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johnsteinbeck Offline
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Boston
Not a good first post on the new forum, but nonetheless one I felt I needed to do.

My thoughts and (the next best thing i have to) prayers are with all the runners, their families, spectators, the whole City of Boston. I'm not sure if we have any Bostonians among the members of these boards, but I hope everyone is safe and sound, wherever you are.

I still can't quite grasp what has happened, let alone why. I know that on a global scale, this is but a minor incident within the daily flood of terror and bloodshed. I must admit that there's a egocentrism in feeling so strongly about this tragedy. I'm currently preparing for my first marathon, which will be in a major US city; Through online communities, a long distance training-group, if you will, I got to know some of the runners - thankfully, all of them and their families are safe.

So what do we make of this, how do we, once again, go on? I can't say. The Boston Marathon is probably one of the greatest fusions of elite sport and mass celebration. some amateur runners train years to qualify. others come there running for charities, collecting and donating thousands for noble causes. some of the greatest runners in the world come to compete. everyone is cheered and celebrated. running might be a truly individualist sport. but if one stumbles, trust that there will be a fellow runner to help him up. and the Boston Marathon is a party for the whole city, the community and their guests. who on earth sees this as a target, as something to destroy, as means to an end of spreading fear?


i don't know what this means for similar events. but i do know the foundation of running is perseverance. keeping on. and that's not gonna change, i believe.
16-Apr-2013 03:05 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Boston
(16-Apr-2013 03:05 AM)johnsteinbeck Wrote:  who on earth sees this as a target, as something to destroy, as means to an end of spreading fear?

Who on earth, indeed. I wonder if anyone has claimed responsibility. I'm sure security will be tighter from now on - what a world we live in, eh? - but this was a malicious and senseless attack on innocent people and I suppose the only grim piece of joy to gain from it is that the casualties so far are not even greater...
16-Apr-2013 04:09 AM
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tented Offline
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RE: Boston
(16-Apr-2013 04:09 AM)Kieran Wrote:  
(16-Apr-2013 03:05 AM)johnsteinbeck Wrote:  who on earth sees this as a target, as something to destroy, as means to an end of spreading fear?

Who on earth, indeed. I wonder if anyone has claimed responsibility. I'm sure security will be tighter from now on - what a world we live in, eh? - but this was a malicious and senseless attack on innocent people and I suppose the only grim piece of joy to gain from it is that the casualties so far are not even greater...

No one has claimed responsibility that I've heard or read of over here. My gut instinct is that it was an individual, and not some group, but I could be wrong.

The videos and pictures are gruesome. I advise people not to look at them.

Very sick.
16-Apr-2013 04:25 AM
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shawnbm Offline
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RE: Boston
(16-Apr-2013 04:25 AM)tented Wrote:  
(16-Apr-2013 04:09 AM)Kieran Wrote:  
(16-Apr-2013 03:05 AM)johnsteinbeck Wrote:  who on earth sees this as a target, as something to destroy, as means to an end of spreading fear?

Who on earth, indeed. I wonder if anyone has claimed responsibility. I'm sure security will be tighter from now on - what a world we live in, eh? - but this was a malicious and senseless attack on innocent people and I suppose the only grim piece of joy to gain from it is that the casualties so far are not even greater...

No one has claimed responsibility that I've heard or read of over here. My gut instinct is that it was an individual, and not some group, but I could be wrong.

The videos and pictures are gruesome. I advise people not to look at them.

Very sick.

There is still a lot of conjecture about this. On the one hand, it seems the work of one person or a very small group, but it was not against a federal government building so it is unlikely akin to the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. On the other hand, it had the second bomb detonating ten seconds after the first and in an area to kill or maim a maximum number of civilians--very al Qaeda-like. I like the theory that it could be "self-radicalized Islamists" of the greater Boston area. Either way, it is a sad sad day.
16-Apr-2013 09:39 AM
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Broken_Shoelace Offline
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RE: Boston
I'd stay clear of pointing fingers in situations like that. Not that the "islamists" theory isn't possible or anything, but this is a huge tragedy, people lost their lives including an 8 year old (what the hell is wrong with the world?), so IMO, it deserves to be handled with delicacy. We all want to know what happened and who did it, but it was disgusting seeing the media cry "Islam" the moment it happened, when the victims were still scattered on the streets...
16-Apr-2013 01:18 PM
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shawnbm Offline
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RE: Boston
(16-Apr-2013 01:18 PM)Broken_Shoelace Wrote:  I'd stay clear of pointing fingers in situations like that. Not that the "islamists" theory isn't possible or anything, but this is a huge tragedy, people lost their lives including an 8 year old (what the hell is wrong with the world?), so IMO, it deserves to be handled with delicacy. We all want to know what happened and who did it, but it was disgusting seeing the media cry "Islam" the moment it happened, when the victims were still scattered on the streets...

