BOARD TALK
The fastest growing tennis discussion forum on the planet.


Post Reply 
Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
Author Message
Moxie629 Offline
Multiple Slam Winner
********

Posts: 9,429
Likes Given: 3,414
Likes Received: 2,277 in 1,599 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
Johnsteinbeck, [our member, not the author of "The Grapes of Wrath Cool,] has translated an article from the Swiss press, which I put on my translations blog, about the state of things between the two top Swiss men:

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/blogs/moxi...n-of-eden/

Interesting to have the perspective from their home country. Kind of gossipy. Wink
(This post was last modified: 28-May-2013 05:45 PM by Moxie629.)
28-May-2013 03:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Moxie629's post:
Iona16 (05-28-2013)
Iona16 Offline
Masters Titleist
*****

Posts: 834
Likes Given: 345
Likes Received: 588 in 277 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
The journalist Neil Harman (The Times) is friends with Wawrinka and when Federer was beaten in Madrid he tweeted this..

'I should remind depressed Swiss that there remains a player with a single handed backhand from their country in the tournament.'

... and Wawrinka later retweeted it.

Apparently, the Swiss journalists left Madrid when Federer was knocked out. To be honest I'm not sure Swiss tennis deserves Wawrinka .

Lest We Forget
28-May-2013 05:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Iona16's post:
BalaryKar (05-29-2013), tented (05-28-2013)
Riotbeard Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 4,787
Likes Given: 5,519
Likes Received: 1,847 in 1,181 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
I am not too suprised. Federer's ego is often underrated, and his general apathy towards Davis cup is pretty annoying IMO. Thanks for the translation. Interesting to hear the specifics.
28-May-2013 06:20 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Denisovich Offline
Grand Slam Champion
*******

Posts: 3,826
Likes Given: 1,325
Likes Received: 877 in 627 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
(28-May-2013 06:20 PM)Riotbeard Wrote:  I am not too suprised. Federer's ego is often underrated, and his general apathy towards Davis cup is pretty annoying IMO. Thanks for the translation. Interesting to hear the specifics.

LOL, almost as if we're talking about his game as in 'his backhand is underrated' Big Smile. I agree with Iona that I am not sure whether the Swiss deserve Wawrinka. But maybe it was the German speaking press that left and there are not much French speaking Swiss interested in tennis?

Anyway, I hope Wawrinka can seal a dramatic victory over Federer in a slam. That would be nice.

Thanks for the translation btw.
29-May-2013 05:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
johnsteinbeck Offline
Major Winner
******

Posts: 1,010
Likes Given: 338
Likes Received: 307 in 177 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
^ well, yes and no on the German/French Swiss part. The German Swiss usually aren't shy with adopting a Romand ('s success) as their own; reservations the other way around are usually bigger; also, Stan is actually half German (even including citizenship), as his father is German/Polish/Czech (complicated yet?), so there's potential for cross over appeal to Swiss Germans (although Swiss Germans often dislike Germans; maybe that's part of the problem).
i don't know whether or not the Romands are less into tennis than the German Swiss are. they surely are less (in number), in any case, so that might indeed be a small factor. but i'm afraid that even the Romands are less into Stan than they are into Fed. among other things, the French (even if they're Swiss French) will always be likely to prefer style over force. and in the end, we also have the personal life issues - Mr. Clean vs. Mr. I'm leaving my (celebrity) wife and newborn kid to concentrate on tennis (i know they're back together, but stuff like that just isn't good PR and usually sticks).


anyway, i think the real issue behind the Swiss' occasional lack of love for Stan is that they're spoilt by success. we shouldn't forget that right before the arrival of Fed/TMF, they had Martina Hingis on top of the women's game. population-wise, they're smaller than the Chicago metropolitan area - yet in 14 out of the last 17 years, there was a Swiss slam winner, and they held a #1 ranking for over 500 weeks since '98 (almost 10 out of 15 years!). it's the dilemma Roddick faced, only much intensified by how recent and how intense the national success was - and still is (let's not forget that Fed is still more successful than Stan even as of today). does that mean the Swiss don't deserve him? idk, i reckon it's not *that* much different in other countries for second/third/ tier guys. what about Tipsy in Serbia?

as for a dramatic victory over Fed? sure would be entertaining, but i have my doubts. you'd think that 2009 might have been a breakthrough in that matchup, but i still can't believe that Stan found a way to lose their match at IW, against one of the worst performances i've ever seen by Fed.
(This post was last modified: 29-May-2013 06:50 AM by johnsteinbeck.)
29-May-2013 06:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
coban Offline
Pro
***

Posts: 97
Likes Given: 39
Likes Received: 43 in 23 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
There is another swiss player as well... Stefanie Voegele. Made it to the 2nd round as well:-)
29-May-2013 09:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
lindseywagners Offline
Pro
***

Posts: 130
Likes Given: 6
Likes Received: 15 in 10 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
(28-May-2013 06:20 PM)Riotbeard Wrote:  I am not too suprised. Federer's ego is often underrated, and his general apathy towards Davis cup is pretty annoying IMO. Thanks for the translation. Interesting to hear the specifics.

