion to anything irrelevant. When you look at the scale of violent crime in areas like St. Louis or Camden, it has an immediate relevance to police attitudes. There are so many crimes for them to track that of course they are going to be more aggressive in those areas than they would be elsewhere. The violent crime rate in Camden is 12 times greater than in the rest of New Jersey. Can you blame cops in that area for being more on edge and more aggressive than they are, say, in Princeton? And don't forget, they are fearing for their lives as well.
And I am saying this as someone who has seen cops be jackasses for no good reason, particularly in college towns, and generally doesn't have a very favorable attitude toward police in general. What I object to is the utter pettiness of bringing up police brutality in respect to race when there are far more significant and widespread problems in the black community than a couple of these isolated incidents.
Finally, I will conclude by saying this: the likes of Riotbeard do not want to have a fundamental conversation about these more important issues because they don't want to face the reality of what so many urban communities have become as a result of their ideas. The Great Society socialist programs of Lyndon Johnson have been in place for 50 years and they have utterly failed. The old Democratic Party activist Bob Beckel - who now works for Fox News - even admitted two years ago that was happened in these communities is not what him and his friends wanted or intended back in the 60s. He admitted it has been a disaster.
But, hey, we shouldn't talk about that. We should celebrate how black people have the "right to vote" 95%-plus in every election for the Democrats. I have a friend who in 2012 was working at an inner-city school that was all black and at the time of the election he heard the students saying that "if Romney won, he would take away condoms and bring back slavery" - clearly what they were hearing from their parents. Those are some really well-informed voters right there, I must say.
And, boy, am I glad I have never once voted in an election. Down with democracy!