You are correct, and I stand corrected. I guess I fell prey to the prevailing winds of modern terrorism--although I know it is not just militant followers of Islam who engage in it. Whoever did this, may they be found and arrested soon.
16-Apr-2013 03:24 PM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: Boston
My initial reaction was that it was a domestic group or just one crazy individual acting alone. The White trash, excuse me...white power groups have been causing a lot of mayhem this past year and not just against minorities. Nothing in this country is surprising at this point. Also it seems too small for it to be Al Qaeda. It is tragic regardless and hopefully they get to the bottom of it.
(This post was last modified: 16-Apr-2013 06:13 PM by DarthFed.)
16-Apr-2013 06:12 PM
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Moxie629 Offline
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RE: Boston
(16-Apr-2013 06:12 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  My initial reaction was that it was a domestic group or just one crazy individual acting alone. The White trash, excuse me...white power groups have been causing a lot of mayhem this past year and not just against minorities. Nothing in this country is surprising at this point. Also it seems too small for it to be Al Qaeda. It is tragic regardless and hopefully they get to the bottom of it.

I agree that it's early to make assumptions, but I'd be surprised if it's an individual. And it was tax-deadline day in the US, and Patriot's Day in Boston, so the inclination is to think right-wingers. I'm not pointing in a direction, just cautioning those who would go straight to Islamist extremists.

I appreciate John's initial post. As an sometimes marathoner, and a NYer, my heart breaks particularly for our friends in Boston.

The Brooklyn Museum projected this image last night:

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1089078/thumbs...e570.jpg?8

(Those of you who know your baseball icons, and rivalries, will recognize the Yankees and Red Sox reference.)
16-Apr-2013 06:49 PM
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1972Murat Offline
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RE: Boston
Condolences to the families affected by this moronic act.
My initial thought was that it is related to the gun debate that is going on, but who knows...

16-Apr-2013 07:28 PM
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tented Offline
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RE: Boston
(16-Apr-2013 07:28 PM)1972Murat Wrote:  Condolences to the families affected by this moronic act.
My initial thought was that it is related to the gun debate that is going on, but who knows...

Maybe ... but I'm still leaning towards it being an individual, or perhaps a small group of guys (2 or 3, perhaps).

If a group had meant it to be a message, then why not come out and declare it an act of theirs, no?
16-Apr-2013 07:33 PM
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Moxie629 Offline
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RE: Boston
(16-Apr-2013 07:33 PM)tented Wrote:  
(16-Apr-2013 07:28 PM)1972Murat Wrote:  Condolences to the families affected by this moronic act.
My initial thought was that it is related to the gun debate that is going on, but who knows...

Maybe ... but I'm still leaning towards it being an individual, or perhaps a small group of guys (2 or 3, perhaps).

If a group had meant it to be a message, then why not come out and declare it an act of theirs, no?

I'm leaning toward a small group of 3-ish...that fancies themselves a movement, but is really just a misguided band of misanthropes. I hope. Since I live in NYC, I'm not really interested in an organized band of terrorists, beyond that.
16-Apr-2013 09:56 PM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: Boston
Apparently they are looking for a "brown-skinned" man. I would imagine the ricin being sent around is related though it could be separate. Between the suspect and the type of material used in the bombs it's looking more and more like the work of a small cell of Islamic terrorists.
17-Apr-2013 06:03 PM
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Moxie629 Offline
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RE: Boston
(17-Apr-2013 06:03 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  Apparently they are looking for a "brown-skinned" man. I would imagine the ricin being sent around is related though it could be separate. Between the suspect and the type of material used in the bombs it's looking more and more like the work of a small cell of Islamic terrorists.

Of course they're looking for a "brown-skinned" man. It's too early to jump to conclusions. They were looking for "brown-skinned" men after the Oklahoma City bombing, too. Which turned out to be separatist, disgruntled white guys. (Woman on the street, when told it was actually white guys from the US said, "Well, thank God it wasn't terrorists." Does that tell you anything about our level of prejudice when something like this happens?) Let's see how this plays out before we make rash judgements. Prejudice could lead us down the wrong path to finding the actual perpetrators.
17-Apr-2013 08:17 PM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: Boston
(17-Apr-2013 08:17 PM)Moxie629 Wrote:  
(17-Apr-2013 06:03 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  Apparently they are looking for a "brown-skinned" man. I would imagine the ricin being sent around is related though it could be separate. Between the suspect and the type of material used in the bombs it's looking more and more like the work of a small cell of Islamic terrorists.