People often think that rising to the top can be done benevolently. It takes a certain edge to get there, in my opinion. It might appear innocent in the spotlight but the dark stuff is underneath it all.
(This post was last modified: 29-May-2013 09:14 AM by lindseywagners.)
29-May-2013 09:13 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
DarthFed Offline
Multiple Slam Winner
********

Posts: 7,331
Likes Given: 830
Likes Received: 1,947 in 1,281 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
More fuss being made over Davis Cup? That should have been more of an issue 5-6 years ago if it should be made an issue at all. Fed is 32 in a couple months and is rightly only focused on big events and cutting down his schedule. Money, glory and fame comes from ATP tennis, not in what would always be a losing effort in a nation with only one other decent player. If you ask him what he wants more: another slam or one Davis Cup he'd be a fool to take the latter.
29-May-2013 12:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Denisovich Offline
Grand Slam Champion
*******

Posts: 3,826
Likes Given: 1,325
Likes Received: 877 in 627 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
(29-May-2013 12:50 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  More fuss being made over Davis Cup? That should have been more of an issue 5-6 years ago if it should be made an issue at all. Fed is 32 in a couple months and is rightly only focused on big events and cutting down his schedule. Money, glory and fame comes from ATP tennis, not in what would always be a losing effort in a nation with only one other decent player. If you ask him what he wants more: another slam or one Davis Cup he'd be a fool to take the latter.

The nice thing about Davis Cup is that you are not playing for yourself but for other people, but I don't really warm up to the representing your country thing either.

There is no way that it would always be a losing effort with only one other decent player. Switzerland should have won the Davis Cup many times over the last few years and they still have a good shot potentially. Wawrinka is a top 10 player. You basically only need two excellent players to win. Or even less (Czech Republic). Federer chose otherwise.
29-May-2013 01:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
DarthFed Offline
Multiple Slam Winner
********

Posts: 7,331
Likes Given: 830
Likes Received: 1,947 in 1,281 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
(29-May-2013 01:25 PM)Denisovich Wrote:  
(29-May-2013 12:50 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  More fuss being made over Davis Cup? That should have been more of an issue 5-6 years ago if it should be made an issue at all. Fed is 32 in a couple months and is rightly only focused on big events and cutting down his schedule. Money, glory and fame comes from ATP tennis, not in what would always be a losing effort in a nation with only one other decent player. If you ask him what he wants more: another slam or one Davis Cup he'd be a fool to take the latter.

The nice thing about Davis Cup is that you are not playing for yourself but for other people, but I don't really warm up to the representing your country thing either.

There is no way that it would always be a losing effort with only one other decent player. Switzerland should have won the Davis Cup many times over the last few years and they still have a good shot potentially. Wawrinka is a top 10 player. You basically only need two excellent players to win. Or even less (Czech Republic). Federer chose otherwise.

Federer has played plenty of times for them including last year where they lost to USA. Last year was their best hope...no Rafa, no Djokovic (I don't hear them being criticized for not playing). Some people are making it sound like Roger has never played Davis Cup before. At this point it is not a priority for him and it shouldn't be. He is no fool, his chances at majors will get less and less and there is no reason to make things worse by potentially overplaying.
29-May-2013 01:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
johnsteinbeck Offline
Major Winner
******

Posts: 1,010
Likes Given: 338
Likes Received: 307 in 177 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
(29-May-2013 01:25 PM)Denisovich Wrote:  
(29-May-2013 12:50 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  More fuss being made over Davis Cup? That should have been more of an issue 5-6 years ago if it should be made an issue at all. Fed is 32 in a couple months and is rightly only focused on big events and cutting down his schedule. Money, glory and fame comes from ATP tennis, not in what would always be a losing effort in a nation with only one other decent player. If you ask him what he wants more: another slam or one Davis Cup he'd be a fool to take the latter.

The nice thing about Davis Cup is that you are not playing for yourself but for other people, but I don't really warm up to the representing your country thing either.


