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Chess World Championship
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
What happened, Darth? I watched up until about an hour ago. It could be Anand loses heavily if he can't win the next game, with white...

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09-Nov-2014 11:43 AM
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Billie Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
Thanks Darth, you should really charge me for answering all my sports questions.:snigger

A last one (for now): who is your favourite?

If your hate could be turned into electricity, it would light up the whole world. NT
(This post was last modified: 09-Nov-2014 12:06 PM by Billie.)
09-Nov-2014 12:05 PM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
I don't really have a current favorite. All time favorite is Kasparov but he retired in 2005.
09-Nov-2014 03:30 PM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
(09-Nov-2014 11:43 AM)Kieran Wrote:  What happened, Darth? I watched up until about an hour ago. It could be Anand loses heavily if he can't win the next game, with white...

I think he is just playing poorly in the middle game so far. Anands only edge would figure to be the opening and he's done well there the first 2 games but he is making errors all over the place after that. It was always going to be an uphill struggle to win the match and surely he has to win one of the next couple games as white otherwise it could turn into another easy match like last year.
(This post was last modified: 09-Nov-2014 03:35 PM by DarthFed.)
09-Nov-2014 03:34 PM
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Kieran (11-09-2014)
Billie Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
(09-Nov-2014 03:30 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  I don't really have a current favorite. All time favorite is Kasparov but he retired in 2005.

And I always wanted Karpov to win. Ras

I can't believe that we almost always support opposite players/teams.Lolz

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09-Nov-2014 07:06 PM
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DarthFed (11-09-2014)
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RE: Chess World Championship
Those matches were before my time but obviously I've gone through their games. I like Karpov a lot too, definitely one of the best ever and his games are probably the most instructive to review. Kasparov was pure attack and calculation, hard for pretty much anyone to understand.
09-Nov-2014 10:27 PM
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Billie (11-09-2014)
Kieran Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
I preferred Kasparov too. Old Greasy Face Karpov always suggested too much of the regime for my sensibilities. Kasparov was also more aggressive, seemingly, and touched by something extraordinary, which is what we expect from our chess Titans...

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10-Nov-2014 01:34 AM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
^ I hear you regarding Karpov. Not sure if you followed what went on during his matches with Korchnoi but it was ugly, not sure you can blame him but rather the Russian government. Karpov was a different kind of genius than Kasparov but he was incredibly good. Chess was robbed of Fischer vs. Karpov and possibly even Fischer vs. Kasparov.
10-Nov-2014 07:08 AM
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Kieran (11-11-2014)
DarthFed Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
Anand rebounded today in a huge way and evened it up at 1.5-1.5 after 3 games. Great attacking play out of the opening. Even though it is just tied Anand has to like the type of games he has gotten as white so far and he was OK out of the opening as black in the game he lost. It is much different than last year's match where he didn't get aggressive until he was down 2 games near the end of the match. This at least makes things a little more interesting.
11-Nov-2014 06:30 PM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
(10-Nov-2014 07:08 AM)DarthFed Wrote:  ^ I hear you regarding Karpov. Not sure if you followed what went on during his matches with Korchnoi but it was ugly, not sure you can blame him but rather the Russian government. Karpov was a different kind of genius than Kasparov but he was incredibly good. Chess was robbed of Fischer vs. Karpov and possibly even Fischer vs. Kasparov.

That's true, especially regarding Fischer-Karpov. I tend to think of the Karpov-Kasparov matches as being chess's equivalent to the Frazier-Ali bloodfests in the seventies. Gruesomely exhausting battles which took everything out of both men - and there was never much between them.

Karpov woulda won a whole lot more fans if she showed a sense of humour and was sponsored by Head & Shoulders. Plotting

Anand bounced back! It's great for the match. I wonder how Carlsen will respond...

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11-Nov-2014 08:09 PM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
Karpov had a fair amount of fans. But he was old school Russian, just an improvement on the generation he followed, the generation that Fischer had defeated. To me that's the main reason Bobby "lost it" and ran away from the chess scene. He wasn't necessarily afraid of Karpov, but he was afraid of what he represented, the new and improved young Russian who would be hunting him instead of vice versa. If it had been Spassky or any of the other old guys who qualified to play Bobby in 1975 I have no doubt he would have played. I'd argue the biggest victim is Karpov himself. Playing Bobby would have forced him to improve and would've made him that much tougher for Kasparov to beat.