Of course they're looking for a "brown-skinned" man. It's too early to jump to conclusions. They were looking for "brown-skinned" men after the Oklahoma City bombing, too. Which turned out to be separatist, disgruntled white guys. (Woman on the street, when told it was actually white guys from the US said, "Well, thank God it wasn't terrorists." Does that tell you anything about our level of prejudice when something like this happens?) Let's see how this plays out before we make rash judgements. Prejudice could lead us down the wrong path to finding the actual perpetrators.

They found a suspect based on video tape surveillance. I don't remember how McVeigh was caught but I don't think they had surveillance tapes pointing them towards any suspects before that. Maybe they currently have the wrong guy but the FBI and other law enforcement agencies are obviously looking at everything they can get their hands on.

They just recently made an arrest in the 2 ricin cases, saying it was a Mississippi man so it does seem to be unrelated to the Boston bombings but too early to know for sure.
17-Apr-2013 11:06 PM
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johnsteinbeck Offline
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RE: Boston
there was a good write-up by the Washington Post on the whole "brown-skinned man" affair.
18-Apr-2013 06:57 AM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: Boston
(18-Apr-2013 06:57 AM)johnsteinbeck Wrote:  there was a good write-up by the Washington Post on the whole "brown-skinned man" affair.

How the hell is that being insensitive. Should we only identify him as a man wearing blue jeans or a hoodie when it has been 3 days since the attack. Should I be offended if they said they are looking for a white man? The more information the better obviously.
(This post was last modified: 18-Apr-2013 10:03 AM by DarthFed.)
18-Apr-2013 10:02 AM
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shawnbm Offline
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RE: Boston
The PC of recent times is unbelievable. If the video shows a man who is "dark-skinned" it could mean a lot of things--mulatto, mixed Latino, Indian, Semitic--whether Israeli or Arab--black, etc. If that is what is on the image, what is the harm in referring to the obvious in terms of that one general characteristic? It is merely a reference to a possible suspect as depicted on the image, right? It would appear to mean the best evidence they have on the image is that is does not appear to be a person of Teutonic, Anglo-Saxon, Asian or Scandinavian ethnicity. The real problem would be to label him "Arab" or "Muslim" based on his skin color, for one does not equal the other.

Virgil Cane is the name ...
18-Apr-2013 10:30 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Boston
Yeah, that's a great article posted by John Steinbeck showing the absurdity of modern thinking: "a white dark-skinned gender-indeterminate individual" is more or less what they're looking for. I think the mangling of the lingo has gone too far...
18-Apr-2013 11:19 AM
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johnsteinbeck Offline
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RE: Boston
well, i thought the thing is/was that while the anchor says that he basically "is not supposed to say anything at all" about the guy, because the info can turn out wrong and so on... but goes out of his way time and again to emphasize the color of the supposed subject's skin color. he wasn't giving out controlled information that the autorities put out to identify a subject, but was reporting rumours.

if the police are looking for a dark skin male, between 5'10" and 6', aged 24-35, then by all means, report it. if it's just a rumour you were told Not to share, then think twice before giving out details that don't lead anywhere anyway.

that's my take on it.
(This post was last modified: 18-Apr-2013 03:56 PM by johnsteinbeck.)
18-Apr-2013 03:50 PM
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tented Offline
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RE: Boston
(16-Apr-2013 06:49 PM)Moxie629 Wrote:  
(16-Apr-2013 06:12 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  My initial reaction was that it was a domestic group or just one crazy individual acting alone. The White trash, excuse me...white power groups have been causing a lot of mayhem this past year and not just against minorities. Nothing in this country is surprising at this point. Also it seems too small for it to be Al Qaeda. It is tragic regardless and hopefully they get to the bottom of it.

I agree that it's early to make assumptions, but I'd be surprised if it's an individual. And it was tax-deadline day in the US, and Patriot's Day in Boston, so the inclination is to think right-wingers.

"Right-wingers" in this context isn't a fair use of that phrase. If you had used, say, "right-wing extremist group" that would have been better (similar to what you used below). "Right-wingers" is a general term which shouldn't be used to describe terrorists, just as "left-wingers" shouldn't be, either.

Quote: I'm not pointing in a direction, just cautioning those who would go straight to Islamist extremists.

But that's exactly what you just did: point in a direction, i.e. right-wingers.

You're trying to have it both ways here in a do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do manner.
18-Apr-2013 10:05 PM
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