There is no way that it would always be a losing effort with only one other decent player. Switzerland should have won the Davis Cup many times over the last few years and they still have a good shot potentially. Wawrinka is a top 10 player. You basically only need two excellent players to win. Or even less (Czech Republic). Federer chose otherwise.

the funny thing is that Switzerland actually once managed a runner-up finish... in '92. with Rosset and Hlasek. DC is a weird thing. they didn't really come close in the final though.

as to Darth's question/point: the DC thing is really just a throwaway line somewhere in the middle, hardly the foundation of the article. actually, Fed just the other day announced that he won't play the relegation tie v Ecuador, and i've yet to read real complaints about that in the press.
(This post was last modified: 29-May-2013 01:42 PM by johnsteinbeck.)
29-May-2013 01:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Denisovich Offline
Grand Slam Champion
*******

Posts: 3,826
Likes Given: 1,325
Likes Received: 877 in 627 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
(29-May-2013 01:31 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  
(29-May-2013 01:25 PM)Denisovich Wrote:  
(29-May-2013 12:50 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  More fuss being made over Davis Cup? That should have been more of an issue 5-6 years ago if it should be made an issue at all. Fed is 32 in a couple months and is rightly only focused on big events and cutting down his schedule. Money, glory and fame comes from ATP tennis, not in what would always be a losing effort in a nation with only one other decent player. If you ask him what he wants more: another slam or one Davis Cup he'd be a fool to take the latter.

The nice thing about Davis Cup is that you are not playing for yourself but for other people, but I don't really warm up to the representing your country thing either.

There is no way that it would always be a losing effort with only one other decent player. Switzerland should have won the Davis Cup many times over the last few years and they still have a good shot potentially. Wawrinka is a top 10 player. You basically only need two excellent players to win. Or even less (Czech Republic). Federer chose otherwise.

Federer has played plenty of times for them including last year where they lost to USA. Last year was their best hope...no Rafa, no Djokovic (I don't hear them being criticized for not playing). Some people are making it sound like Roger has never played Davis Cup before. At this point it is not a priority for him and it shouldn't be. He is no fool, his chances at majors will get less and less and there is no reason to make things worse by potentially overplaying.

That's true, he has played quite often in the past. He has a 43 - 15 win-loss record (74,1%) at DC. That's below average. He is 897–204 total (81,4%). Somehow it doesn't work for him.

I agree that now he's getting older the moment seems to have passed. Tough luck for the Swiss and tough luck for Wawrinka.
29-May-2013 01:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
DarthFed Offline
Multiple Slam Winner
********

Posts: 7,331
Likes Given: 830
Likes Received: 1,947 in 1,281 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
(29-May-2013 01:52 PM)Denisovich Wrote:  
(29-May-2013 01:31 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  
(29-May-2013 01:25 PM)Denisovich Wrote:  
(29-May-2013 12:50 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  More fuss being made over Davis Cup? That should have been more of an issue 5-6 years ago if it should be made an issue at all. Fed is 32 in a couple months and is rightly only focused on big events and cutting down his schedule. Money, glory and fame comes from ATP tennis, not in what would always be a losing effort in a nation with only one other decent player. If you ask him what he wants more: another slam or one Davis Cup he'd be a fool to take the latter.

The nice thing about Davis Cup is that you are not playing for yourself but for other people, but I don't really warm up to the representing your country thing either.

There is no way that it would always be a losing effort with only one other decent player. Switzerland should have won the Davis Cup many times over the last few years and they still have a good shot potentially. Wawrinka is a top 10 player. You basically only need two excellent players to win. Or even less (Czech Republic). Federer chose otherwise.

Federer has played plenty of times for them including last year where they lost to USA. Last year was their best hope...no Rafa, no Djokovic (I don't hear them being criticized for not playing). Some people are making it sound like Roger has never played Davis Cup before. At this point it is not a priority for him and it shouldn't be. He is no fool, his chances at majors will get less and less and there is no reason to make things worse by potentially overplaying.

That's true, he has played quite often in the past. He has a 43 - 15 win-loss record (74,1%) at DC. That's below average. He is 897–204 total (81,4%). Somehow it doesn't work for him.

I agree that now he's getting older the moment seems to have passed. Tough luck for the Swiss and tough luck for Wawrinka.

He played more when he was younger and not as good. So the win-loss record is not surprising. Off of memory the only singles loss I remember him having in Davis Cup the last 7-8 years has been to Isner last year.

(29-May-2013 01:35 PM)johnsteinbeck Wrote:  
(29-May-2013 01:25 PM)Denisovich Wrote:  
(29-May-2013 12:50 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  More fuss being made over Davis Cup? That should have been more of an issue 5-6 years ago if it should be made an issue at all. Fed is 32 in a couple months and is rightly only focused on big events and cutting down his schedule. Money, glory and fame comes from ATP tennis, not in what would always be a losing effort in a nation with only one other decent player. If you ask him what he wants more: another slam or one Davis Cup he'd be a fool to take the latter.

The nice thing about Davis Cup is that you are not playing for yourself but for other people, but I don't really warm up to the representing your country thing either.