Kasparov for better or worse was impossible to ignore, both his behavior and his play. They were quite the contrast and Mother Russia never was able to control him and still can't.
11-Nov-2014 10:12 PM
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Billie Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
^^ That last part is the reason Kieran likes Kasparov so much.:snigger

He is now a Croatian citizen, just found that out. LOL

If your hate could be turned into electricity, it would light up the whole world. NT
(This post was last modified: 11-Nov-2014 11:31 PM by Billie.)
11-Nov-2014 10:31 PM
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Kieran Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
That's part of it, Billie! His hatred of the evil regime. Plus, he was an exciting player, with a whizz bang brain. But Karpov wasn't far off him...

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12-Nov-2014 03:59 AM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
Game 4 was a straightforward draw so it is tied at 2-2 with 8 games left. Anand has to be pleased that he got the lost game right back and drew pretty easily as black today. Already more excitement than last year's match. Carlsen still is clear favorite but not as much as when the match begun...
12-Nov-2014 02:24 PM
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Kieran (11-12-2014)
Kieran Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
Who's got the bigger nerve, Darth? How does Carlsen handle fellers putting it up to him? He's got to be a bit dismayed - he could have been two up, after two...

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12-Nov-2014 04:16 PM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
I wouldn't count on Carlsen being too distraught, but Anand has to be encouraged especially after a disastrous end to the 2nd game. I still think Carlsen wins by 1 or 2 and won't need tiebreaks, but things get especially interesting if Anand is the next one to win.
12-Nov-2014 05:43 PM
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Kieran (11-12-2014)
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RE: Chess World Championship
A draw in the fifth game. They have seven games left to separate them...

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14-Nov-2014 10:43 AM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
Anand had a very good position out of the opening. I think he allowed Carlsen to trade off too many pieces and it left Anand with a better but drawn position. Would be interesting going through with a comp to see if Anand had better options at some point.

I think Anand has a bit of momentum now, in the last 3 games he won easily, then drew easily with black and now got a good attacking position right out of the opening as white...but the score is still tied with 7 games left and 4 whites for Carlsen.
(This post was last modified: 14-Nov-2014 01:39 PM by DarthFed.)
14-Nov-2014 01:38 PM
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GameSetAndMath Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
(14-Nov-2014 01:38 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  Anand had a very good position out of the opening. I think he allowed Carlsen to trade off too many pieces and it left Anand with a better but drawn position. Would be interesting going through with a comp to see if Anand had better options at some point.

I think Anand has a bit of momentum now, in the last 3 games he won easily, then drew easily with black and now got a good attacking position right out of the opening as white...but the score is still tied with 7 games left and 4 whites for Carlsen.

Do you have any estimate of the probability of white winning, when the two players are
roughly equal in caliber. Is it like (ATP) serve game where the server is by and large expected
to win the game? I suppose it is much less chance (white winning the match) in comparison
to server winning a game in tennis (among folks of roughly equal ability).

"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference" - Mark Twain
14-Nov-2014 02:45 PM
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DarthFed Offline
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RE: Chess World Championship
(14-Nov-2014 02:45 PM)GameSetAndMath Wrote:  
(14-Nov-2014 01:38 PM)DarthFed Wrote:  Anand had a very good position out of the opening. I think he allowed Carlsen to trade off too many pieces and it left Anand with a better but drawn position. Would be interesting going through with a comp to see if Anand had better options at some point.

I think Anand has a bit of momentum now, in the last 3 games he won easily, then drew easily with black and now got a good attacking position right out of the opening as white...but the score is still tied with 7 games left and 4 whites for Carlsen.

Do you have any estimate of the probability of white winning, when the two players are
roughly equal in caliber. Is it like (ATP) serve game where the server is by and large expected
to win the game? I suppose it is much less chance (white winning the match) in comparison
to server winning a game in tennis (among folks of roughly equal ability).

Tough to estimate but there are stats from the top programs as to the percentages won/drawn/lost for each opening in their database. So if I am practicing with a program I could often play up to 20 moves and they will have games that match the moves exactly and then give me the % results. Programs are fed thousands and thousands of games played by the professionals since they started keeping notation.

But to answer your question it'd probably be something like 30% win for white, 60% draw and 10% win for black. I'd imagine it'd be around there when we are talking equal competition near the top. Some of the top players of all time would go years without dropping a game as white. Since Carlsen is generally stronger than Anand the % loss for him as white would likely be about 5%, as in you might expect him to lose 1 of 20 games to Anand as white. Also note that the estimates are for top professionals. When you get down to lower levels there will be more mistakes and therefore less draws. And of course if we are talking beginners playing each other it pretty much makes no difference if they play as white or black.
(This post was last modified: 14-Nov-2014 09:37 PM by DarthFed.)
14-Nov-2014 05:00 PM
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