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Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
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jhar26 Offline
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Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
Caro seems to be going from bad to worse. After a great first half of 2011 her slump started at that years FO where Daniela Hantuchova hit her from pillar to post. No worries, so we Woz fans thought because Hantuchova played one of the best matches of her career and clay was never really Caro's best surface anyway. But things didn't really improve much in the months after that. There was reason to believe that it had only been a temporary slump when she won New Haven and got to the semis of the USO. Ok, so we thought - she's back in business. Things however took a serious turn for the worse later that year. And compared to the 2009-2011 timeframe 2012 was a very disappointing year. Every now and then she gave us some hope. She beat Serena Williams in Miami and she won two tournaments to finish the year. This again gave us some hope - "if she can start 2013 like she finished 2012....." Unfortunately, no such luck. 2013 has so far been worse than 2012. There's literally nobody in the top 100 who hasn't got a decent chance of beating her these days, and to my mind everyone in the top 40 goes into a match with her as the favorite, no matter what the rankings may say. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm starting to lose all hope that she will ever be able to turn this around.
07-May-2013 05:39 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
I think her great opportunity was when she was at the top. Serena was absent and there was great opportunity for her to make her mark. I don't have Caro down as a great competitor, a warrior, if you like, she lacks the desire to taste blood, but now her form and confidence have gone too. I really believe that winning a slam back then would have helped her confidence immensely...
07-May-2013 06:30 AM
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britbox Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
I think it's a blip. Caroline needs to get her old man out of her coaching setup though, it rarely works long term.
07-May-2013 06:30 AM
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jhar26 Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
(07-May-2013 06:30 AM)britbox Wrote:  I think it's a blip. Caroline needs to get her old man out of her coaching setup though, it rarely works long term.

I think it's taking too long for it just to be a blip though. Kieran says that her problem, or part of it is that she never was a great competitor. I have to disagree with that. Despite her sweet disposition Caroline used to be a great fighter. If anything, it was her greatest strenght which allowed her to often beat players that stroke for stroke were better than her and she had a great win/loss record in close matches. So much so that whenever it got to 3-3/4-4/ and so on in a three setter I was relatively sure that she would win. But all that seems to be gone now. There's no fight left in her, or so it seems anyway.

I think that her biggest mistake was that I think she let the criticism of pundits, bloggers, ex-players and what have you about her defensive game get to her. As soon as I saw her slapping forehands all over the place late in 2011 I knew that she was in some serious trouble. Later her then coach Riccardo Sanchez even went so far as to say that Caroline's inside-out forehand should become the big weapon in her repertoire. I was like, "are you insane, mate? Who do you think she is, Roger Federer?" He might as well have said that from now on she would be a serve and volleyer, or that Petra Kvitova or Maria Sharapova should build their game around a strong defense.

Since that time there have been coming a lot of contradictory comments from team Woz, including Caro herself. This week she may say that she needs to be more offensive - next week the message may be that she needs to get back to what made her effective in 2009-2011. In short, I only sense confusion. They don't know what to do anymore. And the fact that Caroline doesn't seem to be anywhere near as hungry for success as she used to be does't help matters any either of course.
07-May-2013 07:09 AM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
I don't know, jhar, the flame went out pretty easy on Caro. She may have had some competitiveness when she was on a roll, but she's been like putty to play with ever since. And now she's happy traipsing about behind Rory. She seems like a nice girl who's just fading away a little too easily at the moment. I agree though about her coaching difficulties, and these aren't helped by her dad...
07-May-2013 08:38 AM
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Calvy Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
I truly believe she'll have a career like Jelena, whereas she'll have a nice tourney run here and there, maybe even make a semi of a slam, if the all things fall in place, meaning upsets happening....ala Indian Wells.