There is no way that it would always be a losing effort with only one other decent player. Switzerland should have won the Davis Cup many times over the last few years and they still have a good shot potentially. Wawrinka is a top 10 player. You basically only need two excellent players to win. Or even less (Czech Republic). Federer chose otherwise.

the funny thing is that Switzerland actually once managed a runner-up finish... in '92. with Rosset and Hlasek. DC is a weird thing. they didn't really come close in the final though.

as to Darth's question/point: the DC thing is really just a throwaway line somewhere in the middle, hardly the foundation of the article. actually, Fed just the other day announced that he won't play the relegation tie v Ecuador, and i've yet to read real complaints about that in the press.

Yes but I believe DC is the foundation of the Swiss Federation's and Stan's issues with Federer. If they truly are no longer friends I think it might have started with Stan's complaints about Roger not caring about Davis Cup
(This post was last modified: 29-May-2013 02:02 PM by DarthFed.)
29-May-2013 02:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Denisovich Offline
Grand Slam Champion
*******

Posts: 3,826
Likes Given: 1,325
Likes Received: 877 in 627 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
The difference with Djokovic is that he loves playing DC, and everybody knows it. He also actually did win Serbia a DC title. And he usually plays, even if he twists his ankle.

Full list of Federer's ties here: http://www.daviscup.com/en/players/playe...d=10019424

He lost quite some doubles matches and he lost to Hewitt.
(This post was last modified: 29-May-2013 02:05 PM by Denisovich.)
29-May-2013 02:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
DarthFed Offline
Multiple Slam Winner
********

Posts: 7,331
Likes Given: 830
Likes Received: 1,947 in 1,281 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
(29-May-2013 02:02 PM)Denisovich Wrote:  The difference with Djokovic is that he loves playing DC, and everybody knows it. He also actually did win Serbia a DC title. And he usually plays, even if he twists his ankle.

Full list of Federer's ties here: http://www.daviscup.com/en/players/playe...d=10019424

He lost quite some doubles matches and he lost to Hewitt.

Yes, I knew the Hewitt match and it is not surprising he lost a lot in doubles. But as you see he has played his fair share and has only had the loss to Isner in the past 10 years now. So I might point the blame elsewhere for the Swiss sucking in Davis Cup. How has Stan the Man fared in comparison Smile

Federer has won the Swiss a silver medal and was of course the main force behind the gold in doubles. That's way bigger than a Davis Cup anyways.
29-May-2013 02:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Denisovich Offline
Grand Slam Champion
*******

Posts: 3,826
Likes Given: 1,325
Likes Received: 877 in 627 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
Stan the Man who loves the Icecream Van has a career win-loss record in DC of 18-22 (45%).

That is well .... not great. He is 272- 184 total (59,6%). But he has played every year he was able to, and I think always plays actually.

I think they should change the Olympics tennis event into a team competition. But that is another discussion, the doubles gold was great for Stan/Fed.
29-May-2013 03:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
johnsteinbeck Offline
Major Winner
******

Posts: 1,010
Likes Given: 338
Likes Received: 307 in 177 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
^ wow. that's actually a pretty bad w/l record compared to his general stats - the difference is bigger than it is for Fed. is it a five set thing? no idea.
31-May-2013 03:10 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
tented Offline
Potential GOAT
*********

Posts: 11,618
Likes Given: 4,705
Likes Received: 3,392 in 2,108 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
(29-May-2013 01:31 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  Federer has played plenty of times for them including last year where they lost to USA. Last year was their best hope...no Rafa, no Djokovic (I don't hear them being criticized for not playing). Some people are making it sound like Roger has never played Davis Cup before. At this point it is not a priority for him and it shouldn't be. He is no fool, his chances at majors will get less and less and there is no reason to make things worse by potentially overplaying.

Federer was as interested in winning that DC encounter with the US, as he is in novocain-free dental surgery.

One word: Olympics.
31-May-2013 03:29 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
johnsteinbeck Offline
Major Winner
******

Posts: 1,010
Likes Given: 338
Likes Received: 307 in 177 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
are you suggesting he actually preferred Not to win that tie?

that said, given that you play for your country, he might have been right if he thought that way. got a feeling that his medal, even if it was "just" silver, was worth more to the Swiss than a run to the semis in DC would've been.
31-May-2013 03:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
tented Offline
Potential GOAT
*********

Posts: 11,618
Likes Given: 4,705
Likes Received: 3,392 in 2,108 posts
Joined: Apr 2013
RE: Federer and Wawrinka rivalry?
(31-May-2013 03:40 AM)johnsteinbeck Wrote:  are you suggesting he actually preferred Not to win that tie?

that said, given that you play for your country, he might have been right if he thought that way. got a feeling that his medal, even if it was "just" silver, was worth more to the Swiss than a run to the semis in DC would've been.

Exactly. He played as much DC as was needed to qualify for the Olympics. Anything beyond that would have required more DC leading up to the Olympics.
31-May-2013 03:49 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)