Unfortunately, she never had the fear factor that a Serena, Maria or Vika have when facing lower ranked opponents, they all know they can beat her, or they all believe they can beat her. Because of her age, I refuse to say, she's on the downturn, but, her type of game takes a tool on the body in a way that it doesn't for Maria and Serena.
07-May-2013 08:39 AM
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Sundaymorningguy Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
I think if she was smart she would participate in some smaller tournaments and get that winning feeling back in her system. Then work her way into contention again for the bigger titles. It amazes me that she makes it to the finals of Indian Wells, and she doesn't take a positive upturn from that. I was actually pretty surprised that Ana Ivanovic and Jelena Jankovic did not take that route when slumping of participating in smaller tournaments and getting their mojo back so to speak.
07-May-2013 09:27 AM
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jhar26 Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
(07-May-2013 09:27 AM)Sundaymorningguy Wrote:  I think if she was smart she would participate in some smaller tournaments and get that winning feeling back in her system. Then work her way into contention again for the bigger titles. It amazes me that she makes it to the finals of Indian Wells, and she doesn't take a positive upturn from that. I was actually pretty surprised that Ana Ivanovic and Jelena Jankovic did not take that route when slumping of participating in smaller tournaments and getting their mojo back so to speak.
I don't think that the rules allow her to do that though. I don't know them exactly, so I may be wrong, but I think that a top 10 player is only allowed to play two lower tier events per year.
07-May-2013 09:48 AM
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Sundaymorningguy Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
Yeah, I thought of that, and that is unfortunate because we need a lot of these former champs/competitors to get it together and gain their confidence again.
07-May-2013 09:51 AM
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10sfan Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
Woz seems like a nice person, but her game never impressed me. She relies too much on defense. If her opponent played a solid match, Woz lost. If her opponent played badly, Woz won. The outcome was never on her racquet. Her weapons are/were fitness, mental toughness, backhand. Her weaknesses are lack of power and variety, forehand, serve. She just does not have the tools to win a big tournament unless she is lucky, eg, most of the good players are absent or out of form. I think her reaching number one was bad for her and the sport. She is the professional version of a pusher which is why she has been so heavily criticized. It is wonderful that she is happy with Rory. She should play tennis as long as she is enjoying it, but does not belong in the top 10. My apologies to her fans for these words. Again, I think she is a great person and I wish her the best off-court.
07-May-2013 10:39 AM
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Calvy Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
(07-May-2013 10:39 AM)10sfan Wrote:  Woz seems like a nice person, but her game never impressed me. She relies too much on defense. If her opponent played a solid match, Woz lost. If her opponent played badly, Woz won. The outcome was never on her racquet. Her weapons are/were fitness, mental toughness, backhand. Her weaknesses are lack of power and variety, forehand, serve. She just does not have the tools to win a big tournament unless she is lucky, eg, most of the good players are absent or out of form. I think her reaching number one was bad for her and the sport. She is the professional version of a pusher which is why she has been so heavily criticized. It is wonderful that she is happy with Rory. She should play tennis as long as she is enjoying it, but does not belong in the top 10. My apologies to her fans for these words. Again, I think she is a great person and I wish her the best off-court.

She's very reminiscent of Arantxa Sanchez Vicario, but the difference is Arantxa knew when to finish a point. I think she, Caroline, should study Sanchez-Vicario game since they are so similar.
07-May-2013 10:45 AM
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jhar26 Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
(07-May-2013 10:45 AM)Calvy Wrote:  She's very reminiscent of Arantxa Sanchez Vicario, but the difference is Arantxa knew when to finish a point. I think she, Caroline, should study Sanchez-Vicario game since they are so similar.
That's a vey good point, yes. I used to consider Caro a sort of modern day Sanchez myself.
07-May-2013 11:13 AM
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Kiu Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
The good thing is, the lower the valleys, the higher the peaks.
07-May-2013 01:10 PM
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tented Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
(07-May-2013 08:39 AM)Calvy Wrote:  I truly believe she'll have a career like Jelena, whereas she'll have a nice tourney run here and there, maybe even make a semi of a slam, if the all things fall in place, meaning upsets happening....ala Indian Wells.

This does seem to be the current trajectory.

Quote: Unfortunately, she never had the fear factor that a Serena, Maria or Vika have when facing lower ranked opponents, they all know they can beat her, or they all believe they can beat her. Because of her age, I refuse to say, she's on the downturn, but, her type of game takes a tool on the body in a way that it doesn't for Maria and Serena.

Yeah, she's way too young to declare this "the beginning of the end" as the thread's title suggests as a possibility. If anything, it's more like the end of the beginning.
07-May-2013 05:09 PM
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JesuslookslikeBorg Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
wacko caro is too mentally scared to ditch her dad as coach..she couldn't cope when she tried to change things a bit last year and neither could her 'helicopter dad'.

she has jumped the shark, and will continue to be a giggly ball bashing retreiver moorhen that forgets to win stuff.

yep..its a fiasco that keeps on happening.

knowing me alan partridge, knowing you tennis frontier..ah ha.
(This post was last modified: 07-May-2013 08:31 PM by JesuslookslikeBorg.)
07-May-2013 08:30 PM
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Alex Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
I don't think Woz is going to amount to more than whatever level she's playing at now if she doesn't make some vast improvements in her game. She has to develop some sort of weapon. Remember the Indian Wells final this year where she hit literally like two or three winners in the entire match against Masha?!

As a sidenote, I'll never understand all of the vitriol that she gets for her personality. People really, really dislike her. I guess the moral of the story is - don't show to anyone else that you really want to be loved. It's weird, because I thought people (especially guys) liked blondes with nice bodies who are extremely bubbly and friendly. (Now I'm just waiting for someone to reply and say she's physically unattractive...)
07-May-2013 11:11 PM
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jhar26 Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
(07-May-2013 11:11 PM)Alex Wrote:  I don't think Woz is going to amount to more than whatever level she's playing at now if she doesn't make some vast improvements in her game. She has to develop some sort of weapon. Remember the Indian Wells final this year where she hit literally like two or three winners in the entire match against Masha?!

Forget about the likes of a Sharapova, Serena or Azarenka. They are not her problem. Her problem is that these days she's losing to every non-entity out there. Usually she can't string enough wins together anymore to get to the stage where she gets to play the top girls. That's where her level is at now. Although the ranking list tells us otherwise, she's no longer a top 10 player. If she were, say, #80 now there's no way she'd work herself back up into the top 10, or even the top 30 with the state that her game is in. As of now she she still profits from getting a relatively high seeding at tournaments, but if she doesn't sort herself out real soon that won't last for very long anymore.

And all this is not because she hasn't developed that ever elusive weapon. In fact, her trying to develop one might be part of the problem. So what if pundits criticized her defensive game? So what if posters on tennis forums call her a "pusher." Who cares? She was doing great. Perhaps not great enough to win a major (although with her regularly getting to the latter stages of the hardcourt slams she might have had an outside chance of winning one sooner or later), but great enough to become arguably the most despised, ridiculed and hated player in WTA history. That's an honour because it means that she was doing far better that they wanted her to.

But she somehow let the relentless criticism get to her, and the end result is that she neither has a 'weapon' (in fact even her backhand is a lot less potent these days than it used to be) plus she is nowhere near as effective a defensive player as she used to be. She now makes as many errors in a single game on routine shots as she used to make in a set when she was doing well. In other words, forget about a weapon. Her biggest problem is that her core game has become a complete mess. Besides, although it's never credited as such her making a minimum of UE as she was doing during her reign as #1 was a weapon of sorts, especially on the WTA tour where many players are making an almost obscene number of UE. People may have argued that matches were always "on her opponent's racquet," but my reaction to all that when I heard that remark was, "So what? The one you want to win is still going to lose, so perhaps she should get herself a new racquet because this one is not gonna get it done." And 80% of the time I was right. In my modest opinion it's always a mistake to change a winning formula and mess with a players' core game. The way to improve is not by trying to become something you're not but by trying to improve each part of your game by 1% and then by another 1%.

Quote:As a sidenote, I'll never understand all of the vitriol that she gets for her personality. People really, really dislike her. I guess the moral of the story is - don't show to anyone else that you really want to be loved. It's weird, because I thought people (especially guys) liked blondes with nice bodies who are extremely bubbly and friendly. (Now I'm just waiting for someone to reply and say she's physically unattractive...)

There are no doubt several reasons for that, but when all is said and done I think that tells us a whole lot more about "people" than about Caroline Wozniacki. We live in cynical times where every bi... or a..hole is praised for being cool and 'real' while every nice person is ridiculed and criticized for being a fake. But hard as it may seem to believe, there are some genuinely nice people out there - they are a minority perhaps, but they are there. And Caroline happens to be one of them. Pretty much everyone she has worked with, all of the other players, tournament organizers and wta suits, fans who have come in contact with her, and so on all confirm that. When you see documentary footage of when she was 10 or 12 years old she was just as bubbly and sweet as she is now. In other words, it's not just an act. It's how she really is. And people who have a problem with that should pehaps question their own character and not Caroline's.
08-May-2013 03:25 AM
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JesuslookslikeBorg Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
carolied wozniaki is a mess, her game is disintergrating because her poor little head is bouncing in between two blokes,..her boyfriend and her crazy intense mad tennis dad that she is mentally dominated by.

as for personality..please spare me the empty and vapid nonsense..she started forcing herself to be funny (being a fraud) when folk said her post match interviews were duller that the inside of a nuns underpants.

and those that think she is genuine maybe need to look at themselves and ask why they view such vacuous false dribble as somehow representing genuine emotion, when its about as genuine as the mars landing in Capricorn One.

knowing me alan partridge, knowing you tennis frontier..ah ha.
09-May-2013 06:49 PM
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JesuslookslikeBorg Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
(09-May-2013 07:13 PM)jhar26 Wrote:  ^^
Please mate. I'm so used to this type of trash talk from other tennis forums that it bores me to death. If it's something the mods here approve of, no problem, it's their forum - not mine. But in that case I see no reason to waste my time here any longer.

you should think about trash talk yourself...you going on about folk needing to question their character..??, i don't feel the need to question my character for having an opinion that differs from yours..so don't go there.

if you cant cope with the debate at least avoid those sly cheap comments, i've got way more character than you will ever have.

knowing me alan partridge, knowing you tennis frontier..ah ha.
09-May-2013 07:20 PM
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JesuslookslikeBorg Offline
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RE: Wozniacki - a temporary loss of form or the beginning of the end?
(09-May-2013 07:21 PM)jhar26 Wrote:  Ok, good luck with that 'character' you have. Bye.

sort yourself out before you start slagging off other people.

knowing me alan partridge, knowing you tennis frontier..ah ha.
09-May-2013 07:31 PM
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